Alberta hunter with a question

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ABhunter
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Alberta hunter with a question

Post by ABhunter » Wed May 09, 2018 9:58 pm

Hi folks,

Just joined this evening after reading posts for quite a while. Decided to create an account so I can be an active participant and ask a few questions. I live near Calgary Alberta and hunt primarily huns, pheasants and sharptails. I have a young family so time is at a premium but still hunt twice a week during our season.

My first dog was a GSP who we loved but my feeling is I am to young to not experience a few other breeds before making my own mind up about what is the best. My second dog is a pointer who is currently 5. The two overlapped for a few years before I had to put my GSP down last year at the age of 12.

The current plan is to go with a Brittany next, something about reading Ben O Williams in the pointing dog journal wants me to try the Brittany pointer combo. That and the reputation Britts have as family pets.

Now my question.... my pointer is a female and I told the Brittany breeder I picked out I want a male. She just called me and the litter was all females. I have been told in the past if having two dogs to have one of each sex. Can anyone comment on issues they may have had in the past with two females? I don’t want any dominance drama, with kids around the dogs need to be without issues.

Both will be spayed and inside dogs.

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by fishvik » Thu May 10, 2018 1:27 pm

Welcome to the group Ab. I've owned two females before and had no problems with them including dominance issues.

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by deseeker » Thu May 10, 2018 2:58 pm

Since '98 I have had multiple britts at a time (usually 5). Most of the time it will be 4 females and 1 male. The dogs will rotate in the house 2 or 3 at a time. I have had zero problems with them, but I never pick an alpha female out of a litter. I would just pick a female that is in the middle of the pecking order(you can usually tell the dominate male and female pups out of the litter by watching them interact with their littermates). Unless your pointer female is an alpha, I don't think you'll have any problems. Good luck with your new pup. :D

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ABhunter
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Alberta hunter with a question

Post by ABhunter » Thu May 10, 2018 7:42 pm

deseeker wrote:Since '98 I have had multiple britts at a time (usually 5). Most of the time it will be 4 females and 1 male. The dogs will rotate in the house 2 or 3 at a time. I have had zero problems with them, but I never pick an alpha female out of a litter. I would just pick a female that is in the middle of the pecking order(you can usually tell the dominate male and female pups out of the litter by watching them interact with their littermates). Unless your pointer female is an alpha, I don't think you'll have any problems. Good luck with your new pup. :D
Thanks for your insight. I’m just curious, why the heavier percentage of females to males?

I have only ever had the two dogs. My pointer (female) is a far superior dog from a hunting standpoint than my GSP (male). I have always attributed that to pedigree, experience training and to a certain degree breed.

It would take me having more dogs to try and make a link between male vs. Female being a better hunting partner.

Maybe that’s a whole other question what do most people prefer male or female and why?


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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by deseeker » Fri May 11, 2018 7:45 pm

It seems to me that the females are a little easier to train than males are-- JMO. By having females, I can breed to whatever good QUALITY males and lines I want to, that fit well with my line. --If you have a male, you aren't able to say I want to breed my male to your female( the female owners have the choice on who they breed to since they are the ones who have to sell the rest of the pups). Also by having the female, I always have first choice from the litter(unless the male has first choice for stud fee). The males I've had might be a little better hunters than the females I've had, but not by much. I just like females better JMO
Since I breed britts, I get a lot of requests for pups--about 3 out of every 4 requests is for a female pup :roll: :?: :!: :!:

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun May 13, 2018 6:31 pm

I think you're worrying about nothing. I have two in house right now.

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by slistoe » Sun May 13, 2018 10:17 pm

In my experience I don't think you will have any problem.

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by slistoe » Mon May 14, 2018 5:23 am

ABhunter wrote:I don’t want any dominance drama, with kids around the dogs need to be without issues.
It makes no difference if you have two males, two females or one of each. They will still need to settle the dominance issue. Whether that is a quick, smooth and permanent settlement or comes with drama is not something anyone can predict.

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by CDN_Cocker » Mon May 14, 2018 5:46 am

Ive had 2 females, a male and a female and I currently have 2 intact males that live in the house. Doesn't matter what's between their legs... or not. 2 females will be fine.

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by dan v » Tue May 15, 2018 10:47 am

slistoe wrote:
ABhunter wrote:I don’t want any dominance drama, with kids around the dogs need to be without issues.
It makes no difference if you have two males, two females or one of each. They will still need to settle the dominance issue. Whether that is a quick, smooth and permanent settlement or comes with drama is not something anyone can predict.

