Big runners and heavy cover

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mrelite
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Big runners and heavy cover

Post by mrelite » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:12 pm

How the heck do you work heavy cover with a big running dog? it just seems so inefficient, unproductive and out of control, LOL spoken from a complete novice!

I am just learning to hunt with my dog, it's my first season and his, often when we go out it is in heavy cover and not flat so as soon as he gets 30 to 50 yards out I can't see him anymore and he can't see me, he will keep working at a fast pace and be out 100 to 200 yards or further, the only way to know where he is is to glance at the Astro GPS handheld. So the Astro will tell me when he goes on point which is already at a delay in real time so I'll take off in the direction and get halfway and the dog is back to moving again leaving me not knowing if birds ran or flushed which in turn leaves the dog basically hunting by himself because I can never get there quick enough and it seems it is a perfect setup for bad habits.

I have found myself not wanting to go into heavy covered areas, in open areas the dog can see me and I can see him and things seem to work much better, I can hit the beeper once and he'll either look back at me to see if I am going in a different direction or he'll just turn and keep working out in front but in heavy cover it's a whole different story.

Scaled (blue) quail is mostly what we are after although we ran into heavy cover issues pheasant hunting as well.

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:24 pm

The Astro and live with it. Once it shows 6" or so, they'll start holding and not running. Until then just stay frustrated. :D

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by wolski » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:03 pm

As much as I hate using a bell on the collar it does signal where dog is and when dog stops to point. Not a perfect solution but overall I think its an advantage.

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by slistoe » Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:12 pm

wolski wrote:As much as I hate using a bell on the collar it does signal where dog is and when dog stops to point. Not a perfect solution but overall I think its an advantage.
A bell or beeper operates in real time.

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by Trekmoor » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:00 pm

My first ever pointing dog was a Brittany and I trained her mainly over open fields for partridges and over hills and moors for grouse. She ranged out to at least 200 yards a side and she did this with few prompts from me as to when to turn back in my direction. I thought she was good so I entered her for a field trial and got a bit of a shock.

The entire trial was held in woodlands hunting for pheasants and she hunted about as wide as she always did. I got eliminated from the trial and the judges commented at the end that she'd seemed like Halley's Comet to them as she only came into view about once in every 75 years as she whizzed past us !

They were correct. That sort of hunting isn't much use in woodlands so I retrained her to deal with woods. I took her pheasant hunting and to begin with I did this where pheasants were plentiful so she did not feel any need to hunt far out from me in order to find birds. I also did a lot of work on training her to turn to whistle during this period.....in other words I trained her like a spaniel but still expected her to point.

I then moved into woods where pheasants were much fewer in number in order to ensure the close range hunting habit in woodlands was well instilled into her. It was, she began to win trials on pheasants in cover or in woods and also on grouse out on the moors. She had developed the ability to suit her hunting ranges to the ground cover.

Bill T.

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by RayGubernat » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:10 pm

Bill T told you right.

A good dog has an "elastic" range. It will stretch out when the cover opens up and close down when the cover thickens. But that does not happen all by itself. Anybody who tells you that , especially with pointers...is lying through their teeth.

It takes training for the dog to learn to stay within "YOUR' comfort zone. I train all my dogs to "hunt close" and will use that command to keep them in. Over time and repetition, the dog will anticipate and "self adjust", not because it wants to, but because it knows that there will be a command and or a correction coming its way if it does not. Heck sometimes it even works!! :lol: :lol:

It is far, far more of a possibility to pull a dog in and make it hunt close, than it is to take a dog that hunts close and push it out.

Practice turning the dog when it gets to the distance you are comfortable with, both in cover and in open terrain. Practice closing the dog's range down and making it hunt close. Practice letting the dog open up when the cover allows. A good dog will put it together.

RayG

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by polmaise » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:47 pm

mrelite wrote:How the heck do you work heavy cover with a big running dog? it just seems so inefficient, unproductive and out of control, LOL spoken from a complete novice!
Yup!
No one can teach You to read a dog .
Many get ones that have been read before that can ! and those attributes have been promoted to give you what you have .
It's not easy .If it was we would all be doing it .

