Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

polmaise
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Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by polmaise » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:26 pm

IANative wrote:Thinking ahead to my next dog. I've got a couple decades of experience owning/training/hunting retrievers and flushers, but as I close in on 50, I'm thinking more strategically about what skills/traits I want in my next pup...

1. close-working pointing dog
2. short, no-maintenance coat
3. as low-shedding as possible
4. 50-60 lbs

The pup will be an indoor member of the family, likely the only dog. I'm thinking either a Vizsla or a Pointing Lab. Probably a smaller female. Since I've no background/experience training pointing dogs, she will receive professional training, rather than me just reading a book. I've read that both breeds are close-working dogs, with the Labs being a little more laid-back and methodical, while the Viz's are more driving and energetic. Both are said to be very attached family members. Of course, those could just be gross generalizations.

Those of you who've had experience with both breeds, what would be your recommendation(s), and why?
Your No1 on the list defines a Vizsla
No2 - There is no coat that requires No -maintenance .
No 3 - A lab has a double coat so that rules it out and since the dog is intended to be in the house it will probably shed all the time ,so will the Vizsla,just not as much.
No 4 - The weight will depend on the breed lines and how much food and work balance you put in the dog . In the house of course it has no way of expending that fat/weight to body heat.
Unless you have found a Professional trainer that takes all the dogs in their house ,I'm sure it will acclimatize-- I doubt it. Unless the professional training is house tasks.
...
Yes ,the last comment on your post ,I agree.

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Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by GSP4ME » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:07 am

I'll be following his development (assuming you keep us updated) with great interest, as this is a breed and I suspect from a breeder I've been looking into, that I've got quite a bit of interest in. Best of luck with Gus.

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Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by JONOV » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:15 pm

IANative wrote:Meet Captain Augustus McCrae, or Gus, as we call him...
Hey! That's what I named MY Dog. Imposter :D

Cute pup!

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Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by chwagn11 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:33 pm

Moonshine Ike wrote:hasn't the consistent "pointing lab" been proven to be a hoax?
Yes it is a Hoax!

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Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by AAA Gundogs » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:06 pm

IANative wrote:Am I doing myself a disservice by not considering a Weimaraner?
Few will admit it but the pointing lab is the product Kellogg crossing a lab with a weimaraner. The silver lab popped up in the 2nd generation of pointing labs.

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Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by AAA Gundogs » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:07 pm

nikegundog wrote:
Moonshine Ike wrote:hasn't the consistent "pointing lab" been proven to be a hoax?
Look no further than Kellogg Kennels, the "Real Father" of Silver and American Pointing Labs.
Exactly

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Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:50 pm

Yep, pointing Labs have a history and ancestors just like every other breed and every other animal. Pointing labs are just as much a hoax as our other pointer, setters and retrievers.

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Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by AAA Gundogs » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:14 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Yep, pointing Labs have a history and ancestors just like every other breed and every other animal. Pointing labs are just as much a hoax as our other pointer, setters and retrievers.
I think my problem with pointing labs doesn't have to do with the end product but with registering them as labs because they're weim/lab crosses.

It is the attempt to deceive that I find distasteful.

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Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by IANative » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:52 pm

Are we not talking about two different things when discussing 1- Pointing Labs, and 2- Silver Labs? I've read about the history of the development of the "Silver" lab, but are we saying that the pointing Lab shares the same origins?

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Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:03 pm

AAA Gundogs wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:Yep, pointing Labs have a history and ancestors just like every other breed and every other animal. Pointing labs are just as much a hoax as our other pointer, setters and retrievers.
I think my problem with pointing labs doesn't have to do with the end product but with registering them as labs because they're weim/lab crosses.

It is the attempt to deceive that I find distasteful.
I agree but I also know there were labs that pointed that weren't crossed and also were not related to the English Labs that came later. I agree with the Silver Labs being crossbreds though I have never seen one that pointed.

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Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by ezzy333 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:05 pm

IANative wrote:Are we not talking about two different things when discussing 1- Pointing Labs, and 2- Silver Labs? I've read about the history of the development of the "Silver" lab, but are we saying that the pointing Lab shares the same origins?
Not in my book but that is what some are saying.