Sage observation right there.

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Alberta hunter with a question

Post by ABhunter » Thu May 17, 2018 9:45 am

dan v wrote:
slistoe wrote:
ABhunter wrote:I don’t want any dominance drama, with kids around the dogs need to be without issues.
It makes no difference if you have two males, two females or one of each. They will still need to settle the dominance issue. Whether that is a quick, smooth and permanent settlement or comes with drama is not something anyone can predict.

Sage observation right there.
I agree the dominance/pack order needs to be settled regardless but I had heard from other sources that with two females you can have that being a more reoccurring issue.

If you strip out the breeding side of things and we’re to decide male vs. Female from a hunting or companionship perspective what would everyone choose and why?


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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by Sharon » Thu May 17, 2018 5:11 pm

I've had males ; I've had females and enjoyed both equally. The only possible benefit for me is that the females are normally smaller so take up less of the couch. :wink:
It isn't the sex but rather the personality / genetics of the dog that makes the difference. Always check out the parents of the pup carefully if at all possible.

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by slistoe » Fri May 18, 2018 6:33 am

ABhunter wrote: I agree the dominance/pack order needs to be settled regardless but I had heard from other sources that with two females you can have that being a more reoccurring issue.
I have had some females where they were a little wacky every time they came around in the heat cycle - just like some mares. If you get one like that it won't really matter whether the second dog is male or female, you will still have a disruption of the norm every time she cycles. Again, no way to predict. But if your females are spayed then that issue is taken out of the equation.

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by RyanDoolittle » Sun May 20, 2018 7:21 pm

i hope your looking outside canada for a brittany. They wont compare to your pointer.

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by slistoe » Sun May 20, 2018 9:45 pm

RyanDoolittle wrote:i hope your looking outside canada for a brittany. They wont compare to your pointer.
And what basis do you have for such a statement - outside Canada?

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by Featherfinder » Tue May 22, 2018 6:51 am

Some dogs have enough trouble learning the perimeter of their owners property, never mind the border between the USA and Canada!
There are good dogs and crap on both sides of the 49th.
The gene pool is FAR greater in the USA. Odds go up of you getting a good one........or a bad one.
The buying part of a pup remains with the buyer, as it always has.
Have a REALISTIC expectation of what you are going to do with said pup. Then do the research. In all my years, I have yet to go to a breeder that said, "Yup....his dogs are better than mine but mine are OK too."

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by ezzy333 » Tue May 22, 2018 1:17 pm

RyanDoolittle wrote:i hope your looking outside canada for a brittany. They wont compare to your pointer.
Where did this come from??? I had no idea that anyone had judge he quality of all the dogs on either side of the border>

Ezzy

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by deseeker » Tue May 22, 2018 6:12 pm

RyanDoolittle wrote:i hope your looking outside canada for a brittany. They wont compare to your pointer.
DC Kinwashkly Dirty Ned Pepper was a Canada dog owned by Vern Brunen and run in the United States by Scott Johnson. It finished 3rd in the National All Age in 2011 & 2013 -- in 2012 it finished 4th. Not to bad for a Canada dog. It also had a AKC dual champion title and was used as a stud dog and thru some good pups. There are some good britts in Canada, not just in the US :!: :!:

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by Featherfinder » Wed May 23, 2018 3:51 am

Actually, it won't matter where you get your Brittany. It won't be a pointer. :wink:

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by ezzy333 » Wed May 23, 2018 5:34 am

Featherfinder wrote:Actually, it won't matter where you get your Brittany. It won't be a pointer. :wink:
'I would certainly hope not. There is a reason that the different breeds are different and hopefully we keep them that way.

Ezzy

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by Sharon » Wed May 23, 2018 2:59 pm

Featherfinder wrote:Actually, it won't matter where you get your Brittany. It won't be a pointer. :wink:

Very funny Featherfinder. Some people miss your sense of humor. I remember a guy called Featherfinder who had a Champion Brit. I loved that dog! Maybe not size , but HEART!!

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by Featherfinder » Fri May 25, 2018 5:04 am

Thank you Sharon. You're too kind!
ezzy333, are you sure about that? If you are, why do horseback trialers (of which admittedly I was one) keep trying to turn their GSPs. Britts, Vizsla's etc. in quasi-pointers....with the emphasis on quasi?
Oh....and I have judged on both sides of the border.

