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I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:02 pm
by JonBailey
I plan to hunt pheasant, grouse and dove, including water-hole dove. Retrievers and GSH pointers are much too common these days and spaniels aren't pretty and graceful like big red setters so I want to be more distinguished with these flashy, red dogs that are actually worth a dam_ed for hunting birds. The dogs must retrieve or be able to be trained to do such. Ideally, the dog should also be able to take a swim in a water hole to fish out any fallen doves there.
I have been told to talk to people at local field trial events and that it might take some doing to find dedicated breeders of hunting red setters. There should be a lot of field champion titles in their lines.
I live in Idaho so do any people here know of any dedicated hunting Irish breeders in America and particularly west of the Mississippi?
Could I also contact Irish breeders found on the web and ask them if there are a substantial amount of FC titles on their pedigrees? Of course, I would tell breeders that I want SERIOUS HUNTING dogs and not mere eye candy for show rings.
Though mainly for the uplands, I must have a dog that can fish a downed bird out of a small body of water on occasion. My Irish setters can't be total "cats" when it comes to water. I know, people here are going to advise me to get a retriever or a water spaniel for a dog that's water-friendly. I would not expect a setter to be used for duck hunting.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:22 pm
by Dakotazeb
Check out Firefly Farm and Kennel in Colorado.
http://www.fireflyfarmandkennel.com/
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:21 pm
by Meller
Look up Don F on here and take a look at his Stormy dog; I would look to where he got him. I think he is in Oregon.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:40 pm
by deseeker
Meller wrote:Look up Don F on here and take a look at his Stormy dog; I would look to where he got him. I think he is in Oregon.
X2
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:23 am
by greg jacobs
A red setter and an Irish setter are two different breeds. That is the way I see it. There were a few that were akc registered as Irish setters. A big difference anymore between the two. The red setter is far closer to English setters than Irish setters.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:44 am
by JonBailey
According to my dictionary, RED SETTER and IRISH SETTER are one in the same.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/red-setter?s=t
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:14 am
by Dakotazeb
greg jacobs wrote:A red setter and an Irish setter are two different breeds. That is the way I see it. There were a few that were akc registered as Irish setters. A big difference anymore between the two. The red setter is far closer to English setters than Irish setters.
Not true. The Irish and the Red are the same breed of dog. They are basically using the term "Red Setter" in referring to the field bred dogs to distinguish them from the Bench dogs.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:29 am
by Pedro
This will give you some history.
http://nrsftc.com/?page_id=110
Red Setter Breeders/Kennels
http://nrsftc.com/?page_id=41
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:37 am
by bustingcover
Quantonas breeds serious bird dogs
www.quantonas.com/home.html
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:42 am
by greg jacobs
Dakotazeb wrote:greg jacobs wrote:A red setter and an Irish setter are two different breeds. That is the way I see it. There were a few that were akc registered as Irish setters. A big difference anymore between the two. The red setter is far closer to English setters than Irish setters.
Not true. The Irish and the Red are the same breed of dog. They are basically using the term "Red Setter" in referring to the field bred dogs to distinguish them from the Bench dogs.
Sure it is true. English setter was bred into Irish setters and some were allowed to be registered with akc but mighty few. Then there was a squabble and the breed club stopped it. The group continued and registered them with FDSB as red setters.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:38 am
by NC Quailhunter
+1 The Hidalgo family produce some nice red dogs.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:51 am
by Meller
That dog in the picture on that site looks a lot like DonF's Stormy!
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:16 pm
by fishvik
JonB, As a fellow spud hunter, I'd look into a Boykin Spaniel. Lots of class and flash, pheasant, grouse and dove hunting machines and they love water. I imagine they would also be great on valley quail. They don't point and they are chocolate colored not red, but they are like the Everready Bunny in the field. They also will retrieve waterfowl if that is ever needed. There is a breeder in N. Utah.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:40 pm
by Gordon Guy
I believe this IS the kennel where Don got his Stormy dog
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:23 pm
by greg jacobs
Gordon Guy wrote:
I believe this IS the kennel where Don got his Stormy dog
Don't think so. I believe stormy came from Craig here in washington
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:27 pm
by JonBailey
I've done some more research and have decided that Irish Setters aren't a good idea for me.