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Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by AAA Gundogs » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:08 pm

IANative wrote:Are we not talking about two different things when discussing 1- Pointing Labs, and 2- Silver Labs? I've read about the history of the development of the "Silver" lab, but are we saying that the pointing Lab shares the same origins?
Kellogg used weimaraners to put the point into Labradors and the unexpected byproduct was giving some Labs the dilute gene. Since it's a recessive gene, the silver phenotype wasn't expressed until breeding pointing labs that were dilute carriers.

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Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by nikegundog » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:42 pm

IANative wrote:Are we not talking about two different things when discussing 1- Pointing Labs, and 2- Silver Labs? I've read about the history of the development of the "Silver" lab, but are we saying that the pointing Lab shares the same origins?
Outdoor Life dubbed Mayo Kellogg "The Real Father of pointing labs". Mayo Kellogg also was the founder of the first Pointing Lab club, as well as testing of pointing labs. Kellogg's kennel had Labradors and Weims. Mayo was also the father of Silver Labs. :D And in a genetics test, something like 99% of all Silver Labs can be traced back to two of Kellogg's dogs........ Can you connect the dots?
These are the latest results of the dilutes research in the LabradorNet Database.
There is a total of 2471 dilutes in the database, of which 2454 (99.3%) are verified to be descending from the following dogs:
– Kellogg’s Kernel (6/19/1961)
– Kellogg’s Nick (3/19/1953)
read:https://notosilverlabs.wordpress.com/20 ... oggs-dogs/

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Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by IANative » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:36 am

nikegundog wrote:Outdoor Life dubbed Mayo Kellogg "The Real Father of pointing labs". Mayo Kellogg also was the founder of the first Pointing Lab club, as well as testing of pointing labs. Kellogg's kennel had Labradors and Weims. Mayo was also the father of Silver Labs. :D And in a genetics test, something like 99% of all Silver Labs can be traced back to two of Kellogg's dogs........ Can you connect the dots?
Yes, I understand the genetics. I've read the articles and the websites about the origin of the "silver" lab, but I guess I never read nor made the commonality connection btwn silvers and pointing labs. I've owned a few Kellogg dogs in the past- all yellows- and none of them showed any pointing tendencies. Fantastic waterfowl retrievers, though. I guess my question would be, with the all of the pointing Labs out there today and their tremendous popularity, we're not saying that all of today's pointing Labs are descended from Kellogg's science experiment, are we?

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Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by JONOV » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:23 am

IANative wrote:
nikegundog wrote: Fantastic waterfowl retrievers, though. I guess my question would be, with the all of the pointing Labs out there today and their tremendous popularity, we're not saying that all of today's pointing Labs are descended from Kellogg's science experiment, are we?
I've talked to a couple of trainers that brag they can teach any dog to "point." One said he did it with a Cocker Spaniel to prove the point. I have no idea if it was BS or not, but the trainer was the real deal. Lots of trainers can seemingly force fetch any dog that comes to them regardless of breed.

So, selectively breeding the labs that seem to freeze a little more rather than pounce for the bird? Maybe a possibility.

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Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by nikegundog » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:40 am

IANative wrote:
nikegundog wrote:Outdoor Life dubbed Mayo Kellogg "The Real Father of pointing labs". Mayo Kellogg also was the founder of the first Pointing Lab club, as well as testing of pointing labs. Kellogg's kennel had Labradors and Weims. Mayo was also the father of Silver Labs. :D And in a genetics test, something like 99% of all Silver Labs can be traced back to two of Kellogg's dogs........ Can you connect the dots?
Yes, I understand the genetics. I've read the articles and the websites about the origin of the "silver" lab, but I guess I never read nor made the commonality connection btwn silvers and pointing labs. I've owned a few Kellogg dogs in the past- all yellows- and none of them showed any pointing tendencies. Fantastic waterfowl retrievers, though. I guess my question would be, with the all of the pointing Labs out there today and their tremendous popularity, we're not saying that all of today's pointing Labs are descended from Kellogg's science experiment, are we?
I believe Kellogg laid out the blueprint, and started the demand. Not that difficult to follow the recipe.

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Re: Vizsla or Pointing Lab?

Post by greg jacobs » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:16 pm

I see you came to your senses. Lol. Nice looking pup.

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