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by wolski » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:27 pm

It takes training for the dog to learn to stay within "YOUR' comfort zone. I train all my dogs to "hunt close" and will use that command to keep them in. Over time and repetition, the dog will anticipate and "self adjust", not because it wants to, but because it knows that there will be a command and or a correction coming its way if it does not.



What do you suggest? On my 2 year old dog I use a combination of whislte and Garmin Pro 550 to keep her reined into my comfort zone during the hunt. I guess what I am asking is what are your specific signals to the dog? and a specific training for this? I hate to over-use the vibe stim on the 550 out of concern they eventually ignore it if overused. So I use the whistle a lot but the dog senses that as more of a request than an absolute command. Being a rookie I always question myself on how much discipline and training is effective for reining her in during a hunt and at what point I am infringing on her natural abilities and being too forceful with her. This is an excellent topic as I have similar issues as the OP.

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by slistoe » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:24 pm

wolski wrote: What do you suggest? On my 2 year old dog I use a combination of whislte and Garmin Pro 550 to keep her reined into my comfort zone during the hunt. I guess what I am asking is what are your specific signals to the dog? and a specific training for this? I hate to over-use the vibe stim on the 550 out of concern they eventually ignore it if overused. So I use the whistle a lot but the dog senses that as more of a request than an absolute command. Being a rookie I always question myself on how much discipline and training is effective for reining her in during a hunt and at what point I am infringing on her natural abilities and being too forceful with her. This is an excellent topic as I have similar issues as the OP.
If the dog sees the whistle as a "request" then you have not done your training. You are likely doing what most folk I see does - they nag their dog for life. Quit the nagging and get serious if you want your dog "trained". The hunting field is not the place nor the time for training - training takes place in all the rest of the year when you are not hunting. Then you won't have to train when you are wanting to hunt.

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by Sharon » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:45 pm

wolski wrote: What do you suggest? On my 2 year old dog I use a combination of whislte and Garmin Pro 550 to keep her reined into my comfort zone during the hunt. I guess what I am asking is what are your specific signals to the dog? and a specific training for this? I hate to over-use the vibe stim on the 550 out of concern they eventually ignore it if overused. So I use the whistle a lot but the dog senses that as more of a request than an absolute command. Being a rookie I always question myself on how much discipline and training is effective for reining her in during a hunt and at what point I am infringing on her natural abilities and being too forceful with her. This is an excellent topic as I have similar issues as the OP.
I start young in teaching the dog to change direction . ... long cc cord a command, and me changing directions with the dog- not when hunting. I use "Yoh!" As time goes by the dog will immediately change direction on command equals a dog that stays closer, turns your way at a fork in the field etc. ( You could condition from "Yoh" to a whisle command. )

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by wolski » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:37 pm

slstoe, I asked specific questions, pretty simple. Since you dont know the answer just ignore the post rather than feigning intelligence.

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by Sharon » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:54 pm

Actually he gave you and all of us very good advice. When it comes to dog training, I can assure you that he doesn't have to "feign" intelligence. :)

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by Trekmoor » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:13 am

I agree, Slistoe gave good advice. A whistled command is not a request and training should be done mainly when you are not trying to shoot game.

Bill T.

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by wolski » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:33 am

All very well. I admitted a flaw in my traiining and am asking for specific training steps that may be effective in keeping the dog within an acceptable range. I would greatly appreciate if knowledgeable persons would elaborate on their training methods,as specific as possible. Overall my grif does a good job of responding to the whistle and coming back within range. After a certin point in the hunt she seems to get impatient and wants to range further out than is effective, seems to want to hunt for herself at this point. Advice on specific mthods to get my point acrss to the dog is greatly appreciated. Ive got several dog training books that were recommended here and none cover this subject. Many thanks.

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by RayGubernat » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:14 am

wolski wrote:All very well. I admitted a flaw in my traiining and am asking for specific training steps that may be effective in keeping the dog within an acceptable range. I would greatly appreciate if knowledgeable persons would elaborate on their training methods,as specific as possible. Overall my grif does a good job of responding to the whistle and coming back within range. After a certin point in the hunt she seems to get impatient and wants to range further out than is effective, seems to want to hunt for herself at this point. Advice on specific mthods to get my point acrss to the dog is greatly appreciated. Ive got several dog training books that were recommended here and none cover this subject. Many thanks.

