Grouse dog

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isonychia
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Grouse dog

Post by isonychia » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:03 pm

I have some good leads on a couple of French Brit breeders, thanks to this forum, however I am curious to know if anyone can chime in on some American Brittany breeders who produce dogs that work terrain dependently (IE my current brit ranges about 150-300 yards in the woods when I don't hold the pressure on him to stay close and up to 1 mile in the open if allowed to do as pleases, I am looking for a dog that works more like 150 yards max in thick woods and .25 mile in the open). Maybe the breeder will have more of a focus on NAVHDA vs AKC trials or hunt tests more so than trials and a line known for good in house "switches" that can be calmer when not out running about.

Any help again is greatly appreciated. I am definitely doing lots of searches through existing posts like this one, don't worry!

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Re: Grouse dog

Post by Sharon » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:01 pm

......................"IE my current brit ranges about 150-300 yards in the woods when I don't hold the pressure on him to stay close and up to 1 mile in the open if allowed to do as pleases, I am looking for a dog that works more like 150 yards max in thick woods and .25 mile in the open)." quote

I'm no expert but imo it is in the training not the dog. I have a pro friend who often gets BIG running dogs presented to him , but the owner wants a close working dog. The pro is able to train the dog to be what the owner wants.

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isonychia
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Re: Grouse dog

Post by isonychia » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:03 pm

To be honest, all is well until he hits the bird scent, can't complain about a good nose but dangit! I can't keep up with him.

However in response to what you are saying, if that is true then the dependencies I hear between French and American brits are off. I think it has something to do with both. I can keep my dog checking in once he reaches 100 yards, but it wears me thin.

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isonychia
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Re: Grouse dog

Post by isonychia » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:13 am

Can anyone tell me about sunburst kennel's dogs up in Idaho? Some look like Americans and some look like they have French pigment. The seem to work the field a little looser than a trials dog in the videos, maybe a trainer thing.

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Re: Grouse dog

Post by Featherfinder » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:15 am

French Brittany/American Brittany - they are both Brittanys. You are more likely to get the dog you want from proper early development & training than whether French or American Brittany.
It sounds to me like you followed the process of, "....let that young dog run...then we'll train him later once he grows up a bit." I'm referring to your current dog. Might work (never was my philosophy) for the trial community but not productive for the brag wild-bird gun dog.
In-other-words, if you get another dog and give it the same development, it might blossom into exactly what you have now or very similar, where-ever it comes from.
Sadly, the great majority of field trialed American Brittanys have lost their natural retrieve instinct but not ALL of them. That's why starting them right helps a lot.

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Re: Grouse dog

Post by isonychia » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:21 am

Certainly did not have the let the log run attitude. I did have a professional trainer tell me my next brittany would be a piece of cake in comparison. I did get my dog pointing birds 60 yards (sometimes he would wall up at 100 yards just till I got there, then work a moving bird) away and steady to release. Also force fetched perfectly, early even, due to his demeanor (1.5 years), all at my hand. So.....

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Re: Grouse dog

Post by Featherfinder » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:56 pm

Aaahhh...I stand corrected. It's possible then that you got one of those dogs the trial community would die for but it landed in a gun dog home. Don't give up on him. In training, make sure his finds are in close proximity to you. Also, I would not use a bell or constant beeper on him. Use a GPS tracker for his safety and a point-only mode beeper for his finds. Force him to develop a report with you/the gun. An e-collar may be required in your case.

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Re: Grouse dog

Post by isonychia » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:19 pm

Thanks for the pointers, sorry to get on the defensive 8) I actually use a gps collar, the new astros are sooo much better than the original releases too! I use an e-collar as well. I have learned through the years that this dog has to be hit really hard at the most appropriate times and then he will behave for the rest of the day and only range out to say, 200 yards in the grouse woods (sometimes this works fantastically if I am in the right cover). He definitely finds the birds! I backed off of the steadiness and focused more on the team effort of bagging grouse and beautiful points as he has gotten older, both of us enjoy this more. If he leads me to a bird 200 yards off of our logging road and then fetches that bird for me down a 55 degree slope, I don't even care if he drops it 10 feet away from me on the road. I have slacked. It was hard to know how hard this dog could take it in the beginning when running on birds so far out, I didn't want to turn him off, I learned though that some dogs are just special :roll: He is a machine! He also knows that I am often wrong, I think that this is why his independence has been a blessing in disguise, I just remember the days of young (which really JUST ended) when every hunt left me a nervous wreck before I learned what his rabbit chasing squeal was (instead of what I thought: him getting eaten by a lion). Unfortunately, he has been diagnosed with mitral valve insufficiency at age 7. I think the hunts will very much be about him from now on. Hunts I really "shouldn't" be taking him on.