They won't do well left home all day long while I, a bachelor, am at work.
A pair of Golden retrievers would work better and would be pretty much guaranteed to do water work.
Setters are never guaranteed to swim or even retrieve on dry land.
Pointers don't swim and I don't think they retrieve also and I don't think any spaniel breed is attractive.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:44 pm
by bustingcover
JonBailey wrote:I've done some more research and have decided that Irish Setters aren't a good idea for me.
They won't do well left home all day long while I, a bachelor, am at work.
A pair of Golden retrievers would work better and would be pretty much guaranteed to do water work.
Setters are never guaranteed to swim or even retrieve on dry land.
Pointers don't swim and I don't think they retrieve also and I don't think any spaniel breed is attractive.
Pointers swim and retreive.
You’d have much better luck getting a good lab than a good golden tbh. I’d say go lab or chessie and don’t look back
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:54 am
by fishvik
I agree with Busting, a Lab over a Golden for what you want. But I'd still look into a Boykin Spaniel, they have all the things you want. Being single, Boykins are even a good chick magnet.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:39 am
by DonF
greg jacobs wrote:A red setter and an Irish setter are two different breeds. That is the way I see it. There were a few that were akc registered as Irish setters. A big difference anymore between the two. The red setter is far closer to English setters than Irish setters.
They like to claim they are the same but reality is there is a lot of difference in them. Amer Fld and AKC both register them as Irish Setter's. But the Red was started about 1950. Some guy's that loved the Irish were upset because field quality was about gone. Story is they searched the country for the best female Irish they could find, got her and bred her to 1946 nat fld Ch Mississippi Zev. Check out the Red Setter web site.
http://nrsftc.com/?page_id=110
They are not as well know as the other bird dogs but for myself, they are in a class of their own. Generally smaller than the AKC Irish, faster. shorter hair. My Stormy is 48# according to the vet scale yesterday. I don't have a photo of an AKC Irish anywhere but will post one of Stormy again. He is registered with Amer Fld and Could be cross registered with AKC but would have to get DNA done on him and I am not doing it. Some have and I do hope they keep the Red true to what it is. I wouldn't want them crossed with any AKC Irish. There was a big to do about registering them after AKC started taking them in. Seem's the Irish Setter parent club figured out fairly quick and their dog's couldn't stay on the field with the Red, so I'm told, that meant no more dual Ch, Irish!
Pretty much unheard of here on the west coast and I'm not sure why. I suspect that it's the thought that come's with that big AKC Irish. I know I don't think I'd ever even heard of one before I saw Stormy's parents run in a walking shooting dog state. His breeder is Craig O,Brien in Wash and I think he' still on here. If you can, find a couple more Fld models and go watch them, unbelievable! As far as I know those Fire Fly are the closest Red's to you. If you haven't looked, you should. I believe they are near Brighton, Colorado. Go to the the site I posted above. History is there and list of breeder's. If you go to Berg Bros site, that have a Red that is about the nicest one I've seen, They call her Bridget. I think she has pup's on the ground now.
Here's Stormy and think I've a photo of his mom and dad too.
This is a Red owned by Jim House I think he's in Beaverton, Ore. Probably find him on the Ore Britt Club Site. I believe he got it from a lady in Canada and finished it Fld Ch at something like 16 mos! AKC Fld Ch.
Stormy
Stormy's mom, Breelie, Owned by Craig O'Brien Yakima, Wash.
Stormy's dad, Robert, Owned by Fran Seagren, I think she's in Tacoma, Wash.
I think Fran and Craig are booth on facebook and I know the Red Setter club is.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:49 am
by DonF
One more photo. It's Craig with Breelie after she won the stake! She put down the best field trial run I've ever seen. By the way, her coat has not been trimmed. That's about how she always looks!
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:48 pm
by shags
Great photos! Beautiful dogs.
There's a breeder of Dual CH Irish not far from me.
