Gun Dog Forum

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no ..setters are tough dogs though they do not take the heat like some other breeds do or at least my dogs dont they are dogs that like to please i very seldom have to use the e collar they no what there suposed to do and are happy to do it . im a grouse hunter and so are my dogs there coat while may not be the best in hot temps. but it helps in the thick stuff they no thats what the birds like . not trying to insult anyone but a dog thats has to be shocked ever few min. is a dog that has not been prop. trained and dont know what its supposed to be doing

I understand looking for heat tolerance, but I'd never recommend a dog to anyone who wants one that he can knock the bejeezus out of and expect it to come back for more. Unless you're a psychopath and roughing dogs up is part of your illness, might be better to look for *trainability*. The kind of dog you show him what you want, and he does it, or tell him 'Don't do that any more' and he won't.

Stone, If that's the kind of dog you want why not just get a pointer or GSP. Much harder and heat tolerant breeds.

Or maybe a "Junk Yard" mutt!

shags wrote:I understand looking for heat tolerance, but I'd never recommend a dog to anyone who wants one that he can knock the bejeezus out of and expect it to come back for more. Unless you're a psychopath and roughing dogs up is part of your illness, might be better to look for *trainability*. The kind of dog you show him what you want, and he does it, or tell him 'Don't do that any more' and he won't.

Well said.

Stoneface wrote:Does anyone know of any Setters as hard and tough as barbed wire? Dogs that get up in the morning looking to get shocked all to heck with an eCollar then go back for more and can stand 200-degree throbbing heat with a full coat. I'm exaggerating, but there has to be as least one bad "bleep" Setter in the world today.

Don't take this as me saying I fry my dogs and want a dog that can take it or anything else like that and please don't comment your point of views if you don't have an answer for my question. None of the, "It's stupid to want a hard Setter. It's better to have a dog that wants to listen to you." Replies.

Thankfully....no, I do not know of any english setters that would fit that definition.
Or Red or Gordon setters either.

I am tho reminded of Garth Brooks and Unanswered Prayers.

Lets hope there are not any dogs that fit that description nor people wanting one when we have worked so long at breeding good dogs.

Ezzy

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Stoneface, there are owners of AA National Champions out there that would disagree with you and tell you that they prefer a soft dog as they make such fine finished products. I know one person in particular has owned two National Champions and odds are they will own another if they are given enough time.

The demeaning and personal attacking approach you have above is so bottom of the barrel character. Please try and stay civil so others will not decide to leave as well. That type attitude is a big contributor to why so many professionals (who helped others when questions arose) have left the forum through the years. I know this as I have personally spoken with them on why they left.

any dog wants to please no matter what bread the setters iv got and have owend some were a little more hard headed than others were but if you can show the dog what you want it to do or not do. as i said they want to please iv never seen a dog you can beat it into them or shock it into them any dog will shut down the ecollar is a great tool for correcting a command the dog knows but might not want to do it but in the wrong hands can ruin even the boldst of dogs of any breed

Stoneface wrote:Ezzy, does it hurt to be so stupid? I was talking to a trainer/trialer the other day and he was telling me how he hates Setters because they're so "bleep" soft. If you want more of these soft dogs you can find a number of them on any rescue website because the owner handled them too hard with the collar. You keep on playing patty fingers with your hard-to-train dogs that can't take the lowest setting on an eCollar, but I want a harder dog than that who is just as biddable and can be trained no problem. I'm glad you're so old. We need your kind to die off and leave us alone.

Stoneface -

I would be VERY suspicious of the abilities of any trainer who would make the statement you said they made.

Soft dogs are NOT a problem to train...if they are biddable. Soft dogs are NOT a problem to train...if they possess a high level of drive and desire to find birds. And lastly and most importantly...

Soft dogs are NOT a problem to train if the trainer takes their time, works in a calm, gentle, positive manner.

Soft dogs...of ANY breed...can be a nightmare for a ham handed, short tempered, impatient individual to train.

If you have a soft dog that is smart, biddable and that has a ton of desire... all you may need to do for that dog is to figure out how to show it what you want it to do.

The problem is that sometimes you can get a dog that is soft but yet stubborn and not biddable. Not much you can do with that kind of dog. If the dog were smart, not biddable and tough as nails, You could lump on it, fry it with electricity and guess what??? You still wouldn't have much of a dog when all was said and done.

One of the biggest problems with setters(as opposed to pointers, for comparison) is that they tend to mature a little slower and take a little longer to get to where they need to be. If a trainer is in a hurry...that may not turn out well with a setter.

