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Help on pup

Help on pup

Postby maverick351 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:42 pm

Looking at a 7 month old pup. Good breeding but the owner didnt really do much for training and no house manners other than house broken. Says he took the dog to the field but wasnt very good is all he really says. He really has no idea as its his first dog ever and he really just started hunting but doesnt know much. Is the dog even worth being interested in? Its a great price and I like her just not sure how much of a hole Im getting into that Ill have to climb out of with the bad habbits.
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Re: Help on pup

Postby shags » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:17 pm

Can you engage the guy in some general bird dog conversation, and sleith out some answers? Like, ask him what brand of ecollar he likes, and how he uses it? Or what is his favorite method of gun intro? Don’t ask in regards to the dog because obviously he isn’t being very forthright, but try to get a feel for what he might have done so far. Or explain your methods and ask his opinion.

Can you go have a look and see the dog work before you commit?

I would be suspicious that the guy did something that messed up the dog, since he is so reluctant to say anything. I’ve seen dogs be able to come back from some pretty bad screw ups and turn out real nice; but I know a few that couldn’t be turned around. Best to see for yoirself, or to get him to give you more info.
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Re: Help on pup

Postby isonychia » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:28 pm

Has the dog been fixed already? Lots of folks still get it done too early, 7 months IMHO is too early.
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Re: Help on pup

Postby maverick351 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:37 pm

Dog hasnt been fixed. He doesnt honestly know about hunting with dogs at all. He sae it on tv tbought it was cool jumped in head first. He has a cheap petsmart e collar that he tried to use in the house to break her from getting on counters. I dont know but I doubt hes done much wrong other then have no discipline with the dog. He paid to send her to some obedience school but said he didnt have the time to actually work her to do his part. He thought when he sent her ahe would comeback. All trained and ready. He just hasnt done much. She shows she needs someone to help show whos alpha and teach her.
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Re: Help on pup

Postby isonychia » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:50 pm

I wouldnt use avoidance ecollar work until a year plus, 7 months is still in the conditioning phase and beginning transition from check chord. Not sure what this will mean for the puppy. I think I would view this as a rescue dog, which is not necessarily a bad thing, will this be your first bird dog? If so, you may want to pass on a rescue until you have some experience, just my two cents.
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Re: Help on pup

Postby Steve007 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:01 pm

If he "took him to the field" and he doesn't know much about bird dogs, there's at least a chance that he created a gunshy dog. And that ISN''T easy to fix. Get the dog to a fenced training area at a preserve that has pigeons, let him chase a few and then just fire a blank gun when he's hard chasing. Or pay the preserve owner 75 bucks (or whatever) for an evaluation. Nothing in the world wrong with getting an untrained well-bred 7-month old dog..unless there are problems. You need information,and there's one best way to get it.
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Re: Help on pup

Postby isonychia » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:13 pm

I have used ecollar to break a hard dog chasing deer pre 1 year with great success and counter hopping close to a year, just to counter my previous comment. I had worked with trainers and read ten million books and asked on this forum first though and I viewed this as a safety issue as, at the time, I worked on a ranch and a dog that chases cattle or horses, etc can end up bening shot by a pissed off rancher so it was fairly necessary to do this work as soon as the dog showed proper maturity. What makes me nervous is that a guy, who likely didnt know exactly how to use an ecollar, was using one on a dog that he 'took to the field'. Like mentioned above, see how the dog acts around birds and blanks, also watch its reaction to having the collar placed on it. When I say view this as a rescue, I mean do this with the idea you might be saving this dogs life AND hope to get a good bird dog. Which is a little different than buying a fresh pup or professionally started dog, where you have a pretty good idea that the dog can be what you shape it in to.
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Re: Help on pup

Postby Meller » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:22 pm

Take a bird with you, when you go to see the pup, lock its wings and see what the pup acts like around the bird. (pigeon or Quail) I wouldn't worry to much at 7 months old, myself!
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Re: Help on pup

Postby Featherfinder » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:07 am

