Boykin Spaniel/Labrador Comparison

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MaverickLab
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Boykin Spaniel/Labrador Comparison

Post by MaverickLab » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:27 pm

I currently own a 1 year old, 75Ib. yellow lab. We are thinking about getting a second dog and I am intrigued by Boykin Spaniels. We primarily duck hunt so a lab makes sense but I can't imagine having two large labs in the house. I know you can get smaller labs but those bloodlines come with a pretty steep price tag (the breeders I am aware of). Our current lab we got from a family that bred their pet lab and we have trained him ourselves to hunt. He needs a lot more real hunting experience before I'd say he's a bang up dog but we will get there.

Boykins keep popping up as smaller waterfowl dogs. I have only hunted over and worked with labs so I have no experience with trainability, or how Boykins behave in general. I just have a lot of specific questions about how they compare to the lab.

Are they easy for owners to train themselves? We would ideally train this dog ourselves too but are they as willing to please as a lab?

How much maintenance is needed on their coat? The hair is longer but does it require regular clipping? Can this be done at home or do you need a groomer?

Are they a very vocal dog? We are fine with barking when they hear someone at the door but not continuous barking when people come in the house. Also would prefer they not be yappy when they get excited or are playing.

I keep hearing they can't handle the cold but is that really true or just depends on the individual dog? Our lab showed this season he didn't like the cold water but my previous lab didn't seem to mind at all so it makes me think some dogs are just tougher than others.

This is more of a particular preference but how are they off leash? We like to hike and when it's not crowded we let our lab off leash. He pretty much sticks to the trail and will only range so far in front of us before stopping to check in. Also he is good with recall so we know he will come when called. Are Boykins prone to bolt or run off at any sight or smell? Are they sharp with good recall training or more stubborn?

Any answers to these questions or other advice on Boykins or Labs is welcome!

KCKLH
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Re: Boykin Spaniel/Labrador Comparison

Post by KCKLH » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:51 am

Just my two cents but...
Nothing beats a lab as a waterfowl dog. Period.
As for Boykins never even seen one but I imagine a rare breed like that is going to cost you about as much as a lot of those smaller lab pups will.
Every dog is an individual with its own temperament.
Some spaniel breeds generally require more space and energy than many labs. Not sure if this is the case for Boykins but something Id look into.
Small with long mud gathering fur is definitely not a combination of traits Id look for in a retriever.
None of what I have said matters if you really find the breed interesting and want to give it a shot. Theyre dogs. Get what makes you happiest and work with that. Contrary to popular belief not every dog has to be able to blind retrieve a wounded honker 1000 yards out across frozen rapids in subzero weather.

Good luck.

Steve007
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Re: Boykin Spaniel/Labrador Comparison

Post by Steve007 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:04 am

Look into an American Water Spaniel. A better choice for some people. And they don't call them " Water Spaniels" for no reason. Lots of info available on the internet, especially by Dave Duffy. Though if you've got a year-old lab that you're still working on, postponement of dog #2 is a very good idea. imo.

fishvik
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Re: Boykin Spaniel/Labrador Comparison

Post by fishvik » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:27 am

While I don't own one I've seen a few. And I'm very impressed with them. They are like the Everready Bunny when it comes to energy in the field, but their owners say they are quiet in the house. They seem to be very alert and trainable and are usually very quiet.. They seem to be small water waterfowl dogs and might be very challenged by large reservoirs, lakes or rivers with current. As for tolerance for cold, one that I know, that is used for hunting, doubles as an avalanche rescue dog in the mountains of eastern Idaho and western Wyoming. Definitely a cold place in the winter. As with most spaniels they need coat care, but Boykins are bred for the field not the show ring so their coats are far more manageable. They are definitely on my list as a next dog.

MaverickLab
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Re: Boykin Spaniel/Labrador Comparison

Post by MaverickLab » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:36 am

Steve007 wrote:Look into an American Water Spaniel. A better choice for some people. And they don't call them " Water Spaniels" for no reason. Lots of info available on the internet, especially by Dave Duffy. Though if you've got a year-old lab that you're still working on, postponement of dog #2 is a very good idea. imo.
I will look into them. Thanks for the recommendation. This is all just trying to get the facts straight so when the time is right to get a new puppy I’ll know what I’m looking for. I want to get a dog that has the ability to hunt but just like our first dog we knew he may not have the drive and just be a pet. If the new dog doesn’t want to hunt then we will be happy just having a family pet and companion for our lab.

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crackerd
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Re: Boykin Spaniel/Labrador Comparison

Post by crackerd » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:51 pm

fishvik wrote:While I don't own one I've seen a few. And I'm very impressed with them. They are like the Everready Bunny when it comes to energy in the field, but their owners say they are quiet in the house. They seem to be very alert and trainable and are usually very quiet.. They seem to be small water waterfowl dogs and might be very challenged by large reservoirs, lakes or rivers with current. As for tolerance for cold, one that I know, that is used for hunting, doubles as an avalanche rescue dog in the mountains of eastern Idaho and western Wyoming. Definitely a cold place in the winter. As with most spaniels they need coat care, but Boykins are bred for the field not the show ring so their coats are far more manageable. They are definitely on my list as a next dog.
Indeed, fishvik - 25 years' worth of attesting to their reputation here as a crackerjack gundog and retriever. Boykins are a "rare breed" only in the "rare places" you find them outside the South. But since they went for AKC recognition a few years ago, the price tag has spiked. It's on the buyer to decide whether the puppy price equates to the package you're getting with a well-bred Boykin. From my experience, I'd give that a great, big "Affirmative!"

