quail question

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lpk_moe
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quail question

Post by lpk_moe » Wed May 30, 2018 6:50 am

I am fixing to start hatching out bobwhite quail and chukar and seen a video about Tibetan quail. He said people used them to train with and was wondering if anyone on here has ever used them. They are a Coturnix breed so I was wondering how good they really fly.

I know a lot depends on how the quail are raised but just looking to see if anyone had any experience with using them and there experiences.

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Re: quail question

Post by JONOV » Wed May 30, 2018 9:10 am

lpk_moe wrote:I am fixing to start hatching out bobwhite quail and chukar and seen a video about Tibetan quail. He said people used them to train with and was wondering if anyone on here has ever used them. They are a Coturnix breed so I was wondering how good they really fly.

I know a lot depends on how the quail are raised but just looking to see if anyone had any experience with using them and there experiences.
I'd want to see them fly first...I'm also interested to see if anyone has used them, though I don't think I'll put my dog on another planted quail for a long time.

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Gordon Guy
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Re: quail question

Post by Gordon Guy » Wed May 30, 2018 9:23 am

I've used them before and they let my dogs get too close to them and sometimes a pup would pick them up. Maybe mine weren't flight condition well enough. Based on my experience I wouldn't use them for a pup that hasn't started to point yet. I would use them in a launcher after they have started pointing and you're teach manners.

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bustingcover
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Re: quail question

Post by bustingcover » Wed May 30, 2018 10:14 am

They are trash. stick with the bobs and the chukar. Also understand the chukar, like phez, need a decent amount of room when growing to keep the fighting down.

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Re: quail question

Post by Featherfinder » Wed May 30, 2018 11:47 am

I use Rode Island Reds when they are young. Then as they mature I use them as egg layers. Before fall, I wring their necks and we have roasters! Hard to beat.... :lol:
Actually, Tibetan are a strain of coturnix and are predominantly used (here) as table birds or fancy birds which means they have a very limited application for dog training. I agree with Gordon Guy. This type of bird can be used to proof a finished dog or in small numbers to introduce young pups to birds.
What IS interesting is that I got to hunt what looked exactly like our coturnix over my cousin's setters in Italy. Why is that interesting? Because my cousin said they migrate into Turkey!! They flew STRONG but very very low - just about the harvested grain fields. ?!?!?
When I managed a hunt club, I designed a dedicated flight conditioning pen. Was hoping to put some coturnix in there to really test the concept. Never got to put it in place. ....darn!
I rarely use pen-raised birds anymore. When I do, it's sparingly and in the final stages of training.

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lpk_moe
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Re: quail question

Post by lpk_moe » Wed May 30, 2018 12:16 pm

Thanks everyone. I figured they might not be great fliers. I have seen some bob whites the same way. Our issue is we do not have a lot of options where I am at but to hunt pen raised birds. Our wild bird population is very little.

I know it will be a work in progress but I want to try and get these birds a wild as a pen raised bird can be.

Thanks again everyone for the input.

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Re: quail question

Post by shags » Wed May 30, 2018 2:09 pm

I think one of the keys to raising good birds is to limit their association with people and all the stuff that people have around, like dogs and fourwheelers.

A supplier I bought from walked to his pens, which were well away from the house, garage, and work sheds. His birds weren't 'wild' but they were pretty spooky and were good flyers.

On the other hand, a pro who lives a few miles from me releases his leftover birds in the summer. His johnny houses are nearer the kennel and barn, and the ones farther out are right near where the dogs are trained and roaded so the birds are used to it all. once in a while a few migrate cross lots after the summer release and I can hear them calling. As those birds get close enough to hear my dogs barking, the four wheeler going, and all that, they come on our property and hang around looking for a hand out I guess. We use what we can before they give up the ghost or whatever. But they're pretty tame.

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Re: quail question

Post by polmaise » Wed May 30, 2018 2:49 pm

lpk_moe wrote:I am fixing to start hatching out bobwhite quail and chukar and seen a video about Tibetan quail. He said people used them to train with and was wondering if anyone on here has ever used them. They are a Coturnix breed so I was wondering how good they really fly.