If you re-read my post, I think you will find what you are looking for in terms training suggestions.

The technique come by several different names, but "bending" is a term that is used quite often. You allow the dog to range forward and when the dog gets to the distance you want to establish as a maximum, you signal the dog to turn. Your particular signal is up to you. I use a physical change of direction, but you are free to use whatever signal you wish. If it does not turn... you issue a correction....immediately. I also suggested the advisability of teaching a dog to stay close, via command...regardless of the cover.

Slistoe was just helping you to understand clearly that the training should be in place PRIOR to hunting, so that you(and others in the field) do not have to endure the situation you describe.

When you ask for help, sometimes you get help you are not comfortable with. That is very often the very best help, because it can encourage you to change what you are doing and do it better.

RayG

As far as corrections are concerned...I personally use real corrections not hints or suggestions. My e-collar does not have a vibration option. If the dog does not turn when I turn, it gets a low intensity stim. If it does not turn...instantly, upon getting that low intensity stim...it gets repeated high intensity (2 or 3 levels higher), until it either stops dead in its tracks or executes the turn. the dog very quickly figures out that if it does not turn...bad things happen in rapid succession. the dog, if has any brains at all, will do what it needs to do to avoid those "bad things" happening. As I mentioned in my previous post, if I do it right, do it consistently, the dog will eventually come to a place , mentally, where it will turn as I am "thinking" about turning. It will "anticipate". THEN you have what you are seeking, but it takes time. Patience, persistence and consistency.

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by slistoe » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:50 am

Looks like Ray and Sharon have it covered for you wolski.

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by wolski » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:21 pm

Absolutely!!

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by wolski » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:22 pm

OK now I am getting somewhere. RayG used the term bending, did a google and came up with an article similar to what Sharon is describing using the CC
No book Ive ever read.
ve read, (even those highly recommended) cover this topic. When ever Ive read on this subject its treated as something that the dog learns on its own via instinct or experience and its never been treated as something that can be specifically trained for.

ps I didnt need to be told I was training my dog while hunting, not sure how that was assumed by anyone. Didnt need to be told to be a better trainer. I KNOW THAT and that is why I am here asking questions. Apologys to the OP for hijacking the thread and hope you got some needed benefit from this exchange.

Peace Out

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:48 pm

I trust my dog to know over Time what is effective range....with a younger dog that may take some learning on their part as to hunting and reward.
The nice thing is when I learn along with my dogs.
At times, when birds may be few and far between ie not on a Preserve, etc. then that stretching out or impatience in search is, to me, a darn good thing and what a swell dog does.
I see little reason to stifle swell unless danger is associated with ranging out.....just depends.
Most dogs adjust range to bird cover and bird presence, ime, when they develop experience.
Keeping within a set range on an empty 500 acre blliard table is not a plus, again, to me.

However, I would say that hunting will see opportunities to teach a dog as well as to enforce lessons already learned.
That partly has to do with the time and bird availability many of us have or do not have in our individual situations.
As I continue to learn after some 50 years of birdhunting, I see little reason to expect a dog to ever cease learning ...or being taught.
I could be wrong.

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:58 pm

I think mostly range is a matter of a new person not being comfortable with a pointing dog vs a retriever-flusher. It will be easier on you and the dog if you adjust to him rather than he to you.

Incidentally, when you start hunting spooky wild pheasant, ditch the bell or beeper or you aren't getting close to the bird.

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by mrelite » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:31 pm

Wow great stuff, I appreciate all the comments, info and suggestions!
No worries on highjacking although it doesn't promote good discussion if one gets offended.

Much of the training we have done has been in open country where he can see me and I can see him, when he gets to the edge of where I want him all I have to do is hit the beeper on his collar one time and he'll immediately turn or he will look at me to see if I am going in a different direction and as time goes on I hit the beeper less and less and more often then not we seem to be on the same page. I also hardly ever need to give him a e-collar correction in open country, what generally activates the collar is when he sees a rabbit and "most" of the time I can quickly pull him off a rabbit and then change directions so he doesn't try to follow its scent. Trappers urge to catch the rabbit is tremendous, if I let him chase he will chase it until he looses sight of it which isn't often and then he will pick up the scent and track it down until he finds it again, rinse and repeat until he is 500 yds away, I have to stop him as soon as the chase starts to keep him on track. After thinking, typing and reading everyones posts I got a hunch that part of the heavy cover issue has been a lack of birds and an abundance of other animals, if I can't see that he busts a rabbit I can't stop him from chasing them and that could be part what causes him to get out of control or so far out.

