When should I start gun shooting around my 12 week old GSP

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BellaAndoverNJ
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When should I start gun shooting around my 12 week old GSP

Post by BellaAndoverNJ » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:13 am

Guy's I'm a new owner of a female 12 week old GSP had her from 8 weeks . She is doing great with site stay come and is finding Pheasant wings and bumpers with Pheasant scent on them. When should you start with gun firing around them . And for other GSP owners when will she point on Pheasant wings she finds them in brush but not pointing she points for bugs LOL

GSPONPOINT32
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When should I start gun shooting around my 12 week old GSP

Post by GSPONPOINT32 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:00 am

Find a proven program and study it. Trust me...it makes the process much easier and you will save time.

I've used Hickox and the Smith series of DVD. I found both easy to follow. I also watched a series of YouTube videos by Brad Higgins of Higgins gun dogs that offered an alternative approach to training. I found his videos very informative and easy to follow as well. He's a member on this forum FYI.

A good starter book to read in a few hours is Gun Dog by Richard Wolters. It's an old book but I found a lot of parallels between it and the modern training methods.

My answer to your question is to find your own answer.


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Timewise65
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Re: When should I start gun shooting around my 12 week old GSP

Post by Timewise65 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:04 am

I always wait until they are 8*12 months, error on the side of 12 months as maturity level is important here.

To be safe, I start them out by going to a local Skeet/ Trap club that has a large open, cut grass field that is about 100 yds. away from the shooting. I go their and do my normal field training routine and slowly over 2-3 weeks move closer and closer to the firing area. When we get so we are standing at the beginning of the parking lot (Maybe 30 yds. from the guns) then when the dog is not reacting to the gun fire, I will then after training, when she is calmed down from running, I will walk her on lead, at heal around the parking lot. After a few tries she will completely ignore the gun fire...then and only then is she ready to have a gun shot over her.....

I have been told if you mess them up on the first time you expose them to gun fire, it takes forever to get them to not to be gun shy. I have also went to hunt tests where guns are being fired out in the field. Walking around with the dog on lead here is also good first exposure to gun fire.....Also, be careful on the Forth of July. If you live in an area where fireworks that make noise are used protect your dog from the noise. Many dogs become gun shy by being exposed to fireworks when young....

My best advise is do not rush into this wait until the dog is matured. Then do a series of baby steps and let the dogs reactions be your guide. Some of my dogs adapted quickly, some where a bit slower....

Good Luck

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Featherfinder
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Re: When should I start gun shooting around my 12 week old GSP

Post by Featherfinder » Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:33 am

You can start a shot or two around your dog (and watch the reaction) but only when the dog has been introduced to birds and is chasing birds with gusto. This way, birds=guns=birds. I have tried MANY other methods and this one where birds are the prime subject works flawlessly. I also recommend a .410 with light target loads or better yet .410 blanks over a blank gun with .22 blanks. Shotguns especially in the diminutive gauges with light loads typically make a softer "fooom" sound (if you know what I mean) where-by .22s make more of a cutting "crack". I just like to play it safe so I'm not starting out with an issue especially since it will end up being my issue to resolve!
Do not make any eye contact or say ANYTHING (not even "good boy") after you shoot. Stare at the bird or the horizon and keep walking. Pup may turn after the shot to check on YOUR reaction. Your total disregard and redirected focus spells, "Humm....dee dumm...la-di-da....." On occasion, a pup will check on me and then return to the chase. Perfect.......!!
1 bird = 1 shot, initially. You will know when it is no longer a concern. Later on, when it's time to kill a bird for pup, make sure you don't shoot over her/his head. Sounds like common sense but.......you'd be surprised!

