Tekoa Mountain Patriot
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Tekoa Mountain Patriot
I'm a pointer guy but, Tell me about this legendary English Setter. I've heard that he produced a bunch of natural bird finders plus some very good field trial dogs.
Last edited by Moonshine Ike on Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
Never seen him in trials, but obviously from his record he was an excellent walking and horseback trailer.
I have a puppy by Patriot out of Tekoa Mountain Sunrays. I looked at Patriot when he was 10, and Sunrays before the mating to see if I could get an idea of what the puppies might be like.
Patriot was very fast and strong, with very good stamina and almost obsessive prey drive. Huge but controllable range, always out at least to the edge of cover no matter how far that might be. Bird finding ability was good, maybe even excellent after he tired a bit and slowed down. Never saw him retrieve except for one 'hunt dead' lost bird that we never did find. Probably wounded and ran out of the field. He would have hunted all day so we called him off.
Really fun to watch him point, very intense and very solid.
Sunrays was a beautiful, graceful runner, great bird handler, fast and thorough. High tail, natural retriever.
They produced pups that seem to inherit all their best qualities, except that the pups I've seen, including mine, seem to be tougher than their parents, more hard than soft to train.
My pup has never been trialed, He and I have hunted all the grouse species, most of the Quails, Pheasant, Chukar and Partridge over the last 10 years. He is the 11th Setter I've hunted with over the last 40 years and he is the best by far.
I have a puppy by Patriot out of Tekoa Mountain Sunrays. I looked at Patriot when he was 10, and Sunrays before the mating to see if I could get an idea of what the puppies might be like.
Patriot was very fast and strong, with very good stamina and almost obsessive prey drive. Huge but controllable range, always out at least to the edge of cover no matter how far that might be. Bird finding ability was good, maybe even excellent after he tired a bit and slowed down. Never saw him retrieve except for one 'hunt dead' lost bird that we never did find. Probably wounded and ran out of the field. He would have hunted all day so we called him off.
Really fun to watch him point, very intense and very solid.
Sunrays was a beautiful, graceful runner, great bird handler, fast and thorough. High tail, natural retriever.
They produced pups that seem to inherit all their best qualities, except that the pups I've seen, including mine, seem to be tougher than their parents, more hard than soft to train.
My pup has never been trialed, He and I have hunted all the grouse species, most of the Quails, Pheasant, Chukar and Partridge over the last 10 years. He is the 11th Setter I've hunted with over the last 40 years and he is the best by far.
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Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
Rik, sounds like you actually wild bird hunted with both Patriot and that Sunrise daughter, Sunrays. What else can you tell us about those two (looking at getting a pup out of Jettsun, a Patriot/Sammy dog)
Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
I bred my female to Jettsun and had a good litter. My female is Sunrise/Smith bred out of Richie Robertson's stuff (http://pedigree.englishsetters.at/detai ... 354&gens=4). A few weeks ago I called all of the pup owners to ask how the pups were developing and requested some photos. Based on those conversations/photos here are some general observations of the litter: The pups are all very leggy and most have broad chests and nice square heads. Males are between 47-55 lbs and females are between 38-42 lbs. Out of the 10 pups 7 are competition dogs (AF, AKC, and NSTRA). Most of the dogs competing have placements (5 out of the 7) and a couple of them are doing exceptionally well. The other 3 are hunting dogs and those owners are very pleased (one said that his male pup is the best setter he's had in 30 years of owning setters). The pup I kept has always been really good on her birds and was easy to break out. Lots of intensity. She's light on her feet, has not yet knocked a pad, even in chukar country, and goes great in the hills. That said, she is not as aggressive with cover as her mama and tends to circle the outside of thick stuff rather than charge in. Her range is about 200-400 yards and that sounds fairly consistent amongst the litter with the exception of 2 pups that apparently run real big (600+). Of course they're only 2 years old so that could change as they mature. It sounds like all are good bird finders and the pup I kept is probably a little better than her mama in that respect, despite not hitting the cover as hard. About half of the pups point with a nice straight tail and a high head. The other half have varying degrees of curve to their tail and hold their head a little higher than shoulder level. Also, about 6 of the 10 turned out to be natural retrievers (mama is definitely not a consistent natural retriever but will do it on occasion). When I get some time I'll try and post some of the photos I've gotten from pup owners. Without being able to observe all of the pups myself (which I would love to do), if I have any criticism of the litter I would say that I would have liked to have seen a little more consistency in the tails and the head shape (a couple of them look a little "pointy" for my taste). Also, the pup I kept isn't as assertive as I would like and tends to back-off a bit when the going gets tough (although I partially blame my significant other for that because he dotes on her and says "she's too pretty to do that" :roll: ).