She's bred 3 or 4 (maybe the fourth, or could be fifth, was out of her lines but the actual breeder was someone else...sorry, CRS) over the last maybe ten years or so, and doesn't have a ton of litters so that's a dang good record if you ask me.
The people who I know who run or ran Irish were never "afraid' of red setters in competition. The reason the parent club has not allowed reciprocal registration is because 90% of the membership is bench fanciers who refuse to allow red setters into the gene pool.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:11 pm
by greg jacobs
I didn't realize Fran had the Sire
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:11 am
by CDN_Cocker
Well that would be wrong. People don't tend to be overly helpful to folks that balk at them when they try to help. Just some advice.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:07 am
by DonF
greg jacobs wrote:Gordon Guy wrote:
I believe this IS the kennel where Don got his Stormy dog
Don't think so. I believe stormy came from Craig here in Washington
Red Delicious Kennel, Craig O'Brien Yakima, Washington.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:20 am
by DonF
CDN_Cocker wrote:
Well that would be wrong. People don't tend to be overly helpful to folks that balk at them when they try to help. Just some advice.
Actually Jon, in AF they are registered as Irish Setter's but put them side x side with a
red and the difference becomes immediately obvious. Most people that have them in AF call them a red, they are different. I asked to people at the NRSTFA why that was and don't recall why it is that way. But you look at them SxS and the difference become's immediately obvious. I with AF would go for a name change.There are a number of Red breeder's that r in AKC with them and they tend to call them Irish. I'm not sure why. Pretty much the same thing happened with Springer Spaniel's. There's bench dog's that may or may not hunt, ya won't know till they are grown. Then there are the Field Springer's and when I was in them it was immediately recognizable. In fact there used to b a paper book that came out once a month called The Springer Bark. the front was deticated to show springer's and the back to field. Then there was what some breeder's called the hunting/show Springer. Some made super hunter's and other's didn't hunt very well. They adopted the hunting/ show title to help sell show dogs, at least that is my opinion. But ever the good hunting/show type's would never place in a field trial but, they were good hunter's.
Don' know why the field people didn't try to get the breed named changed. To me, especially when you have a lesser known breed, make's it hard sometime's to know the difference. E. Setter are well known and there's no doubt in your mind what your looking at. Within the field dog's there's what people call the Llewellyn. They are not a different E Setter, they are actually an english! Blood line started long ago and was started by a guy named Percvel Lewellyn in England I think. To claim your dog is a Lewellyn the dog has to trace back to the origional line, they are much smaller dog and pretty noticeable just by looking.It's strange to me that all these dog's aren't called by another breed name to identify them. Ask a lewellyn owner if his dog is and English and normally they make no qualms about telling you it a Lewellyn! Pretty much that same thing happns today with the Red Setter. Ask what it is and I'll tell you a Red Setter. Look and ask if my dog is an Irish, most do, and I will correct you.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:46 am
by shags
you can have an Irish Setter that's a red setter, and a red setter that's an Irish Setter. You can have an Irish Red and White Setter and even a deep orange belton English Setter that's a red setter, depending if you're in Ireland or not. Or maybe Sweden. If you ask for a red dog, you might wind up with a vizsla in some circles.
What color are trolls?
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:15 pm
by greg jacobs
There was a deal made to breed in English setter. It was all done with everyone knowing. They had to wait for 4 generations before they could register them in fdsb. There was a reciprocal agreement with akc for a short period if time. The breed club put a stop to it when the new red setters started winning in all the Irish setter trials.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:34 pm
by JONOV
JonBailey wrote:I plan to hunt pheasant, grouse and dove, including water-hole dove. Retrievers and GSH pointers are much too common these days and spaniels aren't pretty and graceful like big red setters so I want to be more distinguished with these flashy, red dogs that are actually worth a dam_ed for hunting birds. The dogs must retrieve or be able to be trained to do such. Ideally, the dog should also be able to take a swim in a water hole to fish out any fallen doves there.
I have been told to talk to people at local field trial events and that it might take some doing to find dedicated breeders of hunting red setters. There should be a lot of field champion titles in their lines.
I live in Idaho so do any people here know of any dedicated hunting Irish breeders in America and particularly west of the Mississippi?