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Sharon
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Re: When should I start gun shooting around my 12 week old GSP

Post by Sharon » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:15 pm

"You can start a shot or two around your dog (and watch the reaction) but only when the dog has been introduced to birds and is chasing birds with gusto. This way, birds=guns=birds. I have tried MANY other methods and this one where birds are the prime subject works flawlessly. " FF

Exactly as I was going to say but said much better. :)

BellaAndoverNJ
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Re: When should I start gun shooting around my 12 week old GSP

Post by BellaAndoverNJ » Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:01 am

thank you

setterpoint
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Re: When should I start gun shooting around my 12 week old GSP

Post by setterpoint » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:11 pm

do not take your pup to a gun range you got lots of time so dont be in no hurry i would watch a video and follow it you can go to youtube lots of stuff on there about this

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tekoa
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Re: When should I start gun shooting around my 12 week old GSP

Post by tekoa » Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:19 pm

BE CAREFUL WITH THIS............Many dogs can adjust to loud noises and gunfire very quickly and never seem to notice. Most however can easily be made gun-shy by exposure to gunfire at a range or in the field from multiple shooters, or by a lone shooter at close range. A gun shy birddog is a tragedy. Very difficult, time consuming and expensive to fix a gun shy dog. Best not to let it happen.

The method I use is from "Hickox training method", which has always been successful for me (12 dogs).

Introduce your dog to birds(whole other topic, surprisingly some very good bird dogs are either afraid of birds or uninterested in birds when they are pups) When he is aggressively chasing birds introduce the gun with birds. 12 weeks of age is fine, but any older age is ok.........

In a field with no distractions, no guns except yours, no other people, no active roads etc.....If pup does not recall reliably, set up a fenced corridor (tensar and stakes)
so pup can't escape. Have available handgun with 22 crimps and 22 blanks, shotguns in 410, and 20 or 12 gauge with poppers and blanks. Have a few clip wing pigeons and a helper.

Helper stands off 50 yards from corridor with pistol and crimps. Dog on check cord at mouth of corridor. You toss a clip wing into corridor, turn pup loose, raise your hand, when pup is fully occupied in chasing the clip wing, signal helper to fire.

If pup does not react to the gunfire, move the gun 10/15 yards closer to corridor and repeat, until gun is at point where bird is tossed. Switch to 22 Blanks and start over at 50 yards, you can move faster or slower, but if the pup notices the gunfire at any stage, back up and start again until he doesn't notice a 12 gauge blank with gun right by your side. I have had this take one session and as many as 4 20 minute sessions to satisfactorily introduce the pup to gunfire.

When you are done , your pup will still react to loud noises that are not in the context of birds and the field. But in the field and in the presence of birds he may notice gunfire but will positively associate it with birds and hunting and you.

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DonF
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Re: When should I start gun shooting around my 12 week old GSP

Post by DonF » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:39 am

I started them off for years with a 22 rifle. Let the up get out 15 of 20 yds and holding the muzzle close to the ground, fire a shot; really quiet's down the report. How ever you do it , it's very important no matter it's reaction stay calm and keep walking. Do not call it in to comfort it just keep walking like nothing happened. Id if it startles the pup, keep going and ignore it, it's no big deal. End of the walk, put the gun away and wait a few days to try again. Forgot, before firng the shot, be sure the pup is interested in something other than you. I have read where a lot of people use a bird to attract the pup's attention, the though being it will be so interested in the bird it won't pay attention to the shot. The other side of that coin is the pup may be started and relate the noise to the bird. Had a thread on here years ago, guy had a dog that would obviously find birds then leave them. That could happen for a few reason's but in this case, it was caused by a dog that was gun shy. The dog was finding the bird then associating it with a soon to follow gun shot. Back then one of the folk's on here with a bunch of experience met with the guy and fooled with the dog with birds, the dog was not bird shy, it was gun shy. Something to understand, very very few dog's are born guy shy, it is normally and man made problem. Pay attention to what is happening with your pup and read what it's telling you. I found over the years that doing that to a dog takes quite a bit of effort. Scaring poop out of the dog to get it used to gun fire just doesn't work.

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Re: When should I start gun shooting around my 12 week old GSP

Post by Thinblueline » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:07 am

I have very little experience with pointing dogs, other than two different English Setters back in my teens and early twenties, but I have had a couple good Labrador retriever gun dogs. The method that has worked for me has been to have a 22 blank pistol in hand when I'm running my young dogs in fields. When they are way out there preoccupied with chasing butterflies or anything else, I fire a shot behind me and toward the ground, with my body between the gun and the dog. As the walk goes on I'll lessen the noise precaution one step at a time, first lifting the gun a little more in the air, then holding the gun out front, then slowly and gradually closing the distance. I always make sure the dog is preoccupied, I always portray to the dog my indifference and keep walking, and I don't try to get the whole thing done in one day by firing a hundred shots, but rather a few more shots and closer shots over the course of a few field runs. Of course, toward the end I'm also firing a little heavier charge than I did in the beginning.