Setters also seem to need more human contact and interaction than pointers, to get the most out of them. A trainer that is used to pointers may not spend enough "quality" time with a setter to have it reach its potential.

All of the above is one man's opinion, and a pointer guy at that. Soooo, take it for what it is worth.

RayG



And yes... you CAN have a dog that is tough enough to dive into multiflora or greenbrier because that is where the birds are found... or will run and hunt on blown pads or in heat until it falls over on its nose... and still not tolerate Neanderthal handling methods.

There are different kinds of "tough".

Stoneface wrote:Ezzy, does it hurt to be so stupid? I was talking to a trainer/trialer the other day and he was telling me how he hates Setters because they're so "bleep" soft. If you want more of these soft dogs you can find a number of them on any rescue website because the owner handled them too hard with the collar. You keep on playing patty fingers with your hard-to-train dogs that can't take the lowest setting on an eCollar, but I want a harder dog than that who is just as biddable and can be trained no problem. I'm glad you're so old. We need your kind to die off and leave us alone.

And this so-called trainer wants people on here to recommend where to get a dog :roll: Great display of temperament and character.

OP, shame on you for this disgusting comment.

Stoneface wrote:Ezzy, does it hurt to be so stupid? I was talking to a trainer/trialer the other day and he was telling me how he hates Setters because they're so "bleep" soft. If you want more of these soft dogs you can find a number of them on any rescue website because the owner handled them too hard with the collar. You keep on playing patty fingers with your hard-to-train dogs that can't take the lowest setting on an eCollar, but I want a harder dog than that who is just as biddable and can be trained no problem. I'm glad you're so old. We need your kind to die off and leave us alone.

I am not sure if it hurts to be stupid or if it hurts because a few others are a few cards short. I think we are all aware that certain very popular breeds tend to be softer than others but luckily it doesn't show up as a problem in the finished dog. What it does say is different dogs require different methods of training which does throw some trainers that have trouble adjusting their methods to the dog instead of just blaming the dog for their own personal shortcomings. And it is a shame if those dogs end up n a rescue situation because of the trainers shortcomings.

As far as my kind dying off, I want to set your mind at ease. We are!!!!!!!!!!! And when we are gone who are you going to ask for advice such as you are on this post? You can continue to frequent others sites and try to insult this site and the people on it. But sadly, that doesn't seem to be working well for you. I think your problem may be you are getting older everyday and hopefully getting smarter as you do. The future looks bleak though, as there will be young people coming up and they of course will be a lot smarter than you old people just as it is now. We are so lucky that the human race is born so smart but it sure hurts when we get stupid as we age.

Just remember, that the inferior complex you are exhibiting may not be a complex. I hope everything works out for you quickly while you still know everything. It certainly gets harder as you age.

Have to go or I will be late for my radiation appointment. Love you and your vast reservoir of knowledge. Come back when you have other questions as I am sure many of the older folks will be able to help you.

Ezzy

Interesting that despite the banning of political posts (no argument from me), uninformed fringe nutcases still manage to show their character and colors in their own way.

birddogger2 wrote:

Stoneface wrote:Ezzy, does it hurt to be so stupid? I was talking to a trainer/trialer the other day and he was telling me how he hates Setters because they're so "bleep" soft. If you want more of these soft dogs you can find a number of them on any rescue website because the owner handled them too hard with the collar. You keep on playing patty fingers with your hard-to-train dogs that can't take the lowest setting on an eCollar, but I want a harder dog than that who is just as biddable and can be trained no problem. I'm glad you're so old. We need your kind to die off and leave us alone.

Stoneface -

I would be VERY suspicious of the abilities of any trainer who would make the statement you said they made.

Soft dogs are NOT a problem to train...if they are biddable. Soft dogs are NOT a problem to train...if they possess a high level of drive and desire to find birds. And lastly and most importantly...

Soft dogs are NOT a problem to train if the trainer takes their time, works in a calm, gentle, positive manner.

Soft dogs...of ANY breed...can be a nightmare for a ham handed, short tempered, impatient individual to train.

If you have a soft dog that is smart, biddable and that has a ton of desire... all you may need to do for that dog is to figure out how to show it what you want it to do.

The problem is that sometimes you can get a dog that is soft but yet stubborn and not biddable. Not much you can do with that kind of dog. If the dog were smart, not biddable and tough as nails, You could lump on it, fry it with electricity and guess what??? You still wouldn't have much of a dog when all was said and done.