I will be working on a "hunt close" command or I may change it to "stay close" since this is what I have used when we are at the truck or just standing around somewhere although I am not sure he is understanding what Stay close actually means yet. Any other ideas then whats been posted on how to teach this command is appreciated or whatever else that you all think that may help.

As for training, since Trapper just turned one year old and it is open season right now I am taking this season as on the job training time, nothing matters except for training and learning what I want and where he is at mentally in a real world hunting scenario, training is 24/7 right now regardless of where we are, the objective is setting up the training for the rest of the year and being ready for a great hunting season next year.

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by RayGubernat » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:42 pm

mrelite wrote:
As for training, since Trapper just turned one year old and it is open season right now I am taking this season as on the job training time, nothing matters except for training and learning what I want and where he is at mentally in a real world hunting scenario, training is 24/7 right now regardless of where we are, the objective is setting up the training for the rest of the year and being ready for a great hunting season next year.

You definitely have the proper mindset.

Keep thinking:
"If I was Trapper, what would I want to do now?" We always need to stay one or two steps ahead of them. Bird dogs in the field have one thing on their mind...and it ain't standing around watching us shoot the bull.

FWIW I struggle with staying ahead of the dogs even though I have been chasing after them for nearly sixty years. Hope you get better at it than I am.

What you allow, you encourage. What you insist upon becomes the standard. Plan your work first and then go out and work your plan.

My dogs all start out in the yard doing heel/whoa drills. They get five minutes, every morning and evening for at least a year and a half and then sporadically from then on...until the day they die. I let the heel part of it slip somewhat when in the field, but I will occasionally use it to keep the dog close. Also, whoa means grow roots, right NOW and don't move so much as a toenail until released. I practice that all the time and demand on a high level of compliance, wherever and whenever. Sometimes it even works.

Good luck with your pup and its training.

To wolski:
Didn't mean to come down too hard on you.

As far as getting the dog to key off you, you might try doing some heel/whoa drills after the manner of Paul Long. I do them using a wonder lead. Getting the dog to pay attention to where your knee is and where it is going can make direction changes in the field easier, because it conditions the dog to always keep one eye on you. I do the heel/whoa drills and will change direction often, including reverse direction and the dog either follows along or the loop closes on its neck. I make a game out of it, starting and stopping abruptly, changing direction sharply and then stopping short...even backing. up(that really messes with their mind). But I do keep it fun and short, ending with a straight walk and a good stop so I can praise the dog and stroke him up. the goal is to have them keep you on their radar screen when in the field. When in the field I would change direction abruptly, even do a complete about face and walk away. This encourages the dog to pay attention and respond to our movements. when it does...a "goooood boy...allllll right" is in order. It really helps to let the dog know you are pleased with his response.

Most of us are quick to correct, but too often forget to lay on a bit of praise. I'm guilty of that too.

RayG

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by mrelite » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:43 pm

It really is a fine line between letting him work and loosing control, I will work on reading the situation quicker and the timing of commands (no nagging) and I'll try not get to frustrated if I miss the mark or if he gets away from me once in awhile. I also think that I need to do the heavy cover situations in smaller doses, I think I was diving into the deep end thinking I could swim. At this point I want the in the field outings to be successful, not so much in the sense of killing birds but to work areas without either the dog or me getting out of control, confused or frustrated, I imagine we will still get a few birds through the season doing it this way.
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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by shags » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:00 pm

Work in more open areas to get your commands and his response where you want them, then move on to thicker stuff. In the thick, if he blows you off right away and doesn’t respond to commands (or nicks), put the lead on him and take him home. Rinse and repeat.