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Re: Grouse dog

Post by isonychia » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:45 pm

Here is some steady work I was doing. This was shortly after he cut a tendon on a broken piece of glass in a river so we introduced booties (our training area unfortunately has a fair bit of sharp old glass and metal)
https://youtu.be/uxZcUGJJLvE

I tried really hard to move this over to wild birds for a while before we got it right, only to loose it over an off season that we spent on pigeons, here I am repeating stay (I didn't use whoa for some personal reasons) but I am nicking him each time, I was very, very green. He does a better job than me here. This is an easy bird, right along the old logging road, but a nice point, shoot and retrieve for a younger dog. Albeit the point is a little close to that bird! Honestly, this video embarrasses me now, but if you keep watching through it all you will hear my inner feelings on what I was trying to accomplish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3eYKrqU6iI&t=135s

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Re: Grouse dog

Post by Featherfinder » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:33 am

Nice videos of your dog!
Last edited by Featherfinder on Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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isonychia
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Re: Grouse dog

Post by isonychia » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:57 am

Yeah we actually did ditch pigeons and move to wild birds. He was sticky in all my fields. You will see in one of the videos that if he gets too close to the launchers I let them fly, say nothing. They are remote, not a foot release.

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Re: Grouse dog

Post by Featherfinder » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:09 pm

I could see that from your video. The key is your dog knows those birds are in a launcher therefore in training mode. More succinctly, he knows wild birds are not in launchers and behaves according to what has historically transpired there-in.
Last edited by Featherfinder on Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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isonychia
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Re: Grouse dog

Post by isonychia » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:40 pm

Featherfinder wrote:I could see that from your video. The key is your dog knows those birds are in a launcher therefore in training mode. More succinctly, he knows wild birds are not in launchers and behaves accord to what has historically transpired there-in.
Totally, I think at a certain point its just a matter of, this is how you behave in front of women. Then you place a naked woman in front of them and say, now behave the same way. It certainly can transpire but takes a little work. I sure wish I had an assistant that could shoot! I need to be the one controlling the collar and, well, my wife isn't very amazing with a shotgun... working on that (she is my photographer but taking her out for turkey this spring, we will see).

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Re: Grouse dog

Post by Sharon » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:04 pm

isonychia wrote:Here is some steady work I was doing. This was shortly after he cut a tendon on a broken piece of glass in a river so we introduced booties (our training area unfortunately has a fair bit of sharp old glass and metal)
https://youtu.be/uxZcUGJJLvE

I tried really hard to move this over to wild birds for a while before we got it right, only to loose it over an off season that we spent on pigeons, here I am repeating stay (I didn't use whoa for some personal reasons) but I am nicking him each time, I was very, very green. He does a better job than me here. This is an easy bird, right along the old logging road, but a nice point, shoot and retrieve for a younger dog. Albeit the point is a little close to that bird! Honestly, this video embarrasses me now, but if you keep watching through it all you will hear my inner feelings on what I was trying to accomplish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3eYKrqU6iI&t=135s
Beautiful countryside, Did I hear some swearing in that video? LOL :)

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Re: Grouse dog

Post by Featherfinder » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:18 am

isonychia.....GREAT parallel (re the women)! Can I borrow it? :)
Your wife may not be an experienced bird shooter but the fact that she would make herself available is special! I think your new nick-name should be "Lucky".
Furthermore, she doesn't need to hit the target. Remember, you are trying to dovetail the synthetic training with live wild bird hunting. With wild bird hunting comes the occasional miss (or in my case the occasional hit). It's part and parcel of the steadiness process. In fact, it is an integral reason for keeping a pointing dog steady. What is worse than finding your dog standing, then flushing the bird, then having him/her break on the flush or shot so that your dog can either:
- run over another bird that WAS there,
- or worse yet, roughly marks where the escapee(s) landed and because he broke on the flush or shot, he ends up finding it again and re-flushing?!?! Odds of a solid point on the reflush are diminished if for no other reason than the bird is now wind-washed, as well as spooky! Things can get ugly FAST.
If you want to take some of the pressure off of your wife/assistant, have them carry a dead bird in their game vest. If there is a find and the bird is missed, have your wife fling out the already dead bird and reward your dog with a retrieve for a job well done (if he remains steady)! Your dog will still be thrilled....trust me. So will your wife. ;)

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