Grooming the Wirehair

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Steve007
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Grooming the Wirehair

Post by Steve007 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:41 pm

This--as you can see --is just copied from a thread called "pup vs. started dog". Sometimes threads go in a direction that would not be clear based on by the title, but might have benefit. But if the thread is not titled to indicate the content of the screwy-direction post, the post isn't read.

I would like to state that I am NOT the expert on this. That would be fuzznut, who has educated me on this subject. Nevertheless, she's not around this board much,and I have --with time, effort and help -- rise to the height of better-than-mediocrity in this area.

I have had breeds of dogs with four different coat types as house dogs, and wirehairs shed the least --by a wide margin,depending on the individual dog. But some grooming must still be done. Or should be.

: The pup vs started dog debate
Postby Steve007 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:13 pm

bustingcover wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
It is also possible, based on "not liking the look of them", that he's never seen a decently groomed wirehair. it does not take a great deal of time to groom a wirehair, but doing at least some improves their looks enormously. (You as a lady should know this. :wink: ) Some uncaring or unknowledgeable owners do none, and their dogs are pretty scruffy. Look at different photos of wirehairs on google. With very little work, you can have the look you like.

I have two. I groom them differently, but they are both very attractive dogs. They shed less than other breeds and pick up far fewer burrs.


How are you grooming your wirehairs I found stripping to take a decent chunk of time. But a groomed one is a very handsome dog.


There are two ways to do this, and you'll get good results either way. Shaving or clipping them, as can be done with single-coated dogs, is not appropriate for this breed.

If you'll look up 'Mars Coat King" on Amazon (or google), you'll see an easy to use tool that works. It does cut the coat, so it is not precisely hand stripping and some minor work with a blade around the face (or you can use your fingers) is good, but it is effective. Plus toenails and a little scissoring around feet. (picks up fewer burrs and less snow). I do this with my older FC MH . Maybe five minutes every week and I have another tool to pull out undercoat only in the spring. She's a fine looking dog. Her coat is not as harsh as it once was, but she's an older spayed bitch and that's likely a factor.

The other way is what i do with my male. He gets out in public a lot , as he's a nationally-ranked competition obedience dog. Well, so does she, as she's our bodyguard at shows, but she's mostly in her crate. No one has ever seen a GWP in obedience around here, and I feel I have to uphold the honor of the breed, so groom him differently. He's also a multiple specialty-winning (BOW,not BOB) show champion, so i have good material to work with. I do pull the coat using a variety of blades/tools. Probably 10-15 minutes every week. Grooming table is a big help. He's almost always within 15 minutes of final touch-up grooming from a genuine show groomer (which I'm not) of going into the conformation show ring. He has a great coat. We do not show any more, but he may as well look as good as possible in public at obedience trials.

There is no "breed split" in wirehairs, by the way, though there are different lines. There are lots of DC , and my male is a good fun bird dog. These are my first wirehairs (Gordons before that), and I had to learn to groom them. Lots of information (see youtube) and helpful people around. It's not hard to learn, doesn't take much time (but every week) and it's actually kind of bonding-type fun. Grooming table helps a lot.

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gonehuntin'
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Re: Grooming the Wirehair

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:02 pm

Which one Steve? I've always used a furminator and have been happy. Do you think the Coat King is better? Why?

Steve007
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Re: Grooming the Wirehair

Post by Steve007 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:31 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:Which one Steve? I've always used a furminator and have been happy. Do you think the Coat King is better? Why?
Don't know, as it's never occurred to me to use one. However, I contacted some more experienced groomers/wirehair people (including fuzznut) who said it works ok to pull out undercoat. However, apparently it cuts the coat more than a Mars Coat King and thus would lead to a softer less harsh coat and less protection than is afforded by a correctly maintained coat. Still, some pet and field people do use it for maintenance and if you're happy with it, I'm sure you're miles ahead of those who don't do anything.

FlyinSoLow
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Re: Grooming the Wirehair

Post by FlyinSoLow » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:41 pm

Could anyone post picks of well groomed Wirehair vs a bad one?
My husband is against them, because of the long coat.

What about slick coats? I know it’s not desirable... do they pop up random? Or any good Breeder breeds around it? I don’t need breeding material and thought maybe a slick coated version might be an option? If they kinda just “happen”... not that someone’s purposely breeding poor dogs :lol:

At the risk of being tarred and feathered ... a slick coated wirehair honestly seems like my ideal dog!

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gonehuntin'
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Re: Grooming the Wirehair

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:59 pm

Steve007 wrote:
gonehuntin' wrote:Which one Steve? I've always used a furminator and have been happy. Do you think the Coat King is better? Why?
Don't know, as it's never occurred to me to use one. However, I contacted some more experienced groomers/wirehair people (including fuzznut) who said it works ok to pull out undercoat. However, apparently it cuts the coat more than a Mars Coat King and thus would lead to a softer less harsh coat and less protection than is afforded by a correctly maintained coat. Still, some pet and field people do use it for maintenance and if you're happy with it, I'm sure you're miles ahead of those who don't do anything.
I think I'll try one. Do you know what size is best for a DD?

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bustingcover
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Re: Grooming the Wirehair

Post by bustingcover » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:01 pm

FlyinSoLow wrote:Could anyone post picks of well groomed Wirehair vs a bad one?
My husband is against them, because of the long coat.