MG

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Re: Boykin Spaniel/Labrador Comparison

Post by polmaise » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:02 pm

crackerd wrote: It's on the buyer to decide whether the puppy price equates to the package you're getting with a well-bred Boykin. From my experience, I'd give that a great, big "Affirmative!"

MG
would be the same for any ?

fishvik
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Re: Boykin Spaniel/Labrador Comparison

Post by fishvik » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:08 pm

crackerd wrote: Boykins are a "rare breed" only in the "rare places" you find them outside the South.
Cracked, that's my problem, I've only seen one breeder within 500 miles of SE Idaho. I would love to look for one in the southeast though and combine it with a crappie and brim fishing trip.

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Re: Boykin Spaniel/Labrador Comparison

Post by Bedight » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:37 am

Friend and hunting partner bought a Boykin pup last Summer. He gave him to me to train until he recovers from a broken pelvis. I've had him for six months and can tell you what my experience has been related to the questions you have.

Owner Training: No more difficult than any other dogs I've had ( I've trained, Setters, Chessies, GSPs, Brittanys, and Cockers). More willing to please than any other dog I've trained. More of a one person dog than I've had. Retrieves as well as any I've seen, does struggle with crippled geese but never fails to bring them in. Obediance training was easily accomplished with he exception of 'heel', Like most Spaniels he wants to hunt and chafes at having to walk, he does it but it's clear he doesn't' want to. Haven't started flushing training yet so can't comment on his upland bird hunting ability.

Willing to please: More willing to please than any other dog I've had.

Cold, rough water capability: My property borders on the Skagit river and I have a small 20 acre lake nearby. Lake has a half an each of ice, pup swims in it breaking ice every day, swims across the glacier fed river, which runs at 6 knots, with the neighbors Chessie to chase the pigeons on the far side. He does not seem to notice the cold. The current carries him down stream 4 or 5 hundred yards before he makes the opposite bank, he knows enough to run up river 1000 yards before crossing back so he lands where he started. I think he learned that from the Chessie.

Coat Maintenance: Thick ,curly coat is hard to dry. Holds water and promotes bacterial growth if not dried. Summer it's best to trim the body close early so that it grows back before winter. I did it myself this year, worked ok but didn't look too great. I need more practice. Some strains of Boykins have an almost flat coat, like a Lab, and some have a medium curly coat and still others have extremely curly and dense coats.

Barking: I don't tolerate barking in the house. Anybody I like, he likes and is quiet, If I am agitated or nervous around someone he will stiffen up and maybe growl. Around the house, the neighbors, the grandkids, the live stock he is quiet and calm. He is the only critter that our Mane Coon will tolerate, they often can be found sleeping together in the barn. I do allow him to bark when someone opens the gate to our drive way. He stops barking on command.

Off leash handling: On the trail, anywhere that seems birdy, he will hunt. He will chase fur, especially small critters, rabbit, weasel, squirrels, unless I stop him. He will always come when I call and heel when told. He does not chase deer, elk, sheep, cattle, bears or Cougar. He will walk the trail if there are no critters within scent range or if I call him off of hunt. I'm sure that he could be broken from chasing fur with some intensive ecollar work.

P.S. One of the Boykin's claims to fame is that he can be used to hunt Fall Turkey. I tried this last Fall with no preparation or training, assuming it would be a disaster, but the dog's bred in instincts kicked in and he performed like he had been hunting Turkeys for years. Stayed quiet for two hours in field while he hunted for a flock. When he detected a flock nearing our position he slowed and his tail fired up. He busted the flock and then returned to me. He sat still and quiet while I tried to call the singles back to me. Unfortunately all the birds that answered my calls were Jennies, soI didn't get to see what the Boykin would do If I shot a Tom.

The only downside I can see to these little dynamos is that they suffer from a number of ailments common to Spaniels, ear infection, skin diseases, hip dysplasia and Excercised Induced Collapse.

Also because there are relatively few breeders of Boykin Hunting strains outside of the Carolinas, the best bred and healthiest dogs can cost $1000 for a pup.

Still, if didn't already have three setters I'd get one of these little guys.

I'd go see a few of these guys before you decide.

DennisCanfield
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Re: Boykin Spaniel/Labrador Comparison

Post by DennisCanfield » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:43 am

fishvik wrote:
crackerd wrote: Boykins are a "rare breed" only in the "rare places" you find them outside the South.
Cracked, that's my problem, I've only seen one breeder within 500 miles of SE Idaho. I would love to look for one in the southeast though and combine it with a crappie and brim fishing trip.
Well, now you are not the only one with that problem. Will let you know if I got any useful info soon.

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Re: Boykin Spaniel/Labrador Comparison

Post by Steve007 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:04 pm

Certainly genuinely good comments by bedight. There is supposed to be a high incidence of hip dysplasia in both American Water Spaniels and Boykins, so making sure parents are OFA-certified just makes. AWS are not a Southern dog (official state dog of Wisconsin), so finding a quality dog and breeder outside of the south is much more likely.

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