It really doesn't matter to me personally how much of a "deal" this pup is. A really well bred prospect with a pedigree that has an inherent value might cost you $500. If you think that is too much, then you need to calculate what the cost of making a poor decision on a dog that might perhaps turn out "OK" - a dog that will bring with it an on-going cost accrued over approximately 15+ or so years. That's one heck of a price to pay for a mistake! But then again...we do have rescues services so...no problem, right?
I really struggle with the concept of a "deal" pup/dog when I consider the over-all cost of acquiring, training and maintaining a well-bred working specimen.
The old boys used to say, "It costs the same to keep maintain a good dog versus a piece of ____ dog."
So, what about this dog - it's genetics/breeding, it's sire/dam, it's health, it's demeanor, it's natural abilities? That is a priority, but again that's just me. Without these entry level considerations, I won't take a dog for free, knowing what the ensuing costs will be to develop a dog that might potentially turn out reasonably acceptable.....maybe.
I'm not even going to take cursory consideration of any issues this dog might bring with it from the get-go that you will need to resolve just to get to square one.
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Re: Help on pup

Postby NEhomer » Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:35 am

Featherfinder wrote:It really doesn't matter to me personally how much of a "deal" this pup is. A really well bred prospect with a pedigree that has an inherent value might cost you $500. If you think that is too much, then you need to calculate what the cost of making a poor decision on a dog that might perhaps turn out "OK" - a dog that will bring with it an on-going cost accrued over approximately 15+ or so years. That's one heck of a price to pay for a mistake! But then again...we do have rescues services so...no problem, right?
I really struggle with the concept of a "deal" pup/dog when I consider the over-all cost of acquiring, training and maintaining a well-bred working specimen.
The old boys used to say, "It costs the same to keep maintain a good dog versus a piece of ____ dog."
So, what about this dog - it's genetics/breeding, it's sire/dam, it's health, it's demeanor, it's natural abilities? That is a priority, but again that's just me. Without these entry level considerations, I won't take a dog for free, knowing what the ensuing costs will be to develop a dog that might potentially turn out reasonably acceptable.....maybe.
I'm not even going to take cursory consideration of any issues this dog might bring with it from the get-go that you will need to resolve just to get to square one.


This ^^^

Plain and simple.
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Re: Help on pup

Postby DonF » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:11 am

if I was to go look at this dog and consider buying it, I'd make the choice based on the dog, not the owner that hasn't clue on what he's talking about. Field bred dog's generally have redeeming qualities. Maybe not as a horseback trial dog but as a hunter. Or maybe as a NSTRA trial dog if you want. If you like the dog for the sake of the dog, buy it, you may be surprised. If you just can't find it in you, walk away. My though now is you shouldn't get the dog, You haven't said anything I'd consider positive about it, att your thought's sound negative to me.

There was a pup wasting away in a kennel. The guy that ended up with him saw him and wanted to take him for a walk. The only redeeming quality he seemed to have was a desire to hunt, the wrong way but the desire was there. The guy bought the dog on a whim, he just liked the dog. He named the dog Guard Rail and the rest is history!
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Re: Help on pup

Postby CDN_Cocker » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:55 am

Sounds like he wouldn't know if the dog was any good or not. From your description the dog hasn't had proper training to be able to showcase it's worth and at 7 months it's early anyways. If the price was right and the dog isn't straight up neurotic I'd jump on it. Very few people ever look back on a dog's life and wish they would've passed it up.
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Re: Help on pup

Postby Steve007 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:51 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote:Sounds like he wouldn't know if the dog was any good or not. From your description the dog hasn't had proper training to be able to showcase it's worth and at 7 months it's early anyways. If the price was right and the dog isn't straight up neurotic I'd jump on it. Very few people ever look back on a dog's life and wish they would've passed it up.



It's pretty easy for a guy who knows nothing to "take the young dog to the field" and make him gunshy. And not so easy to overcome. Never mind misuse of an ecollar. It's not hard to identify these problems. I'd be careful under the circumstances.
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