just introduced pup to birds

[BuckeyeSteve]

So...I'm clearly not good at this! I'm following the Training with Mo book and videos to the best of my ability. Per his direction, I attempted to introduce my 14 week old Brit to birds yesterday. 2 of my 4 $10 Chukars flew away as I was trying to get one out of the box (bye bye 1/2 my training and $20!). The third one I let the dog sniff, got him excited, waved it around like a toy, then I planted it off my quad in a field behind my house, then when I got there 10 minutes later with Rosco, we never found it to flush. Walked all over that field for an hour....no where to be found. So I grabbed the fourth and final bird, planted it in a smaller bit of heavy cover in a different field...I had the dog waiting 75 yards away, so was back within 2 minutes. That bird was no where to be found. Dog smelled it...looked for it.... gone. I planted it hard, too, to make sure it would be there.
I'm not completely unhappy... dog saw and smelled the bird, got excited, and had a fun walk around a nice field...but I really would have loved for my 40.00 to end in the dog seeing that a bird could flush out of a field.

[shags]

Sorry about your experience with chukars.

IME chukars fly well and run so aren't ideal for a little inexperienced pup ( although I love them for training further down the line). Next time get some quail because they don't tend to fly as well - and if they do, they weaken and barely pop if you get a flush or two more out of them. Or get pigeons, which you can tether to a pole*.

*Get a 10-12 foot length of one inch pvc pipe and drill a hole through the top. Tie a 30 foot or longer cord into the hole, and stick the other end in the ground, in an area with long grass and no tall brush or trees. Tether the pigeon to the cord ( I use a piece of elastic between the bird and the cord) then lightly plant the bird. Bring the pup in and let him find the bird. If the bird flushes it can only go as far as the cord is long. You can walk the dog out of the area, then bring him back to find the bird again.

Pigeon poles are great for young pups and breaking dogs when you don't have homers. You can use several poles in different places in your training area. It helps instead of sticking the pole in the ground, to use shorter lengths of larger diameter pvc, and just stick the long pole into them.

Amish auctions usually have pigeons for sale. Around here they go for $2-4 depending on who's bidding. Or you might put a card up on the feed mill bulletin board for them, or for permission to trap in barns. Look around for local training groups; sometimes members have leads to birds.

[Gordon Guy]

*Get a 10-12 foot length of one inch pvc pipe and drill a hole through the top. Tie a 30 foot or longer cord into the hole, and stick the other end in the ground, in an area with long grass and no tall brush or trees. Tether the pigeon to the cord ( I use a piece of elastic between the bird and the cord) then lightly plant the bird. Bring the pup in and let him find the bird. If the bird flushes it can only go as far as the cord is long. You can walk the dog out of the area, then bring him back to find the bird again.

Pigeon poles are great for young pups and breaking dogs when you don't have homers. You can use several poles in different places in your training area. It helps instead of sticking the pole in the ground, to use shorter lengths of larger diameter pvc, and just stick the long pole into them.

I've done this with Chukar too...or something similar attached a 10" piece of yarn / string to the leg and tie it off to a bush or stick. You only want to do this a time or two. You don't want pup to think they just walk right in and get the bird. keep pup on the check cord / leash so you can control the situation.

Watch a youtube video on how to plant birds so they stay where you put them... Most of the time anyway. It doesn't always work out even for the "Experts", stuff happens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpvIyuYUub0

depending on the level of desire/prey drive in your pup ...if pup needs some encouragement and hasn't been around birds at all consider clipping one wing on the first bird and just release it in plain sight (No tether) and let pup chase. That way pup can associate the scent of that bird with future contacts while walking through the grass. Consider using a field with light cover like a mowed hay field, instead of one with thick CRP grass. You should make it easy for a 14 week old pup to find the bird to build confidence. My $0.02

[BuckeyeSteve]

I've been trying to figure out where to go trap pigeons, but with no luck. I just sent some emails to local feed stores, farms, etc....but I don't see many pigeons around when I'm driving. I live near pittsburgh, but don't know if it's legal to trap or net pigeons in PA (or specifically in the city) or not.....and hate to get arrested and make the paper for "animal cruelty" or something of the like. I just did a search for "Amish Auctions" and "mud sales" in my area, but nothing noteworthy came up.
I'd REALLY like to trap pigeons....but I'm having a hard time getting started (not that I've done much other than some web searching). I'll call the PA game commission tomorrow and try to find more on legality.

As a related note...there is a good bit on the interwebz along the lines of "what's happened to all of Pittsburgh's pigeons".. multiple articles and forum discussions talking about the disappearance of pigeons in the last 5 years or so.

[shags]

Have you tried calling pest control companies? They might give you birds, or at least the info you seek.

[BuckeyeSteve]

Have you tried calling pest control companies? They might give you birds, or at least the info you seek.