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by cjhills » Fri May 25, 2018 7:06 am

Featherfinder wrote:Thank you Sharon. You're too kind!
ezzy333, are you sure about that? If you are, why do horseback trialers (of which admittedly I was one) keep trying to turn their GSPs. Britts, Vizsla's etc. in quasi-pointers....with the emphasis on quasi?
Oh....and I have judged on both sides of the border.
Thanks, this speaks more to horseback trailers than to what makes a good bird dog.....................Cj
Last edited by cjhills on Fri May 25, 2018 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by shags » Fri May 25, 2018 7:38 am

OP,

IME keeping same-sex dogs has more to do with individuals than generalizations. Some dogs have a propensity to fight, but if your pointer isn't one of these, and your new puppy isn't either, then easy peasy. The spread in age can be a great help, if you allow the older dog to teach the pup about respect for its elder, within reason. I've had mixed sex packs for a long time, with 2 or 3 of either, and no problems. I let the older dogs discipline the pesky young ones unless one goes overboard with it...then the dogs learn exactly who is the Queen B around here and it isn't them.

FF and CJ, horseback trialers are in it to win it. There is one performance standard for all the breeds, and if pointers have set that standard, then 'off' breeds better meet or exceed it if they're going to be successful. Even with testing formats, in all breed tests, there is one standard which must be met, nothing that says that what's acceptable for a GSP is unacceptable for a Brit, and so on. ***

***Sorry for the high jack, I have low impulse control today 8)

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by slistoe » Fri May 25, 2018 7:50 am

cjhills wrote:
Featherfinder wrote:Thank you Sharon. You're too kind!
ezzy333, are you sure about that? If you are, why do horseback trialers (of which admittedly I was one) keep trying to turn their GSPs. Britts, Vizsla's etc. in quasi-pointers....with the emphasis on quasi?
Oh....and I have judged on both sides of the border.
Thanks, this speaks more to horseback trailers than to what makes a good bird dog.....................CXXj
No, it speaks to the fact that you can take any dog you darn well please into the field and shoot birds while accompanied by it and call it a "bird dog". Who is to argue? Did you know that a Blue Heeler is bird dog?

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by cjhills » Fri May 25, 2018 11:39 am

slistoe wrote:
cjhills wrote:
Featherfinder wrote:Thank you Sharon. You're too kind!
ezzy333, are you sure about that? If you are, why do horseback trialers (of which admittedly I was one) keep trying to turn their GSPs. Britts, Vizsla's etc. in quasi-pointers....with the emphasis on quasi?
Oh....and I have judged on both sides of the border.
Thanks, this speaks more to horseback trailers than to what makes a good bird dog.....................CXXj
No, it speaks to the fact that you can take any dog you darn well please into the field and shoot birds while accompanied by it and call it a "bird dog". Who is to argue? Did you know that a Blue Heeler is bird dog?
Exactly.........Cj

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by Meller » Fri May 25, 2018 1:12 pm

Just like pants, one size doesn't fit all ; one breed of dog doesn't fit all! :D

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by averageguy » Fri May 25, 2018 3:50 pm

Meller wrote:Just like pants, one size doesn't fit all ; one breed of dog doesn't fit all! :D
There are always strength and weakness tradeoffs between breeds. Some can see them and some cannot.

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by birddogger2 » Fri May 25, 2018 7:26 pm

averageguy wrote:
Meller wrote:Just like pants, one size doesn't fit all ; one breed of dog doesn't fit all! :D
There are always strength and weakness tradeoffs between breeds. Some can see them and some cannot.
I find Featherfinder's remark humorous, mostly because, when I was growing up...when someone spoke of a "bird dog", they were speaking of a pointer or a setter... EXCLUSIVELY. There were no other breeds of dogs that were considered "bird dogs".

GSP's, Weim's, V's and such were considered either Continentals or versatiles. Brittanys were called Brittany Spaniels.

I have been afield and seen all manner of dogs accompanying their masters on a hunt for upland game and pheasant in particular. I have seen birds shot over German Shepherd's, beagles, bassett hounds, Border collies and one time, even a Shi Tzu. Of course, there have been plenty of retrievers that do excellent jobs in the uplands and several breeds of flushing dogs. Each and every one of them got the job done for their owners. I was and still am, absolutely fine with that. Hunt with what you have and enjoy.

I guess that makes them all bird dogs according to some. Or not.

Whatever.

Now, please understand that I do not take anything away or disrespect ANY competitive venue, not AKC trials or tests, not NSTRA, not NAVHDA...none of them. There are special dogs participating in each and every one of those venues. The best representatives from those venues are dogs that most anyone would be pleased and proud to hunt over. That is a fact.