This method has seemed to work for me. The dogs very quickly don't pay much attention to the noise after I show them that I'm not paying any attention to it. I really can't do the chasing game bird/fire gun method because I don't plan on putting pen raised birds out for my newest pup. I'm going to run him on our public areas as often as possible after July 31st when I can do so legally, then he is going to get a baptism of wild bird experience in the grouse woods in mid-September when the season opens. I have no expectations for success, other than to allow my dog to have as many grouse and woodcock encounters as possible each week for a couple of months, letting him handle the birds as he sees fit.

Even though my overall dog experience pales in comparison to many on this website, I believe I have noticed a definite difference in point intensity and staunchness between dogs I know have spent a lot of time around pen raised birds, as opposed to a few dogs I've seen that have only dealt with wild birds their entire lives. I don't want to risk exposing my dog to semi-tame birds he may even catch while chasing, just to work the gun in. If you're careful and use the wide open fields to accomplish the task in a careful manner, I think you can successfully acclimate your dog to gunfire.

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Re: When should I start gun shooting around my 12 week old GSP

Post by mnaj_springer » Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:04 pm

I start with bird intro... get the pup fired up on chasing down hand thrown clip wings (pigeons are cheap and quail are smaller). Then I throw the bird and when the dog is almost there fire a starter pistol. That does two things: introduces the gunfire without the dog "knowing" and helping the pup associate gunfire with birds.

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Re: When should I start gun shooting around my 12 week old GSP

Post by DonF » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:26 am

Thinblueline wrote:I have very little experience with pointing dogs, other than two different English Setters back in my teens and early twenties, but I have had a couple good Labrador retriever gun dogs. The method that has worked for me has been to have a 22 blank pistol in hand when I'm running my young dogs in fields. When they are way out there preoccupied with chasing butterflies or anything else, I fire a shot behind me and toward the ground, with my body between the gun and the dog. As the walk goes on I'll lessen the noise precaution one step at a time, first lifting the gun a little more in the air, then holding the gun out front, then slowly and gradually closing the distance. I always make sure the dog is preoccupied, I always portray to the dog my indifference and keep walking, and I don't try to get the whole thing done in one day by firing a hundred shots, but rather a few more shots and closer shots over the course of a few field runs. Of course, toward the end I'm also firing a little heavier charge than I did in the beginning.

This method has seemed to work for me. The dogs very quickly don't pay much attention to the noise after I show them that I'm not paying any attention to it. I really can't do the chasing game bird/fire gun method because I don't plan on putting pen raised birds out for my newest pup. I'm going to run him on our public areas as often as possible after July 31st when I can do so legally, then he is going to get a baptism of wild bird experience in the grouse woods in mid-September when the season opens. I have no expectations for success, other than to allow my dog to have as many grouse and woodcock encounters as possible each week for a couple of months, letting him handle the birds as he sees fit.

Even though my overall dog experience pales in comparison to many on this website, I believe I have noticed a definite difference in point intensity and staunchness between dogs I know have spent a lot of time around pen raised birds, as opposed to a few dogs I've seen that have only dealt with wild birds their entire lives. I don't want to risk exposing my dog to semi-tame birds he may even catch while chasing, just to work the gun in. If you're careful and use the wide open fields to accomplish the task in a careful manner, I think you can successfully acclimate your dog to gunfire.
Nice post! About liberated birds, I pretty much agree with you, I don't train on them, I used pigeon's and remote release traps. The bad thing about wild birds for me is you never know how many or even if your going to find. Wild bird's don't work with you, they are self employed! Pigeon's on the other hand, you always know where they are and when they come out, they go home to your loft to fly again tomorrow. Also with pigeons, you see something that needs working on, you can set it up. Now the secret with them for me is working the trap's right to simulate what a wild bird might do, it's ll in your hand's! I found the turn over from pigeon's to game birds is quick if you don't turn the pigeon into a training bird for your dog.

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