I called two, and they said they don't ever trap pigeons. One told me (a bigger on in Pgh) that they've trapped one pigeon in 10 years. I don't know why that would be....

[BuckeyeSteve]

I've done this with Chukar too...or something similar attached a 10" piece of yarn / string to the leg and tie it off to a bush or stick. You only want to do this a time or two. You don't want pup to think they just walk right in and get the bird. keep pup on the check cord / leash so you can control the situation.

Watch a youtube video on how to plant birds so they stay where you put them... Most of the time anyway. It doesn't always work out even for the "Experts", stuff happens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpvIyuYUub0

depending on the level of desire/prey drive in your pup ...if pup needs some encouragement and hasn't been around birds at all consider clipping one wing on the first bird and just release it in plain sight (No tether) and let pup chase. That way pup can associate the scent of that bird with future contacts while walking through the grass. Consider using a field with light cover like a mowed hay field, instead of one with thick CRP grass. You should make it easy for a 14 week old pup to find the bird to build confidence. My $0.02

Thanks Gordon. That was a good video. I posted a question to the video, but I'll ask you also.... how does the bird with brailed wings flush and not get eaten by the dog? Can it untangle it's wings? In hindsight, I def should have planted one "asleep"... better yet, I shouldn't have let the first 2 escape.

I've got quail ordered, but they won't be ready for use until probably July.... even then I'm worried they won't be flighty b/c (as of yet) I don't have a flight pen, just a large coup. I'm working on a return hutch, but it won't hold all the quail I ordered. I've got some figuring out to do...

[deseeker]

Look in to joining a NAVHDA Club--You can usually buy birds from them plus you can usually get some mentoring help during their training days. Plus they usually have a couple launchers. You might also find someone at the club that wants to train more than just training days. It's good having a helper Have fun and enjoy your pup,

[BuckeyeSteve]

Look in to joining a NAVHDA Club--You can usually buy birds from them plus you can usually get some mentoring help during their training days. Plus they usually have a couple launchers. You might also find someone at the club that wants to train more than just training days. It's good having a helper Have fun and enjoy your pup,

I'd love to, but looked into it and there are no local clubs. There's not much in the way of bird dog clubs or competitions of any kind around here that I can find. I found one local club (1/2 hour away), which didn't seem like much of an established club from what I could tell, and they said they weren't taking new members.

[isonychia]

Make sure you check around bridge overpasses for trapping birds. I would recommend just building a loft. Dont look too far into the local rules on it, I have found that nobody even notices them, get white pigeons and everyone will think they are white doves, then you can hire them out for weddings or sell them to the Pope.

[shags]

Look in to joining a NAVHDA Club--You can usually buy birds from them plus you can usually get some mentoring help during their training days. Plus they usually have a couple launchers. You might also find someone at the club that wants to train more than just training days. It's good having a helper Have fun and enjoy your pup,

I'd love to, but looked into it and there are no local clubs. There's not much in the way of bird dog clubs or competitions of any kind around here that I can find. I found one local club (1/2 hour away), which didn't seem like much of an established club from what I could tell, and they said they weren't taking new members.

Ain't buying it.

There are more than a few bird dog groups around. They may not be right across the road, so you might have to do a little driving.

Check the AKC website for events. Then contact the event chairman or secretary listed.

Check the AKC site for pointing breed clubs in PA also. These groups usually have their membership spread out, so you might find someone relatively close by. Don't neglect to contact people in breeds other than your own. You can ask the contact person if the club sponsors field events, and for info to find participants.

Check The American Field, they list events and contact people.

Through the folks you find above, or through Google, find a pro trainer. Some are willing to work with amateurs.

There are hunt clubs in the area - try Hillendale or Warriors Mark. They may be able to give you leads.

[Gordon Guy]

I've done this with Chukar too...or something similar attached a 10" piece of yarn / string to the leg and tie it off to a bush or stick. You only want to do this a time or two. You don't want pup to think they just walk right in and get the bird. keep pup on the check cord / leash so you can control the situation.

Watch a youtube video on how to plant birds so they stay where you put them... Most of the time anyway. It doesn't always work out even for the "Experts", stuff happens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpvIyuYUub0

depending on the level of desire/prey drive in your pup ...if pup needs some encouragement and hasn't been around birds at all consider clipping one wing on the first bird and just release it in plain sight (No tether) and let pup chase. That way pup can associate the scent of that bird with future contacts while walking through the grass. Consider using a field with light cover like a mowed hay field, instead of one with thick CRP grass. You should make it easy for a 14 week old pup to find the bird to build confidence. My $0.02

Thanks Gordon. That was a good video. I posted a question to the video, but I'll ask you also.... how does the bird with brailed wings flush and not get eaten by the dog? Can it untangle it's wings? In hindsight, I def should have planted one "asleep"... better yet, I shouldn't have let the first 2 escape.

