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Help me decide...

Help me decide...

Postby mountaindogs » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:40 pm

I have been on the list for a female lab puppy from a particular breeder for ages. Most of the wait is because I wanted a puppy with enough outcross to consider breeding to my male. If they match well in all else. Litter was born and only 2 females. Both the breeder and stud dog owner (co-breeder) have decided to keep a female. The next litter he has coming up in about 2 months will be too tight to my male for breeding but a really nice litter. Breeder offered to put me first on that litter (he chooses for owners). He does not have another litter with enough outcross again for at least a year. He also recommended another breeder who has outcross lines with similar dual type that I wanted. But no guarantee that they will have an opening - he didn't know. Should I switch to the other breeder's litters with a female that maybe could be a match for my male or stay with the breeder I know with a breeding very likely to produce a dog I like because so closely related to my male, but would have to breed outside the lines.

The lines on my boy are CH/MH breeding and He is HR and RE titled, about to run Rally Nationals this next weekend, has a UKC conformation group2 win... and we are working towards HRCH and MH by this fall I hope. He is running triples and long blinds but we have some lining kinks to work through. Running HRC before the AKC. He is also CHIC certified. Everyone jumps on these type posts with "get a better dog don't breed to your male just for a puppy" type answers so...
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Re: Help me decide...

Postby ezzy333 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:14 pm

My only question is what is the breeding tht you are saying is too tight? Everyone has a different opinion on that and was curious what you feel is too tight.
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Re: Help me decide...

Postby mountaindogs » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:02 pm

fairly tightly related half siblings on this close one. The breeder felt it was too tight and since he has had these lines and line bred them for 25 years or so, I am trusting him. :)

I see breedings that tight in GSPs but only from people who really know their lines!
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Re: Help me decide...

Postby mountaindogs » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:03 pm

Next year he has one that would be a double bred granddaughter to my dogs father.
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Re: Help me decide...

Postby polmaise » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:38 pm

Line breeding would a breeders art.
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Re: Help me decide...

Postby mountaindogs » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:29 am

So regardless of whether it's too tight or not, let's assume I won't do the tight breedings. My question is should I get the puppy that, if breeding worthy, would need an outside male OR look into a female from other lines but with a few dogs in common way back?
Sigh. You know decisions are not ever easy for me but I think either puppy would be fun. I just know the teamwork and biddabity in my male is just amazing. And I have had lots of dogs over the years.
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Re: Help me decide...

Postby Timewise65 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:07 am

Here is how I check out the genetics on my retrievers before I consider a litter...You also can find some history on the breeding lines longevity.

For most registered hunting line of retrievers you can go to this website and look up the dogs you are looking at. http://k9data.com
When you open the website you will see a place to put the dog’s name that you want to look at. I usually look at the bitch and Sire of a litter I am considering. When putting names into this, DO NOT INCLUDE TITLES ONLY FULL REGISTERED NAME!

Aside from seeing a five generation history, you can also look at siblings, other litters, health certifications, etc.
But if you go to the Genetics section (listed as an option on the bottom of the first page that pulls up when you put the dog’s name…open this up and you will get …the example is for one of my dogs…(The example is one of my dogs) You can search the internet for more information on how to understand this data...

Genetic information for Doublegold's Spirit of Maximillion
Number of offspring in database: 0
Number of full siblings in database: 2

The COI (Coefficient of Inbreeding) is calculated up to a maximum of 12 generations. However, if a generation is found where fewer than 75% of the dogs in that generation are known, the calculation stops just short of that generation. So if all dogs are known in the 5th generation but only half of them are known in the 6th generation, a 5-generation COI will be calculated. For dogs with more than 10 generations of pedigree information available, a 10-generation COI is also calculated for comparison and statistical purposes.
The COI is calculated entirely from the pedigree information present in the database, so if there are inaccuracies in the pedigree, there will also be inaccuracies in the COI. COIs are calculated in batches about once a month, so the current COI may not reflect recent pedigree changes. Accuracy of the COI is not guaranteed.
10-generation COI 7.78% (✓ less than breed average of 8.71%)
12-generation COI 8.59%
* Breed average is calculated by averaging the 10-generation COIs of dogs in k9data born after the year 2000.
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