I know a lot depends on how the quail are raised but just looking to see if anyone had any experience with using them and there experiences.
experience in rearing the birds or how they fly ?
Or if if it's how to use any bird as in the training of the dog .
Kinda different.
Depends on what you want in the end and what dog you are using for what purpose ..in the end .
Quail are good for flushing and pointing .. they sit and don't fly far. Go figure

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lpk_moe
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Re: quail question

Post by lpk_moe » Wed May 30, 2018 4:12 pm

Thanks shags. That is how we are doing our setup. Away from my house and dogs. I should have said spooky instead of wild. That is what I am trying for. Not a lot of light and try and feed and water at night. I know I will have to tinker around with my setup. I have been able to visit a few places and they were very nice in showing me some things.

Polmaise,
This was just about how Tibetan quail fly.

I have been around some bob whites that have been around people to much and want to run instead of fly and then when they do fly they are not great fliers. But some have been able to use have been very spooky and fly fast and far. But this was more to find out about Tibetan quail.

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Re: quail question

Post by mm » Thu May 31, 2018 2:45 am

I have raised and use many of these birds. They are about the same size as a bobwhite and will fly good if raised in large enough pen. The best thing about them is they hatch in 18 days much less than bobwhites and are full grown in eight weeks about half the time as bob whites. It is possible to hatch a tibetian and get eggs from it and hatch them in the same season. The bad thing about them is there call. They make a loud caw caw sound that goes on all night. It was so loud the people next door complained. I had to switch back to bobwhites. I also could not get them to recall. They are a cheaper easier bird to raise that are good for training.
mm

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Re: quail question

Post by DonF » Thu May 31, 2018 9:09 am

I don't use any pen raised birds for training. Problem is I don't really have a big enough flight pen for conditioning and not enough room to keep birds out in a johnny house. Pen raised game birds should be your enemy because without conditioning, they are pretty unreliable! I tried those coturnix one time, huge mistake! You could hold them up in the air and drop them and they couldn't fly to the ground. I do know a guy here in Oregon that several years ago was using them and said they fly great. He has a good size flight pen and till's ot up and plants grass in it every spring. Time he put's his quail in, they disappear in the grass. Game birds have a very bad problem. If you can't get them the right conditions in a big flight pen, they don't fly well and some that do, like to run around on the ground. I know people that take pen raised birds home for training and use them the same day. They pen them up a week or two and they really get slow on flushing and weak on flying. You use game birds and expect them to fly well, they have to be kept in good physical condition. Most people don't have to room for that or lack the money to build a flight pen that's suitable. Birds used in trials are picked up shortly before the trials and still there are birds that let the dog's on top of them and that would rather run that fly. If you want to use game birds, find wild one's.

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Re: quail question

Post by shags » Thu May 31, 2018 9:13 am

Well, Don, wild birds are not an option for everyone.

Try to find enough for training where I live. i dare ya :lol:

We take what we get and do the best we can with it. And produce some mighty fine dogs :D

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Re: quail question

Post by averageguy » Thu May 31, 2018 9:58 am

I agree with DonF that pen raised birds are always there to sabotage your training of a young dog before it is broke. Hence why I keep my young dogs away from pen raised birds and train with strong flying homing pigeons and then feral shooter pigeons until the dog is steady to wing. Then I can use pen raised birds and enforce a trained behavior of steadiness as needed when the pen raised bird inevitably fail to perform well. A guy can even hunt pen raised birds if that is all the they have available, but good early training with launchers and pigeons is needed first or otherwise a young dog will quickly develop a bad habit of crowding birds or worse taking them out.

I also agree that very few individuals will be able to invest the resources necessary to keep pen raised birds healthy, wary, and strong flying. I have the proper permitting to keep them and train with them where I live, but I buy them from a breeder who has all the necessary facilities that I do not, and use them up immediately or the next couple of days at the most vs keeping them around for long. Chukars are far more durable than quail.

My $.02.

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Re: quail question

Post by polmaise » Thu May 31, 2018 2:07 pm

lpk_moe wrote: Polmaise,
This was just about how Tibetan quail fly.

But this was more to find out about Tibetan quail.
Yup. But you are most likely to get most folks views on how they do it with their type of quail and in their situ. Rather than anything specific about Tibetan quail ...Unless you know different .

