Best breed for beginner?

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Kaianuanu
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Best breed for beginner?

Post by Kaianuanu » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:37 pm

I have a rescued EP that just doesn't hold a point too well, I'm still a rookie trainer but might be moving to New Zealand soon and won't be able to bring her with me. Quail, pheasants, and rabbits are plentiful there, and I'd love to have a good dog to hunt over there. What pointing breed do you think is the easiest to train and has a strong desire to please? I would really like a close to medium ranging dog that has a natural desire to retrieve and please. I really want a drahthaar but I'm afraid That may be a bit too much dog for me to handle like my current pointer.

Bekahtsa
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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by Bekahtsa » Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:46 am

NZed ... there are a few good dogs out there.

You may find having worked with the rescue EP, a better bred dog is easier to handle/train right away.

You forgot Canadian geese, ducks, turkeys, deer, possums, rabbits, pigs, goats and the list goes on. I'd be inclined to go towards a Utility gun-dog breed due to the variety of game that can be hunted. The hunting in NZed is going to blow you away ... be prepared! :lol:
Cheers...

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bustingcover
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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by bustingcover » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:01 am

Lab. Amazing desire to please, I've seen rescues turn into great hunting dogs. Close working, strong retrievers, and some of them will even pause for you now a days.

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Sharon
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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by Sharon » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:03 pm

Kaianuanu wrote:I have a rescued EP that just doesn't hold a point too well, I'm still a rookie trainer but might be moving to New Zealand soon and won't be able to bring her with me. Quail, pheasants, and rabbits are plentiful there, and I'd love to have a good dog to hunt over there. What pointing breed do you think is the easiest to train and has a strong desire to please? I would really like a close to medium ranging dog that has a natural desire to retrieve and please. I really want a drahthaar but I'm afraid That may be a bit too much dog for me to handle like my current pointer.
Welcome to the forum .

answer : a dog that is well bred and whose parents are proven effective bird dogs- assuming you are hunting for birds ; see the parents work. No breed can do everything well imo.

Makintrax73
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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by Makintrax73 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:39 am

Get a started dog. Ask to run it on birds without a collar. Be critical. Does it hunt with the handler without much hacking, in comfortable range, find birds, and return to kennel without too much fuss? Any sign of gunshyness? Now ask a pro for help when needed to finish to whatever standard you prefer.

berk
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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by berk » Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:07 pm

Lab. Much easier to train.

KCKLH
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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by KCKLH » Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:41 pm

In terms of easiness to train?
Well setters tend to mature a little later so they're out.
EPs love to hunt but won't necessarily do it to please their owner.
Frankly I wouldn't suggest putting out a long range breed in hog territory which I believe most of NZ is. Hey that's just me being a worry wort though.
Labs generally don't point and often don't point as good as other breeds when they do. They are probably the most trainable though.
GSPs will either outsmart a rookie trainer or will be exactly what you need.
Brittanies are often a good option. Small, trainable, eager to please.

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Sharon
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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by Sharon » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:47 pm

KCKLH wrote:In terms of easiness to train?
Well setters tend to mature a little later so they're out.
EPs love to hunt but won't necessarily do it to please their owner.
Frankly I wouldn't suggest putting out a long range breed in hog territory which I believe most of NZ is. Hey that's just me being a worry wort though.
Labs generally don't point and often don't point as good as other breeds when they do. They are probably the most trainable though.
GSPs will either outsmart a rookie trainer or will be exactly what you need.
Brittanies are often a good option. Small, trainable, eager to please.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Welcome to the forum and I hate to disagree but :)

Never found that to be the case. A setter would be ideal for pheasant and rabbit as mentioned by the OP

JONOV
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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by JONOV » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:38 am

I have a GWP and it is my first dog. I don't think its too much dog...If he gets exercise he's well mannered in the house and I have found most training to be relatively easy.

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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by birddogger2 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:34 am

A well bred pointer comes out of the birth canal with more natural ability to find birds than most folks could ever need.
The exact same thing can be said about well bred English Setters, GSP's or Brittanies.

All of the above breeds are bred to point birds. Getting a dog to reliably point birds is much more of a training task than getting a dog to flush and chase birds, such as what can b e expected of a lab. So...yes, getting a lab to hunt upland game for you successfully is generally far less demanding of the trainer.

A rescue dog is someone's throw away. The reason why the dog was a throw away is kinda key, because about half the equation depends on the dog. The other half depends on the trainer. so if you have a rescue dog that was hard to train and an inexperienced trainer...well that is simply a prescription for failure.

I have had pointer pups that pointed their FIRST or SECOND bird and never chased...but they were brought along slowly and carefully. That takes time, effort and patience.