Could I also contact Irish breeders found on the web and ask them if there are a substantial amount of FC titles on their pedigrees? Of course, I would tell breeders that I want SERIOUS HUNTING dogs and not mere eye candy for show rings.
Though mainly for the uplands, I must have a dog that can fish a downed bird out of a small body of water on occasion. My Irish setters can't be total "cats" when it comes to water. I know, people here are going to advise me to get a retriever or a water spaniel for a dog that's water-friendly. I would not expect a setter to be used for duck hunting.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I'll just say this. If you go to a retriever trial, there's a reason Labs are the predominant species. If you go to a pointing dog field trial, there's a reason Setters (English) and Pointers (English) predominate. If you go to NAVHDA, GSP's are all over. There's a reason for that. Some of that reasoning isn't relevant to a hunter, but some of it is.
What you need to ask and figure out is, what are my priorities hunting?
And what are my priorities in characteristics of a dog?
FWIW, I think Golden Retrievers are great pheasant dogs and obviously they retrieve as well.
When you look to the top of the priority list, avoid something that's hard to quantify in a breed. Sure, Setters and Pointers can retrieve. But, a dog could be highly heralded and thought of and bred, and never been asked to retrieve much in the first place. And, you could probably force-fetch a yorkiepoo and teach it to stop and "point" if you wanted to badly enough.
Similarly, if pointing is really, really important to you, think hard about buying a breed that doesn't perform well in pointing dog venues.
People often look to esoteric breeds to avoid a trait that they think exists in more popular ones. The thing is though, there's no one to confirm or deny it, except the breeder/breed clubs. This is as opposed to a dog that is very popular, like a GSP, which might have a reputation for being hyper, or Wirehairs, which have a reputation for being sharp.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:56 pm
by Sharon
[quote="JonBailey"]I plan to hunt pheasant, grouse and dove, including water-hole dove. Retrievers and GSH pointers are much too common these days and spaniels aren't pretty and graceful like big red setters so I want to be more distinguished with these flashy, red dogs that are actually worth a dam_ed for hunting birds...............................quote Jon
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LOL You keep talking like that Jon and I won't be able to save you. Lots of GSHP and spaniel folks on here who admire the breed and have such dogs.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:43 pm
by birddogger2
Jon - jon - jon -
You have been given a TON of good advice and you seem not to want to listen.
The fellow who said to you that there is a reason why labs dominate retriever field trials, pointers and setters dominate pointing dog field trials and shorthairs dominate Navhda was telling you something. The dog breeds that dominate these various events do so because they are the best...at these events. And being the best also means that there are lots of folks trying to breed a better lab, pointer, setter, shorthair, and FWIW...Brittany.
If there are lots of folks breeding high quality field type dogs in a certain breed...it will be much, much easier to find a good hunting dog prospect for your needs...from that breed than from a minor breed. There are dozens, literally dozens of AF pointer breeders who produce hundreds of high quality field capable pups, all across the country...every year. There are dozens, literally dozens of AKC Lab, Brittany and GSP breeders who produce litters of high quality field capable pups, all across the country...every year.
By way of contrast, just how many litters of high quality field bred goldens are bred every year across the country? I'd bet it might be far less than fifty, with just about all of them spoken for in advance.
You really need to figure out what it is you want. You keep saying you want flashy, you don't want something pedestrian or common. Well...Labs, pointers, E.Setters, GSP's and Brittanys ARE common in the field... because they get the job done better than the UNCOMMON breeds. It is that simple.
I said once that pretty is as pretty does.
You want a bird dog...get a field bred pointer. You want a small bird dog...get a field bred Brittany. You want a retriever...get a field bred Lab. You want a versatile...get a field bred GSP. You want a flusher...get a field bred springer. You want a chick magnet? Get a Cavalier King Charles...just don't expect it to hunt like any of the aforementioned breeds. It actually might, but I wouldn't hold my breath. You want a waaay cool off the wall dog...get a Nova Scotia duck toller. Betcha nobody in your entire county has one.
