GWP vs WPG vs Spinone?

[BrewsterAndMutt]

So I've been starting my research now looking for a new dog to get in the next couple years. For now it's going to be mostly researching breeders and learning about hunt tests and such. Anyways I know I want a versatile and have narrowed it down to these three wirehaired breeds. Living on the New England coast I've determined I need a dog that can handle the cold as I want a duck dog and I spend a lot of time outdoors during the cold months as well. Also New England is mostly thick woods so a closer working dog would be preferable. The dog would also live in the house and like my current dog be a "Go anywhere, do anything dog" so sociability and trainability as also musts. I'm also an active person but not an olympian and there will be lazy days in the house lol. As far as the coat goes I like the tighter coat the GWPs have and worry that the "wooly/shaggy" coats the griff and spinone seem to have will get messy quickly after a day in the woods, I am a dog groomer though so the coats will be maintained properly(stripping, no cutting or conditioner, etc). And lastly I would like to get involved with NAVHDA as well as AKC Hunt Tests with this dog. Which of these breeds do you think I'd have better luck with?


Side not, I've already decided against Drahthaars because they are overkill for my needs I believe and Pudelpointers because there seems to be a lot of inconsistency with coat in this breed.

[Steve007]

Any one of these breeds, if properly selected, will likely turn out well for you. I've never heard of a Spinone as waterfowl dog (they've got quite a coat, and a single coat at that!), but I guess they could. Still, you may as well have a handsome dog (there's more to dogs than birdhunting), and a well-groomed wirehair definitely qualifies. They are very trainable (if you do your share) and excel in a wider variety of dog sports than the others. Further, the greater availability and diversity of good breeders of varying types gives a strong edge to wirehairs.

I'd contact member fuzznut here via PM, as she's incontrovertibly one of the best GWP breeders in the country.

[MonsterDad]

Not all Spinoni have very long coats and they shouldn't. The standard is 1.5 inches. They are excellent retrievers and swimmers and yes they are used for waterfowl. They were among the first NAVHDA dogs invited into the AKC Retriever trials. You should have no issue training a Spinone for waterfowl. They are very resistant to cold mostly due to body mass and not coat.

The three breeds you mentioned are all social but I would rank them this way #1 Spinone, #2 Griff, #3 WPG.

The Spinoni are the most laid back, however, and generally much slower than other dogs.

I have never seen a Spinone start a fight but I have seem some finish them. At 90lbs for a male, it is not pretty if a smaller dog is acting stupid. Spinone have excellent temperaments.

You can contact Jeff & Sue Rhodes at Osage Kennels and see which breeders are active in New England. You can also contact Karen Beyers and Ann Bagnell. They are in Bucks County PA. They have trained many, many AKC Master Hunters and NAVHDA VC's. The dogs bred at Osage tend to have shorter coats and are smaller and more agile.

There is a fantastic trainer in Mass. named Lena Amirian of Trolbo Kennels. She bred and trained some amazing Spins. She holds training events.

[fishvik]

Take this with a grain of salt, but I own a Griff X Lab cross. He is a waterfowl dog and close working pointer. I don't think I've ever lost an upland cripple and very few ducks with him. He naturally backs, was fairly easy to train, and is the friendliest dog I've ever owned. He weighs about 65 pounds.

[mtlee]

This may be a waste of time considering you've eliminated DDs but I can tell you that it sounds like one will meet your needs well (as would well bred members of the other breeds). Not sure why you think they are "overkill."

I got my first DD 14 months ago and I can tell you he is a great dog. Very good temperament and well mannered. He has done well inside since I brought him home and will usually lay down before my 9 yr old Pointer. Travels very well, I drove 8 hours with him in my lap as an 8 week old puppy. Drove him 22 hours to KS at 16 weeks. When we get in the woods he will go hard. He gets along well with my wife's peek-a-poo and my parent's fiest (both 10-15 lb dogs). He is not aggressive at all, he was at a dog park Saturday with 20 + dogs (don't like going to those things but we were out of town and he needed to blow of some steam) and got into zero altercations. He's like a fish in the water....actually he was retrieving next to a lab that day and the guy looks at me and goes "man, he's really good in the water.". He's intact. He's very smart and has been easy to train. He also has a great nose and tons of drive. His coat is short and dense and he has (what I think are good looking) facial furnishings. This breeder puts a lot of emphasis on coat.