I've got quail ordered, but they won't be ready for use until probably July.... even then I'm worried they won't be flighty b/c (as of yet) I don't have a flight pen, just a large coup. I'm working on a return hutch, but it won't hold all the quail I ordered. I've got some figuring out to do...

I like messing with puppies, I'm envious, I wish I had one right now.

In my Opinion I would only use a brailed winged bird one time. And that would be the first time the pup encounters birds to build desire. No they can't untangle themselves. You let them mouth the bird, up until the time pups starts treating it harshly, I don't let my puppies tear them up or kill a bird. Have your pup on a leash so you can catch it if needed. Gordon's are generally soft mouthed. My dogs carry live animals like frogs and such into the house and let them go.. It makes for some exciting moments... Personally I don't brail their wings I just clip one wing, The bird moves around better and if you intend to keep the birds and reuse them like I do, the feathers grow back, assuming the bird is still alive after the pup is done.

Also, be careful....pen raised quail have probably caused just about as many problems with pointing dogs as any thing else. People will put a pen raised quail (Most don't fly well) down in the grass and then let pup, without a leash, get as close to the bird as pup wants. All the while they are hoping pup will stop and point somewhere in the scent cone. Before you know it, pup is right on top of the bird and reaches down and picks it up. Pups owner thinks I bought 5 birds lets use them up and says, "lets see what pup does on the next bird". Now the pup thinks, I caught the last bird and I'll catch this one too (Because pen raised quail don't often fly well) and it runs right in and picks up the next one... rinse and repeat... until a habit is formed and now you have a pup that thinks it can catch every bird. Now you have to re-teach... which is hard to do, for me anyway.

Pen Raised quail are best used during the breaking process (After a pup knows what point is about and you are teaching manners around birds) and not during the early stages of building drive and desire.

I'm blessed. I have plenty of wild birds out my back door and with the exception of introductions to a clipped wing bird/s the number of which depends on the need to build confidence and desire, like I mentioned above, my training process requires a pup to start hunting and pointing wild birds so I can walk in front of the pointing dog and flush them. That usually happens anywhere from them being 6 months to a year old. At which time I pull them off birds and teach "Whoa". After they have "whoa" down, I then introduce pen raised birds in a controlled situations to teach manners. The level of obedience to "Whoa" is such that pigeons can walk around on the ground at their feet without them moving. I use homers for that process. I want game birds to be thought of in a good way and not related to obedience work.

https://www.facebook.com/Gordonguy12/vi ... 051642449/ The Gordon is mine and I'm holding the video camera. Zoli is not yet 2 yrs old. They're pointing a pair of Huns. It appears that Zoli is backing but both dogs hit the scent cone at the same time and established point.

If I were you I would take pup for walks in areas that have wild birds and let the pup explore, build confidence and teach itself how to hunt and keep track of you in the woods and fields. You have a lot of time to put birds in front of him.

Sorry for the long answer.

[BuckeyeSteve]

GordonGuy.... long great answer -- I appreciate it!

[DonF]

So...I'm clearly not good at this! I'm following the Training with Mo book and videos to the best of my ability. Per his direction, I attempted to introduce my 14 week old Brit to birds yesterday. 2 of my 4 $10 Chukars flew away as I was trying to get one out of the box (bye bye 1/2 my training and $20!). The third one I let the dog sniff, got him excited, waved it around like a toy, then I planted it off my quad in a field behind my house, then when I got there 10 minutes later with Rosco, we never found it to flush. Walked all over that field for an hour....no where to be found. So I grabbed the fourth and final bird, planted it in a smaller bit of heavy cover in a different field...I had the dog waiting 75 yards away, so was back within 2 minutes. That bird was no where to be found. Dog smelled it...looked for it.... gone. I planted it hard, too, to make sure it would be there.
I'm not completely unhappy... dog saw and smelled the bird, got excited, and had a fun walk around a nice field...but I really would have loved for my 40.00 to end in the dog seeing that a bird could flush out of a field.

The problem with pen raised game bird's. $20 and not even one piece of work. Now if those were pigeons and you'd settled them, when they flew they would go back to your loft to fly again tomorrow! I kno a lot of people that have chukar's like that. They go out to train they take along a half dozen birds and come home with none. Chucker's are supposed to go to a johnny house, I don't know. But before you can do that you need private property to put the house on. At a trial ground near here it's set up just abut the same, but the house they keep the birds in is more like a big call back box! Every time I go there, there are bunch's of chukars that return to the box but never have seen one go in. So you an pay $10 each for one time use birds or for the same $10, usually uite a bit less, you can yse birds they will go home after they fly!

[Pedro]

If I were you I would take pup for walks in areas that have wild birds and let the pup explore, build confidence and teach itself how to hunt and keep track of you in the woods and fields. You have a lot of time to put birds in front of him.

What the gordon guy said. It's a 14 week old pup.