IME people new to bird dogs worry a lot about “out of control” . For your own peace of mind don’t use that phrase; learn to think in terms of range as in “He’s running big [ or short] today”. When you think “out of control” it makes for frustration and panic, whereas range is something you can adjust. You want to foster a modicum of independence, and not be trying to control the dog too much. If you stay calm and cool thinking about adjusting range, instead of being annoyed about control, your outings will be a lot more productive as to training.

Good luck going forward, enjoy the process.

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by ckirsch » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:04 pm

I wouldn't panic at this point given your dog's young age. I hunt with AA-bred pointers that range out to 500 yards on the prairie when we're after sharptails. The same dogs hunt pheasants in heavy cattails and stay within 40-50 yards. Takes a season or two for them to figure it out, but they will.

I use the "hunt close" command, and use the beeper on their collars to let them know when they're getting out too far. My dogs learn early on that failure to turn at a beep earns them immediate stimulation. I very rarely have to nick them as they honor the beeper reliably. I can now switch back and forth between grouse and pheasant hunting and the dogs adjust immediately. Some take a couple of seasons to come around, but the three I've had all figured it out.

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by slistoe » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:21 am

wolski wrote: Ive got several dog training books that were recommended here and none cover this subject. Many thanks.
This little tidbit made for a couple of enjoyable evenings browsing through the various training books on my shelf. I can't imagine that "Best Way to Train Your Gun Dog" by Smith/Tarrant (1977) wasn't on the recommended reading list, it has a section called How to Check Cord.
"Wing and Shot" by Wehle (1964), "Gun Dog" by Wolters (1961), "Gun Dog Training Pointing Dogs" by Roebuck (1983), "The Brittany - Amateurs Training With Professionals" by Greenlee and Webb (2003) (A very good resource by the way if it can be found), "Expert Advice on Gun Dog Training" by Duffey (1977), "How to Train Hunting Dogs" by Brown (1942), "Practical Pointer Training" by Webb (1974), "Training Setters and Pointers for Field Trials" by Beazley, Manners and White-Robinson (1974), "Training and Handling of the Dog" by Kingrail (1889), "Practical Dog Training" by Hammond (1885) and the "Dobbs Library" (online) all have something in them in regards to ranging, handling, patterning, turning to whistle etc.
Books that had no practical mention of such "How to train your Bird Dog" by Lytle (1932), "Hunting Dog Know How" by Duffey (1965, "Training Pointing Dogs" by Long (1974), "Pointing Dog Training" by Bissell (No Date), and "Training and Hunting the Brittany Spaniel" by Hammond and Hammond (1981)
Of disappointment to me in this review was that I could not locate my copy of the NAVHDA Manual and have no recollection of who I may have lent it to...
I did not look through any of the video/DVD's

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by bustingcover » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:06 am

mrelite wrote: Much of the training we have done has been in open country where he can see me and I can see him, when he gets to the edge of where I want him all I have to do is hit the beeper on his collar one time and he'll immediately turn or he will look at me to see if I am going in a different direction and as time goes on I hit the beeper less and less and more often then not we seem to be on the same page. I also hardly ever need to give him a e-collar correction in open country, what generally activates the collar is when he sees a rabbit and "most" of the time I can quickly pull him off a rabbit and then change directions so he doesn't try to follow its scent. Trappers urge to catch the rabbit is tremendous, if I let him chase he will chase it until he looses sight of it which isn't often and then he will pick up the scent and track it down until he finds it again, rinse and repeat until he is 500 yds away, I have to stop him as soon as the chase starts to keep him on track.
Hit him HARD when he's off-game or in this case on rabbits. This will get him to associate rabbits with zero fun at all instead of a really interesting smelling fun chase. If you hit him enough times when you see a rabbit or even set him up by putting a rabbit out for him to find without your help and then fire him up you shouldnt have a problem with him chasing them again.
mrelite wrote: After thinking, typing and reading everyones posts I got a hunch that part of the heavy cover issue has been a lack of birds and an abundance of other animals, if I can't see that he busts a rabbit I can't stop him from chasing them and that could be part what causes him to get out of control or so far out.
I would stop going into the heavy cover if you're not finding birds. Set you and the dog up for success. Stay in the open fields, get that handling down and get into more birds. Sounds like the thick stuff is an all around waste of time.