Good luck with your selection and sorry to waste your time but I had to stand up for my boy! The picture is a few months old, but not much has changed.

http://www.vomdrakehaus.com/

[BrewsterAndMutt]

This may be a waste of time considering you've eliminated DDs but I can tell you that it sounds like one will meet your needs well (as would well bred members of the other breeds). Not sure why you think they are "overkill."

I got my first DD 14 months ago and I can tell you he is a great dog. Very good temperament and well mannered. He has done well inside since I brought him home and will usually lay down before my 9 yr old Pointer. Travels very well, I drove 8 hours with him in my lap as an 8 week old puppy. Drove him 22 hours to KS at 16 weeks. When we get in the woods he will go hard. He gets along well with my wife's peek-a-poo and my parent's fiest (both 10-15 lb dogs). He is not aggressive at all, he was at a dog park Saturday with 20 + dogs (don't like going to those things but we were out of town and he needed to blow of some steam) and got into zero altercations. He's like a fish in the water....actually he was retrieving next to a lab that day and the guy looks at me and goes "man, he's really good in the water.". He's intact. He's very smart and has been easy to train. He also has a great nose and tons of drive. His coat is short and dense and he has (what I think are good looking) facial furnishings. This breeder puts a lot of emphasis on coat.

Good luck with your selection and sorry to waste your time but I had to stand up for my boy! The picture is a few months old, but not much has changed.

http://www.vomdrakehaus.com/

Theres nothing wrong with DDs, everything I've heard though seems they are much more driven then other Vdogs and sharper with fur. I see a lot of breeders bragging how they use them on hogs, bears, coyotes, and cats as well as birds. Which is awesome but I only need a dog for upland, waterfowl, and possibly some small game, not one who wants to go fight a bear lol. I'm also not crazy about how strict VDD is with registering Drahthaars with other registries as that takes out a lot of other stuff I'd like to do with my dog.

Beautiful dog though! They are really handsome dogs!

[crackerd]

Not all Spinoni have very long coats and they shouldn't. The standard is 1.5 inches. They are excellent retrievers and swimmers and yes they are used for waterfowl. They were among the first NAVHDA dogs invited into the AKC Retriever trials. You should have no issue training a Spinone for waterfowl. They are very resistant to cold mostly due to body mass and not coat.

The three breeds you mentioned are all social but I would rank them this way #1 Spinone, #2 Griff, #3 WPG.

The Spinoni are the most laid back, however, and generally much slower than other dogs.

I have never seen a Spinone start a fight but I have seem some finish them. At 90lbs for a male, it is not pretty if a smaller dog is acting stupid. Spinone have excellent temperaments.

Doesn't have to be a "smaller dog" acting stupid for a spin to finish things in ridding any stupidity shown - or started - in its presence.

Doesn't have to be a dog, period. I was once running another org.'s retriever test with a spin (before they were eligible for AKC retriever hunt tests [not trials, by the way]), and she (the spin) was airing when there came a snarling outburst and next thing she's presenting me (to hand) with an old sow groundhog of a size that leads to their being fondly known as the "Eastern grizzly". That this happened just before she picked up a triple marked retrieve on water made for an interesting coincidence. But what made it more interesting yet was this organization was using Dokkens for the test during a time of avian virus preventing live ducks. When the spin picked up the third Dokken that she was sent for on the triple, she turned immediately and swam - with the Dokken still in her mouth - for a farm goose on the pond about 100 yards away. Undoubtedly mistaking it for one of the hundreds of crippled snow geese (and black geese too)



that she had caught up to during her years as a retriever (originally intended, like the OP's thoughts, as a grouse dog in New England).

As for "excellent temperaments," personable in spades, the spinone. From her quirks and amiable determination to please, I am 99% certain that one of my field trial Labs is my old spinone signora reincarnated - and I always cherish the thought.

MG

[mtlee]

I see a lot of breeders bragging how they use them on hogs, bears, coyotes, and cats as well as birds.
Beautiful dog though! They are really handsome dogs!

Thanks. This reminds me, I had a shorthair that circled a wild hog and would not let it leave one day when we were woodcock hunting. Same dog literally jumped on the back of a wounded deer that was swimming across a pond a start biting it's neck....different day woodcock hunting. Not sure how the DD will be when / if exposed to similar situations. But, I know he doesn't care for cats!