RayG

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Gertie
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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by Gertie » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:01 pm

So it sounds like you're looking to get rid of the dog you have so you can move to New Zealand and then you want to get another dog once you get there? Are you sure you're going to be in New Zealand for the entire lifetime of the new dog (14 year commitment if you get a pup)? Just my two cents but maybe you should make friends with someone to hunt with in New Zealand that has a dog and give it some time before you jump into getting another one. I know a couple of folks who moved down there thinking they'd stay forever and wound up back in the states within a couple years. Don't mean to sound "preachy" but if I were you I'd give it some time to get settled (at least a couple years) before you involve another dog. Once you decide that you're going to plant some roots, I'd get a lab to start out with. Easy to train and can be very versatile. I'd stay away from Draughts until you are a very confident trainer (those dogs test a couple guys I know that have had that breed for 20 years :lol: ). Again, not meant to be a lecture, I was a wanderer for a good 15 years of my life and I don't regret a second of it. Best of luck to you.

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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by setterpoint » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:24 pm

i would go with a started dog some times training a dog can be a lot of work and time esp. for never realy trained a dog befour

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AZ Brittany Guy
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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:00 pm

berk wrote:Lab. Much easier to train.
Does it point?

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asc
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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by asc » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:42 am

I'm not much of a trainer but to me that is the best part of the deal. :D

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MNTonester
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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by MNTonester » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:55 am

I'm guessing you're looking strictly for a pointer? If not, a sweetheart of a dog that aims to please and requires little training would be a Springer Spaniel

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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by polmaise » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:32 pm

Kaianuanu wrote:I have a rescued EP that just doesn't hold a point too well, I'm still a rookie trainer but might be moving to New Zealand soon and won't be able to bring her with me. Quail, pheasants, and rabbits are plentiful there, and I'd love to have a good dog to hunt over there. What pointing breed do you think is the easiest to train and has a strong desire to please? I would really like a close to medium ranging dog that has a natural desire to retrieve and please. I really want a drahthaar but I'm afraid That may be a bit too much dog for me to handle like my current pointer.
Vizsla should do well in New Zealand.

Ms. Cage
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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by Ms. Cage » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:19 pm

The breed you want is the best breed of the beginner.

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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by Trekmoor » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:58 am

I'd go for a GSP with a Brittany or a vizsla as second choice. Vizslas tend to hunt close and are seldom hard headed dogs. Brittanies seem to vary a lot in how widely they hunt but they do hunt well and GSP's I have never had a problem training .....but I know folk who have found them "too much dog !"

Bill T.

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Featherfinder
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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by Featherfinder » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:38 am

There are shooters and there are impassioned bird dog connoisseurs. The shooters see a dog as a medium for their true passion, which is providing birds within gun range. Their motto might be, "If it flies, it dies." Competent pointing dogs are not supposed to work "within gun range" they are supposed to take you to birds but I digress. (I'm not talking about flushers.) Shooters measure their successes by number of birds killed or how many shells fired at birds they could have killed.
The bird dog aficionado has developed a palate for the manner in which a dog(s) applies itself, it's gait, it's style on point, it's manners in general especially on bird finds. The more you elevate that expectation the more you end up towards one of only two breeds.
ALL well-bred AND well-trained bird dogs breeds should do a decent job. The more you lean towards my definition of the shooter's aspirations, the easier it is to achieve your target/goals.
In my opinion, Gertie makes a very salient comment. Get to NZ, find someone to hunt with FIRST and then mull over your options. The terrain, the quarry, the expectations may be significantly diverse from what your current experiences have been. That of itself, will contribute to your final decision.
It's not something I would decide here/up front, if I were you.
Even within a single breed here in N/A you can find GSPs and GSPs. They might be called the same but there is a significant variance in both capability and expectation. To pick something that will work for you in NZ from dogs in NZ might best be saved for later on when you see what you have to chose from.

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DougB
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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by DougB » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:27 am

If you know someone in NZ, ask them what dogs are popular with hunters. Also ask about dog laws. Different country, different cultures, different laws.
It might be easier to just wait and get a local dog.
https://www.petrelocation.com/country/new-zealand
If the following criteria have been fulfilled, the quarantine period for a dog or cat entering New Zealand is 180 days. Most (170) of these days can be completed in the country of origin, however there is a minimum 10-day quarantine for all live animals entering the country.

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bonasa
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Re: Best breed for beginner?

Post by bonasa » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:45 pm

I'm partial to english pointers and have had some that pointed rabbits. You could train for rabbit pointing, thats no problem. Not holding point so well could be the dog caught birds, or has not had a lot of birds shot over it. Just hunt it more and shoot only points. Getting a dog to find game and point it is the easy part, what it does after it establishes point is where the training comes in and how far you want to take it. Safety's sake I would focus on having a dog steady until the shot is fired. Just be consistent in what you want the dog to do.

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