However, the bottom line for me is simply this...If I want to see the VERY best bird dogs in action...there is one place. The American Field sanctioned championship stake. It is the gold standard for the performance pointing dog. Always has been...hopefully always will be.

RayG

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by RyanDoolittle » Sat May 26, 2018 2:18 am

Featherfinder wrote:Thank you Sharon. You're too kind!
ezzy333, are you sure about that? If you are, why do horseback trialers (of which admittedly I was one) keep trying to turn their GSPs. Britts, Vizsla's etc. in quasi-pointers....with the emphasis on quasi?
Oh....and I have judged on both sides of the border.
Shorthairs have come a long ways in the past 10 years. If the people who trialed with them would get away from the breed trials the GSP would be very competitive against the longtails in the AF and AFTCA. Right now there is one half qualified for Ames and he came darn close a month ago with his 2nd National Qualifier win.... too bad it was turned into a classic.

To add to this a V just took runner up at a wild bird championship for the 2nd year in a row against the longtails. Heard it did a really nice job, last spring I saw one take 2nd in a Shooting dog stake at Mortlach, again against the longtails. Its pretty impressive to win at the horseback wild bird game on the prairies, to do it with a versatile against the longtailers says alot about the dog and trainer.
Last edited by RyanDoolittle on Sat May 26, 2018 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by birddogger2 » Sat May 26, 2018 7:56 am

RyanDoolittle wrote:
Featherfinder wrote:Thank you Sharon. You're too kind!
ezzy333, are you sure about that? If you are, why do horseback trialers (of which admittedly I was one) keep trying to turn their GSPs. Britts, Vizsla's etc. in quasi-pointers....with the emphasis on quasi?
Oh....and I have judged on both sides of the border.
Shorthairs have come a long ways in the past 10 years. If the people who trialed with them would get away from the breed trials the GSP would be very competitive against the longtails in the AF and AFTCA. Right now there is one half qualified for Ames and he came "bleep" close a month ago with his 2nd National Qualifier win.... too bad it was turned into a classic.

To add to this a V just took runner up at a wild bird championship for the 2nd year in a row against the longtails. Heard it did a really nice job, last spring I saw one take 2nd in a Shooting dog stake at Mortlach, again against the longtails. Its pretty impressive to win at the horseback wild bird game on the prairies, to do it with a versatile against the longtailers says alot about the dog and trainer.
RyanD -

I agree with you that there are special animals in every breed that can and do compete at the highest levels of the field trial sport.

However, there are folks associated with each and every one of those breeds who are quite upset by the very same "progress" you and I see. They are quite happy with the current field performance of their chosen breed and see any focus on field trials not as an improvement, but as an undesirable change in their breed of choice.

Actually, those folks do have a point(no pun intended). Pursuit of field trial performance, especially horseback field trials, can and does change the breed somewhat. I feel that the changes are mostly positive, but that is my opinion...from my perspective. It is obvious to me that others do not see it the same way.

The fact is that continued pursuit of high level horseback field trial performance does indeed effect changes in the breed, its appearance and its field performance.

I apologize for going off topic.

RayG

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by averageguy » Sat May 26, 2018 8:33 am

RayG,

I took no offense in anything you posted nor did I interpret any intended slights. I have been hunting lots of different venues and dogs for 50 years now. Airedales, German Shepards, Beagles, CoonHounds of every Breed, Treeing Curs of many Breeds, Terriers, Vizslas, GWP, DD, GSP, EP, ES, Brits, Cocker Spaniels, Springer Spaniels, Labs, GRs, FlatCoat, Wirehaired Vizslas, Braco Ital.,...

Waterfowl, Doves, Prairie Grouse, Huns, Quail, Pheasants, Fur both large and small, blood tracking with dogs - every season.

I love it all and all the dogs that do it! I feel so fortunate that I do. I would never want to limit my enjoyment in hunting with dogs to only the breed I have time and legs enough to follow as much as I do. I get out with other dogs owned by others each year. Love it.

As to which breed is the best BirdDog. That depends on the dog and what bird is being hunted, and where, and when.

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Re: Alberta hunter with a question

Post by marysburg » Sun May 27, 2018 12:48 pm

Getting back to the original question, I would back up exactly what deseeker said in his two posts. My experience has been the same, and we have 3 to 5 spayed females in the house. Our Britts came from strong NAVHDA breeding because that's the on foot hunting style we wanted to develop. Good luck in your search.










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