I saw Jett run (and win/place) in trials and he is something. Beautiful, big-running, points with a poker-straight tail and a lot of intensity. He's very long-legged and seems to just float over the ground with ease. A very "flashy", athletic, gorgeous dog. There are a few really good setter studs out there so if you've got a nice female don't be afraid to look around a bit but Jettsun is a solid choice for sure. Hope that helps.
Sorry about all the edits. I forgot to mention temperament. All of the pups are allowed in the house to varying extents and they all do well indoors. They are all sweet, easy-going pups and have been described as "happy and hard working". Also, the two that have been tested at this point have come back with OFA "good" hips and "normal" elbows.
I saw Jett run (and win/place) in trials and he is something. Beautiful, big-running, points with a poker-straight tail and a lot of intensity. He's very long-legged and seems to just float over the ground with ease. A very "flashy", athletic, gorgeous dog. There are a few really good setter studs out there so if you've got a nice female don't be afraid to look around a bit but Jettsun is a solid choice for sure. Hope that helps.
Sorry about all the edits. I forgot to mention temperament. All of the pups are allowed in the house to varying extents and they all do well indoors. They are all sweet, easy-going pups and have been described as "happy and hard working". Also, the two that have been tested at this point have come back with OFA "good" hips and "normal" elbows.
Last edited by Gertie on Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
I have never seen Patriot myself, but have coming 8 year old son of his, out of a Berg Bros dam. My dog broke easily and has retained everything over the years, and I can count on one hand his mistakes in trials. He's extremely steady and trustworthy. Medium to shortish shooting dog range but some spectacular casts depending on the territory. Scary athletic.
AKC FC/AFC very easily. I would run him AF CHs but his tail can be too sickled sometimes. He's a very nice dog to have around our home. We nickname him Happy because he just is.
I'd take another in a heartbeat.
AKC FC/AFC very easily. I would run him AF CHs but his tail can be too sickled sometimes. He's a very nice dog to have around our home. We nickname him Happy because he just is.
I'd take another in a heartbeat.
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Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
I have a 3 year old female with Patriot on both sides within 2 generations. She has huge natural range 500 yards+ but very biddable if you need her in close. She has aggressive bird finding ability, will bust cattails for pheasants and has the obsessive prey drive of her grandfather. Long legs and big feet, weighs in at 60 lbs. She retrieves about 75% and will hunt and find 100% cripples in all kinds of cover. She carries a high tail and head naturally. She does not have good heat tolerance maybe because of her size. I would say on the soft side as far as pressure goes. I don't trial, just try and hunt her as much as possible. She is dismaying maybe to some because of her range and hard charging running style but I've never found so many birds and had as much fun as I've had with this setter.
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Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
I would love to hear the who, where, etc about your dog. While she's big for me, I like dogs that are stacked top/bottom on PatriotLeeza wrote:I have a 3 year old female with Patriot on both sides within 2 generations. She has huge natural range 500 yards+ but very biddable if you need her in close. She has aggressive bird finding ability, will bust cattails for pheasants and has the obsessive prey drive of her grandfather. Long legs and big feet, weighs in at 60 lbs. She retrieves about 75% and will hunt and find 100% cripples in all kinds of cover. She carries a high tail and head naturally. She does not have good heat tolerance maybe because of her size. I would say on the soft side as far as pressure goes. I don't trial, just try and hunt her as much as possible. She is dismaying maybe to some because of her range and hard charging running style but I've never found so many birds and had as much fun as I've had with this setter.
Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
Legendary? Tekoa Mountain Sunrise is legendary as is Hick's Rising Sun and Shadow Oak Bo, Patriot was a very nice dog.
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Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
How would you know?Soignie wrote:Legendary? Tekoa Mountain Sunrise is legendary as is Hick's Rising Sun and Shadow Oak Bo, Patriot was a very nice dog.
Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
because I saw them all and had offspring of them all
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Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
Ok. Tell us about them. I would love to hear firsthand accounts of sunrise. Risins sun. Bo. And patriotSoignie wrote:because I saw them all and had offspring of them all
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Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
Has Bo produced any winning AA dogs yet? From what I have seen he produces really flashy SD and gun Dogs but I wouldn't say he produces better than himself. Good dog but legendary?
Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
the list of all-age setters today is a short one, the simple fact that Bo won the National Championship twice (and will go straight to the Hall of Fame when that time comes) makes him legendary in my opinion.
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Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
I thought you were an eyewitness to Sunrise, Rising Sun, Bo and Patriot. Don't deflect, tell us about these dogs, SoingieSoignie wrote:the list of all-age setters today is a short one, the simple fact that Bo won the National Championship twice (and will go straight to the Hall of Fame when that time comes) makes him legendary in my opinion.
Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
I was and of many more, I share my stories with friends and those who I judge have a serious interest you don't fit in either category
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Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
I'll take it that the answer is no, you don't have any first hand experience with the mentioned dogs, yet you voluntarily jumped into this thread.Soignie wrote:I was and of many more, I share my stories with friends and those who I judge have a serious interest you don't fit in either category
Thanks for the other replies, folks! Especially from the person who actually hunted with both Patriot and the Sammy female! I'm looking at getting a pup out of Jettsun via a T's Gunslinger female. Any insight on this Gunslinger dog?
Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
Slinger was a nice dog with a lot of promise/potential prior to being injured, I could tell you some stories about him too, but I won't.
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Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
In racehorse breeding there is a saying.... winning gives one hope that they have a great horse but you only know after breeding.RyanDoolittle wrote:Has Bo produced any winning AA dogs yet? From what I have seen he produces really flashy SD and gun Dogs but I wouldn't say he produces better than himself. Good dog but legendary?
I have not seen any AA dogs out of Bo.
Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
And some of us would like that and some don't. I would never use that as a measuring stick as to the quality of the dog. My choice is a dog that produces a gundog type that is biddable and finds birds. And I am not saying an AA dog never has those qualities but is just my preference in dogs.
Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
Hey Mike! We sure missed having you judge our championship for us here this fall - hope all's well! We'll get you next year!! I know Talmage was looking forward to judging with you...would've spared you having to Google all the info on his dogs! Poser!Soignie wrote:Slinger was a nice dog with a lot of promise/potential prior to being injured, I could tell you some stories about him too, but I won't.
Maybe that bar is too low for those here on the GDF Mike but I gotta agree - legend!the simple fact that Bo won the National Championship twice (and will go straight to the Hall of Fame when that time comes) makes him legendary in my opinion.
Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
You are right guys. Says a lot when they repeat at that level. The best Britt I ever saw was Bandee and he was our National Fld Ch and Show Ch I year and was almost unbeatable for a couple of years
Ezzy
Ezzy
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Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
I'll take it that the answer is yes.Moonshine Ike wrote:I'll take it that the answer is no, you don't have any first hand experience with the mentioned dogs, yet you voluntarily jumped into this thread.Soignie wrote:I was and of many more, I share my stories with friends and those who I judge have a serious interest you don't fit in either category
Re: Tekoa Mountain Patriot
I concur.greg jacobs wrote:I'll take it that the answer is yes.Moonshine Ike wrote:I'll take it that the answer is no, you don't have any first hand experience with the mentioned dogs, yet you voluntarily jumped into this thread.Soignie wrote:I was and of many more, I share my stories with friends and those who I judge have a serious interest you don't fit in either category