What about slick coats? I know it’s not desirable... do they pop up random? Or any good Breeder breeds around it? I don’t need breeding material and thought maybe a slick coated version might be an option? If they kinda just “happen”... not that someone’s purposely breeding poor dogs :lol:

At the risk of being tarred and feathered ... a slick coated wirehair honestly seems like my ideal dog!
Well idk if I can say “well groomed” but this is mine cleaned up which looks a lot nicer than letting it grow out

Image
Image

JONOV
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Re: Grooming the Wirehair

Post by JONOV » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:46 am

gonehuntin' wrote:Which one Steve? I've always used a furminator and have been happy. Do you think the Coat King is better? Why?
I have a very furry wirehair, and the Coat King is better. I have both.

The furminator is like a flea comb with a blade. The Coat King moves smoothly through the coat and lifts undercoat out effortlessly. The furminator tugs and pulls on the hair, and even dogs that take to grooming well (as mine does) get aggravated with it. The coat king glides along and before you know it you have a volleyball of undercoat in your lap.

I agree that they shed less than GSP's i've watched, and labs and Golden's I've had. They aren't like a poodle but they shed weigh less.

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Re: Grooming the Wirehair

Post by Steve007 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:10 am

Below is link to a clear "primer " on grooming the wirehair by two qualified authorities, one of whom is our own "fuzznut". Mars Coat King Medium 12 or 14 blade is recommended for wires.

I suspect Flyin' so low's husband is confusing a GWP with a Wirehaired Pointing Griffon. The coat is NOT "long". The Standard says 1-2 inches and "the distinctive outer coat is straight, harsh, wiry and flat lying". That's not long, unless you never ever groom the dog. Obviously, there are individual differences, as in all breeds.

Here's a (former) nationally-ranked FC and MH (mine) who could stand a little grooming . :oops: Still, I'm posting it to show that the coat of an even sort of field-groomed hunting wire cannot be described as"long". It is, however, extremely protective against anything you'll find in the field including cold water retrieving.

Image

http://www.gwpca.com/Forms/GWP_Grooming_Tutorial.pdf

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bustingcover
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Re: Grooming the Wirehair

Post by bustingcover » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:25 am

There are gwp with long crappy hair. Don’t get one of those.

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Re: Grooming the Wirehair

Post by JONOV » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:09 am

FlyinSoLow wrote:Could anyone post picks of well groomed Wirehair vs a bad one?
http://www.afterhourskennels.com/wookie That's a show picture from a well known show kennel (I think their dogs go to Westminster, ETC...) to give you a reference
FlyinSoLow wrote:My husband is against them, because of the long coat.
What about the long coat is your husband against? Is it concern about heat, maintenance, shedding, or simple aesthetics? Pulling thistles out of my dog hasn't been a huge chore. He sheds less than any lab, GSP, Golden Retriever, or Setter that I've seen.
FlyinSoLow wrote: What about slick coats? I know it’s not desirable... do they pop up random? Or any good Breeder breeds around it? I don’t need breeding material and thought maybe a slick coated version might be an option? If they kinda just “happen”... not that someone’s purposely breeding poor dogs :lol:

At the risk of being tarred and feathered ... a slick coated wirehair honestly seems like my ideal dog!
Talk to some breeders. Sometimes they do a genetic test or can track back for facial furnishings. In any case, slicks aren't uncommon.

I might get tarred and feathered for this too, but I'll take that risk; I see more slicks from the VDD lines than I do in GWP's. There is a furnishings test that can be done genetically (or maybe its simple Aa genetic allele tracking, I'm not sure.)

GWP's/VDD's have a wide variety in coats. They go from indistinguishable from shorthairs, to thicker and denser but still slick, to "slick with a beard."

Mine is has a long coat. He might even have the "crappy coat" that bustin cover references (and I don't take offense to that either, I get it,) although it was judged medium-harsh, medium-dense by the Navhda judges. This picture with him sitting next to the ducks is him at the worst grooming state, several days into a hunting trip and after several skunk baths that changed his coat.

The picture of him pointing is relatively well groomed since we were bringing him to thanksgiving the next day.
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Steve007
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Re: Grooming the Wirehair

Post by Steve007 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:40 pm

Afterhours is a very well-known and respected kennel, jonov. However, there is a difference in how individual dogs are presented (groomed) at shows. I'm not a fan of taking them back almost like shorthairs with facial furnishings. Here's a link to different (and top-winning) dog at the same kennel. Note the coat. Of course, the quality of the coat is not completely observable in a photo, but a good coat doesn't feel like a shorthair's no matter how much you hack it back. An early writer on the breed said it "should be of a harshness suitable to scrub a ship's decks with".

http://www.afterhourskennels.com/lucas

Good pictures of before and after on your dog. Baths,as you've noted, fuzz up and soften their coats for a while. It goes back to normal in a few days, depending on the dog. Mars Coat King works! Well, maybe a few other tools, too.

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Re: Grooming the Wirehair

Post by JONOV » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:03 pm

Steve007 wrote:Good pictures of before and after on your dog. Baths,as you've noted, fuzz up and soften their coats for a while. It goes back to normal in a few days, depending on the dog. Mars Coat King works! Well, maybe a few other tools, too.
Thanks!
Yeah, the peroxide/soda/dawn skunk bath did a number on both his coat and skin. I could tell he wasn't too comfortable but what can you do?

All the Afterhours dogs look good. I like the "bristle brush" type description.

I think its hard for breeders to zero in on that coat without breeding exclusively for it (which Afterhours does to a certain extent being that they're mostly a show kennel,) same for the beards. The relatively short but hard-as-iron coats are the best IMO, but I like my fuzzy one all the same. Two days after a bath the oil comes back in the skin and it lies flat everywhere but his legs and chest.

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