One of the biggest problems with setters(as opposed to pointers, for comparison) is that they tend to mature a little slower and take a little longer to get to where they need to be. If a trainer is in a hurry...that may not turn out well with a setter.

Setters also seem to need more human contact and interaction than pointers, to get the most out of them. A trainer that is used to pointers may not spend enough "quality" time with a setter to have it reach its potential.

All of the above is one man's opinion, and a pointer guy at that. Soooo, take it for what it is worth.

RayG



And yes... you CAN have a dog that is tough enough to dive into multiflora or greenbrier because that is where the birds are found... or will run and hunt on blown pads or in heat until it falls over on its nose... and still not tolerate Neanderthal handling methods.

There are different kinds of "tough".

Nice post Ray. Won't even try to add to it.

Stoneface wrote:Ezzy, does it hurt to be so stupid? I was talking to a trainer/trialer the other day and he was telling me how he hates Setters because they're so "bleep" soft. If you want more of these soft dogs you can find a number of them on any rescue website because the owner handled them too hard with the collar. You keep on playing patty fingers with your hard-to-train dogs that can't take the lowest setting on an eCollar, but I want a harder dog than that who is just as biddable and can be trained no problem. I'm glad you're so old. We need your kind to die off and leave us alone.

It's too bad you fancy yourself a professional. I truly feel sorry for anyone that EVER would send you a dog. Seems to me I remember it was just a few years back you were a rank newbie begging for advice. Where did all of this remarkable knowledge evolve from?

gonehuntin' wrote:

Stoneface wrote:Ezzy, does it hurt to be so stupid? I was talking to a trainer/trialer the other day and he was telling me how he hates Setters because they're so "bleep" soft. If you want more of these soft dogs you can find a number of them on any rescue website because the owner handled them too hard with the collar. You keep on playing patty fingers with your hard-to-train dogs that can't take the lowest setting on an eCollar, but I want a harder dog than that who is just as biddable and can be trained no problem. I'm glad you're so old. We need your kind to die off and leave us alone.

It's too bad you fancy yourself a professional. I truly feel sorry for anyone that EVER would send you a dog. Seems to me I remember it was just a few years back you were a rank newbie begging for advice. Where did all of this remarkable knowledge evolve from?

Rowdy is better with fund raisers. There is no question who the stupid one is in this deal. After reading all of this I wouldn't even send an ex wives dog to this person.

mask wrote:

gonehuntin' wrote:

Stoneface wrote:Ezzy, does it hurt to be so stupid? I was talking to a trainer/trialer the other day and he was telling me how he hates Setters because they're so "bleep" soft. If you want more of these soft dogs you can find a number of them on any rescue website because the owner handled them too hard with the collar. You keep on playing patty fingers with your hard-to-train dogs that can't take the lowest setting on an eCollar, but I want a harder dog than that who is just as biddable and can be trained no problem. I'm glad you're so old. We need your kind to die off and leave us alone.

It's too bad you fancy yourself a professional. I truly feel sorry for anyone that EVER would send you a dog. Seems to me I remember it was just a few years back you were a rank newbie begging for advice. Where did all of this remarkable knowledge evolve from?

Rowdy is better with fund raisers. There is no question who the stupid one is in this deal. After reading all of this I wouldn't even send an ex wives dog to this person.

Bet he was hoping everyone had forgotten that scam. Seems like his vision is fine now.

Stoneface wrote:Ezzy, does it hurt to be so stupid? I was talking to a trainer/trialer the other day and he was telling me how he hates Setters because they're so "bleep" soft. If you want more of these soft dogs you can find a number of them on any rescue website because the owner handled them too hard with the collar. You keep on playing patty fingers with your hard-to-train dogs that can't take the lowest setting on an eCollar, but I want a harder dog than that who is just as biddable and can be trained no problem. I'm glad you're so old. We need your kind to die off and leave us alone.

Wow . Personal attacks are not needed on here. Don't forget , you reap what you sow.

Troll. Let it go.

Denigrate. Call names. Probably start tweeting in the morning.

He is not with us anymore. Sadly he posted on other sites and has had nothing good to say about our forum or the people on it. I left everything up so he could read the comments and he never said a word so I banned him as I could find nothing that he added to our forum.

Ezzy

To answer your question stone face if you still read and check.... To find "hard dogs" is usually difficult. Therefore breed your own to your liking. You may even have to cross with other "hard breeds" then dilute down to what you want. Though when I think of "hard" dogs I think of hardness towards game not taking beatings and coming back for more. As far as wishing death on someone I will have to say you're out of line. Weather you agree with ezzy or not you owe him an apology.


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