Need help/advice

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Jonjhawk
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Need help/advice

Post by Jonjhawk » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:52 am

Went out this weekend for opening weekend for Kansas. Having a good morning, not seeing to many birds but dog was working the field perfectly. Then we ran into some cows on the wiha we were at and they spooked the dog. He stopped hunting wouldn't range that far ahead was just acting differently. We noticed this and went to put him back in the car and a covey flushed. We shot st the covey and continued to walk to the car to put the dog in his kennel. A single flushed way ahead but this time the dog came running back to me. He was introduced to a gun by going 22 far away then gradually increase then 20 gauge far away then gradually increased then 12 gauge far away and gradually increased then 1 shot with a 20 gauge and another with a 12 gauge then 2 with a 12 gauge And a 20 gauge then eventually 3 with a 12 gauge. We've also shot quail and pigeons over him before. My concern is if this outing with the cows made him gunshy and what do I do now to make sure he still loves birds, a couple bump and chase sessions or what?

V-John
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Re: Need help/advice

Post by V-John » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:16 pm

How many is "we" when you say you shot at a covey that got up going back to the truck?

This is another reason why I gun break dogs while chasing birds. So the relationship from gunfire to birds is there... And not just an arbitrary loud noise that is brought closer to the dog.
I've never heard of a cow causing gunshyness, but maybe I'm misreading the post?

Vizsla, right?

If it were me, I'd start all over chasing birds and a light caliber blank gun or something not real loud, while chasing a bird.

And maybe it isn't gunshyness. Did you guys shoot at the single that caused the dog to come back?

Too many people are too concerned with killing birds over young dogs it seems when the focus should be on the young dog learning the ropes and having fun.

Jonjhawk
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Re: Need help/advice

Post by Jonjhawk » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:09 pm

2 people shot, only hunt with 3. nobody shout at the single. and that is how I gun broke him while he was chasing birds. and yes a vizsla. Also, i'm trying to make sure its still fun for him and thats why i'm asking to make sure it stays fun.

V-John
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Re: Need help/advice

Post by V-John » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:27 pm

Jonjhawk wrote:2 people shot, only hunt with 3. nobody shout at the single. and that is how I gun broke him while he was chasing birds. and yes a vizsla. Also, i'm trying to make sure its still fun for him and thats why i'm asking to make sure it stays fun.
Ah. You didn't say that is how you gun broke him in the original post.

On the other forum you said you hunted him on Sunday and the last hunt of the day he did fine? Or did I misunderstand that?

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Sharon
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Re: Need help/advice

Post by Sharon » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:29 pm

Jonjhawk wrote:what?
"we ran into some cows on the wiha we were at and they spooked the dog. He stopped hunting wouldn't range that far ahead was just acting differently. We noticed this and went to put him back in the car and a covey flushed. We shot st the covey and continued to walk to the car to put the dog in his kennel. A single flushed way ahead but this time the dog came running back to me."[/quote]
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I'd say it was just an overload of being spooked - cows . Unlucky.
I'd bet he didn't run back because of the shot, but because he thought the cows might show again.
Go back to taking it easy with the gun and things should be fine. I wouldn't go back to that cow spot.
Last edited by Sharon on Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jonjhawk
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Re: Need help/advice

Post by Jonjhawk » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:34 pm

V-John wrote:
Jonjhawk wrote:2 people shot, only hunt with 3. nobody shout at the single. and that is how I gun broke him while he was chasing birds. and yes a vizsla. Also, i'm trying to make sure its still fun for him and thats why i'm asking to make sure it stays fun.
Ah. You didn't say that is how you gun broke him in the original post.

On the other forum you said you hunted him on Sunday and the last hunt of the day he did fine? Or did I misunderstand that?
yes. Sunday morning we went out to 2 fields. the first field again there were cows so he was a little off but then the last field he was back to normal, ranging out far being bold and everything. The last day we didnt kick up any birds but nobody we talked to had much success. My plan right now is to let him do a couple bump and chase and shoot the gun from a distance and move in before i go back out in the field with him.