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Re: quail question

Post by Featherfinder » Thu May 31, 2018 5:08 pm

It sounds like I use a similar process as averageguy, minus the launchers/tethers/kick-cages/cardboard/pieces of garden hose/etc.
That said, you CAN use pen-raised birds and get results like most of us did at one time but they are still not nearly as good as wild pigeons. Also, that might further inflate your budget because you WILL need launchers too. (You can usually tell when a dog has been trained on pen-raised birds too. :wink: )
There have been some comments about "having a big enough flight pen" or "the cost of (said) flight pen". I'm sorry but it sounds like you aspire to build some enormous flight pen!
And why?
Like I said, I experimented with a conditioning/flight pen design. Now I wish I had tested it specifically with the coturnix. Not because they would displace the superior training bird (pigeons) but just to see....
Why not spend the $$$ in building 2 holding pens for pigeons. One larger one for wild caught birds and one for wild caught young birds or racers that you can train to return home through pigeon bobs - neither of which have to be the size or the cost of a large flight pen?
One thing is for sure. Your dog will be a superior performer for it.
Last edited by Featherfinder on Thu May 31, 2018 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: quail question

Post by polmaise » Thu May 31, 2018 5:14 pm

pretty much like I said :roll: :wink: . lol

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Re: quail question

Post by Featherfinder » Thu May 31, 2018 5:16 pm

Sorry Polmaise did you say something remotely like that????
I have to go back now and see. I guess I'm getting old?

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Re: quail question

Post by Featherfinder » Thu May 31, 2018 5:18 pm

I reread your posts Polmaise. I think your offering that resembles mine didn't make it?
Good grief!!! Are my eyes failing me too?!?
I think you and I need to sit down over a wee dram of 18 year old Bunnahabhain. I'd rather not but what choice do I have? :lol:
Perhaps we should invite Trekmoor?

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Re: quail question

Post by polmaise » Thu May 31, 2018 5:28 pm

Featherfinder wrote:Sorry Polmaise did you say something remotely like that????
I have to go back now and see. I guess I'm getting old?
Easy Tiger ! , We are all getting old. We established that earlier on another thread . Doesn't mean that we have lost our memory. :wink:

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Re: quail question

Post by Featherfinder » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:33 am

Sorry....where was I :?:
Oh....Tibetan quail are better eating than feral pigeons too. That I can't argue - as long as you've had your quail OFF medicated, electrolyte boosted, growth hormone induced feed!
That was the other aspect of the conditioning pen. I wanted wild bird seed mix + crushed corn in there before game birds were liberated - NOT "processed" food.
I can't eat some game farm birds for the stench that emanates when they are either dressed and/or cooked. Must be the fish protein in the feed as well as all that other "stuff".
Ummm....use pigeons for training your dogs. Eat the quail.

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Re: quail question

Post by DonF » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:11 am

shags wrote:Well, Don, wild birds are not an option for everyone.

Try to find enough for training where I live. i dare ya :lol:

We take what we get and do the best we can with it. And produce some mighty fine dogs :D
The only time I would recommend wild birds is when you can't get or have no place to keep pigeon's and/or you live where there is an abundance of with birds' Wild birds will work but will slow down the process. Problem with them is two thing's. Ya never know when or where you will find them and #2, if working on a problem the things just won't co-operate! The pen raised birds generally have all the problem's mentioned in this thread. Probably the biggest problem is not having a good place to house and condition them. Everything is a compromise. Pigeon's you can make act just like a wild bird, just need remote traps. Wild birds just won't co-operate when you need them to and there will be time's out, you just can't find the things! Pen raised bird's need to have proper conditioning or they just might not fly at all. I think that if someone had the right det up with johnny houses' set up and birds released every day in good cover and fed and watered after dark, you'd have good birds. Bad side is they will be wilder but you can't generally count on where they are. I re;eased just a few chukar on my place a couple years ago into a brush pile I'd built. Feed and water close at hand. In less than a week I had birds that acted wild as could be, didn't have to worry about them running around, they flew and flew hard. One problem though was predator's took them out within a couple weeks. Until then when we were in the right area, I got great flushing and flying birds! Everything is a compromise.

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Re: quail question

Post by isonychia » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:02 pm

I bought couturnix once. After I brought them home I waited till 8 weeks old. They could walk around a little. If you nudged them with your shoe they just peeped. We ate them before even trying to run a dog on them.

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Re: quail question

Post by Sharon » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:33 pm

LOL It's all a learning curve isn't it.

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