As for you original question I just like the dog roll. Over time you'll be able to figure out what the dog is doing just by being out with him so many times. Let the pup roll and find his legs then reign him in if he isn't learning how to adapt when hes grown. I

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by cjhills » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:36 am

mrelite:
The thing is one man's out of control is another man's great bird dog.
it is difficult to hunt birds in heavy cover. That is just a issue you have to learn to live with. The dog and you have to learn to get it done. Experience will teach this. The range of the dog has little, if anything to do with the success of the hunt. If the point is 50 yards or 200 yards makes no difference if the bird runs or flies before you get there.
I have never trained a dog to control his range. My dogs have ranged from cornfield pheasant dogs to huge running GSPs with a good shot of pointer blood. They all learned to adjust their range to the cover. Pointing dogs by their nature have to learn to hunt out of control. It seems like a waste to spend time training to control range on a dog which you will not be able to see anyway. He will probably need to be broke off of rabbits and deer.
This dog is very young and to expect too much to soon can cause issues. Give chance him a to learn how to hunt. If you can hunt in big open country where you can see each other it will help. Change direction when he is at 3 or 4 hundred yards and he should learn to change with you.
I suppose there are run off dogs who hunt by themselves. I don't know because I never had one. They always show up at the truck about the same time I do or they are standing somewhere. Thank god and Garmin for the Astro...................Cj

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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by mrelite » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:47 am

We finally found an area that had a bunch of birds, lots of open country and a perfect amount of thick cover, I let him do his thing in the open and when we went through the thick areas (which were not huge) I worked on turning him close with the beeper and saying "stay close" at times I would not use the beeper and just say "Atta boy...stay close" I think he did pretty good!

We were on lots of Gambles and man was it fun! we had a hard time breaking up the large covey's they seemed to always be running before we got close enough, we did split up a few covey's and got the birds chirping, we ended up with 6 birds. Trapper would sight point the last bird then it would run to another bush he would see it run and adjust, this would go on for a little ways then that bird would fly and the whole covey would fly off together and we would try again, Trapper put in 35 miles in 5 hours and couldn't hardly get out of his kennel the next morning

But holy rabbit!! I have never seen such a concentration of rabbits, when I could see him getting ready to chase I would tell him leave it and if he didn't he got corrected and we continued on but if he was in a spot to where I couldn't see him and he got on a rabbit... he was gone! I have the Sportdog 425 and for rabbits it is on the second level at the highest setting and he just powers through it and disappears. I also need to improve his recall when he is 4 or 500 yards away, the whistling command seems to be very weak at that distance mostly when I can't see him. I can see on the Astro that he starts moving towards me then it will seem like he hits on another rabbit and goes in another direction although it could be birds as well so I tend to refrain from correcting him when I don't really know whats going on so I wait to whistle until I see him coming in the right direction. I hate rabbits!!!
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mrelite
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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by mrelite » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:51 am

Here is another pic that didn't get attached to the last post
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bustingcover
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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by bustingcover » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:31 pm

Beautiful dog. For the rabbit or any other game you don't want him chasing don't mess around with the leave it stuff. He's just learning that if you're around you're gonna tell him not to but if you're not there its open season. When he sees or begins to chase a rabbit hammer him with the collar. It doesn't need to be a nag or uncomfortable this is aversion training. The rabbit needs to be a hot stove that he touches once and learns not to touch again.

polmaise
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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by polmaise » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:27 pm

mrelite wrote:I hate rabbits!!!
Curiously , I love rabbits.
But then I'm probably hunting and training all breeds on them for different reasons on your side of the pond .
Great levellers for most .

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ezzy333
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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:13 pm

I love rabbits too. Best wild meat there is.

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SetterNut
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Re: Big runners and heavy cover

Post by SetterNut » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:08 pm

I generally am not concerned with having big range. I feel it as a good thing. Once you have a dog that will stand its birds as long as it takes you to get there, your good to go. I have a dog that is often over 800 yards quail hunting. He is a covey finding master. It may take me 20 minutes to get to him, but I know he is going to be there.

I have an alpha which is a must with him. Whistles and beepers are of no use at those ranges with any wind. He is trained to return on the tone from the collar which is very useful.

Experienced dogs adjust to the cover. But I want a pointing dog covering as much ground for me as possible, and to be standing there on birds when I get there.

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