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DonF
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Re: Need help/advice

Post by DonF » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:32 pm

Sharon wrote:
Jonjhawk wrote:what?
"we ran into some cows on the wiha we were at and they spooked the dog. He stopped hunting wouldn't range that far ahead was just acting differently. We noticed this and went to put him back in the car and a covey flushed. We shot st the covey and continued to walk to the car to put the dog in his kennel. A single flushed way ahead but this time the dog came running back to me."
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I'd say it was just an overload of being spooked - cows . Unlucky.
I'd bet he didn't run back because of the shot, but because he thought the cows might show again.
Go back to taking it easy with the gun and things should be fine. I wouldn't go back to that cow spot.[/quote]

This would be my though too!

Jonjhawk
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Re: Need help/advice

Post by Jonjhawk » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:53 pm

I'd say it was just an overload of being spooked - cows . Unlucky.
I'd bet he didn't run back because of the shot, but because he thought the cows might show again.
Go back to taking it easy with the gun and things should be fine. I wouldn't go back to that cow spot.[/quote]

This would be my though too![/quote]

good to hear. we will be avoiding spots with cows for a while!

marysburg
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Re: Need help/advice

Post by marysburg » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:17 pm

Instead of avoiding cattle, you could set up training outings using planted birds that you flush and let the dog chase. Use the wind in your favour and put the cattle upwind of the training exercise, and let the dog see them as well. Maybe an association will form between cattle and fun birds in your dog's mind, just like the association between the gun and birds. You have an opportunity here to teach your dog what you expect him to do in the presence of cattle, rather than setting up a situation which you may need to avoid for years. When your dog learns to ignore cattle, it may teach him to ignore deer, horses, and elk.

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Sharon
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Re: Need help/advice

Post by Sharon » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:35 pm

Interesting "other perspective" Marysburg.

I had a JRT that loved the dog parks. One day it was very windy and the chairs were flying all over the place. He got spooked and wouldn't leave my side ; same problem at subsequent visits even though the days were calm. I had to set up that scenario in my backyard , with my husband's help, to get the dog over his fear. I'm sure the neighbours thought we were totally crazy. :roll:

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tekoa
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Re: Need help/advice

Post by tekoa » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:14 pm

I had a similar experience that just seems to demonstrate how different dogs can be from one another. My two setters and I busted up a covey of Huns. most of them headed over a small hill into a meadow with about 10 head of cattle. I popped over the hill to see Molly being chased by a steer and in full panic flight, while her brother Jack was on point standing under the belly of another steer. Molly was spooky the rest of the day, wouldn't hunt, startled at gun fire and ultimately wouldn't leave my side. Jack seemed never to notice anything except birds.

Over the next couple of weeks I made repeated trips to a preserve, bought a bunch of birds and let Molly chase, hunt, point, and retrieve as many as we could find. She got all fired up about birds again, and when we returned to the scene of the crime she took no notice of the cows and hunted her heart out. Meanwhile, Jack,, my FC, who I never thought I'd have to worry about, has taken an unhealthy interest in frogs in the stock tank and is stuck in the mud, forcing me to wade through the muck to pull him out. Dogs! You got to love em.......

Somebody once said that the answer to every problem a bird dog has is more birds.............

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Re: Need help/advice

Post by Trekmoor » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:33 am

I agree that this was a reaction to the cattle. Unfortunately the dog may , for a while, link cattle to gunshots but if enough birds can be found away from cattle to begin with then I think the dog will "come good" if it hasn't already done so.

I got my first pup when I was 14 years old, a little border collie bitch about 11 weeks old. I took her out a few days after I got her onto the tow-path of a canal for a walk and it never occurred to me that the racing boats/canoes that had about 10 oars each and which travelled up the canal far faster than a man could walk would frighten my pup. I knew boats had to stay in the canal but the pup did not know that. A boat came racing along the canal with it's oars flashing and splashing and with the cox bloke yelling through a trumpet thingy.

To the pup it must have looked like a monster coming to get her so she ran off with the boat in close "pursuit." I lost her , she'd managed to find a way off the tow path . I searched for her the rest of that day and skipped school the following day to look for her and I found her about a mile from the canal trotting down a road looking very worried. She got over her scare but she always kept her fear of approaching boat traffic to some degree and linked the "place" ,the canal, to her fears.
I think many dog owners could tell similar stories.

Bill T.

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