When they do the job they were born and bred to do...THAT is where the beauty is. The homeliest, ugliest dog on the face of the earth is beautiful to me when it dives into a thicket full of greenbrier and multiflora(so I don't have to) to put up a bird for me to shoot and comes out wagging its tail even though it has cuts, punctures, scratches everywhere and thorns stuck in every part of its body.
Honestly, I think you should buy a shotgun, learn how to use it and then go hunting few times without a dog. You will figure out...real fast... if this upland and waterfowl hunting thing is something you want to continue with.
And you will also have a pretty good idea of what kind of dog will work for you.
RayG
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:55 am
by fishvik
birddogger2 wrote:Honestly, I think you should buy a shotgun, learn how to use it and then go hunting few times without a dog. You will figure out...real fast... if this upland and waterfowl hunting thing is something you want to continue with.
Join a dog training group and just help out other guys with their dogs to see what they do and what you like, shoot a bunch of clays and make sure to take a hunter education class if you haven't already.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:01 am
by JONOV
fishvik wrote:birddogger2 wrote:Honestly, I think you should buy a shotgun, learn how to use it and then go hunting few times without a dog. You will figure out...real fast... if this upland and waterfowl hunting thing is something you want to continue with.
Join a dog training group and just help out other guys with their dogs to see what they do and what you like, shoot a bunch of clays and make sure to take a hunter education class if you haven't already.
Yep. Look for pointing dog breed clubs in your area or a NAVHDA chapter and go to a few meetings and see what they have and what you like.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:03 pm
by mnaj_springer
JonBailey wrote:Pointers don't swim and I don't think they retrieve also and I don't think any spaniel breed is attractive.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
I apologize, that wasn't me. That laughing was coming from my Pointer and Springer. They thought that was a knee slapper!
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:19 pm
by birddogger2
mnaj_springer wrote:JonBailey wrote:Pointers don't swim and I don't think they retrieve also and I don't think any spaniel breed is attractive.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
I apologize, that wasn't me. That laughing was coming from my Pointer and Springer. They thought that was a knee slapper!
I don't know for sure...but I think if dogs could talk, they would not be very complimentary on the looks of most humans. I also think that they would be VERY quick to remind their resident human that THEY were the one with the nose.
My first dog was a dropper and I distinctly remember emptying both barrels at a pheasant one fine day and missing . I remember the dog chasing that bird as it glided down a hillside. He chased that bird clean out of sight. Probably an honest half mile. I next saw him , heading back up that hill ...with the bird in his choppers and no, when I plucked that bird...there wasn't a pellet hole or a tooth mark on his body.
But pointers don't retrieve.
RayG
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:40 am
by cjhills
birddogger2 wrote:mnaj_springer wrote:JonBailey wrote:Pointers don't swim and I don't think they retrieve also and I don't think any spaniel breed is attractive.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
I apologize, that wasn't me. That laughing was coming from my Pointer and Springer. They thought that was a knee slapper!
I don't know for sure...but I think if dogs could talk, they would not be very complimentary on the looks of most humans. I also think that they would be VERY quick to remind their resident human that THEY were the one with the nose.
My first dog was a dropper and I distinctly remember emptying both barrels at a pheasant one fine day and missing . I remember the dog chasing that bird as it glided down a hillside. He chased that bird clean out of sight. Probably an honest half mile. I next saw him , heading back up that hill ...with the bird in his choppers and no, when I plucked that bird...there wasn't a pellet hole or a tooth mark on his body.
But pointers don't retrieve.
RayG
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:45 am
by cjhills
I guess if you call chasing down a bird and killing it a retrieve. He did retrieve........Cj
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:00 am
by birddogger2
cjhills wrote:I guess if you call chasing down a bird and killing it a retrieve. He did retrieve........Cj
Actually the bird was quite alive when I took it from the dog. He had a pretty soft mouth...for a pointer(dropper). I wrung its neck. And YES the distance from where he started after the bird to where I saw it glide into a patch of woods at the edge of Round Valley reservoir was easily in excess of a half mile.
The part of the story that I didn't tell at first was that this dog was trained to be staunch only and was off at the first wingbeat. He was about 45# and he was FAST. This was not the first pheasant he caught as it was gliding back to earth. He was actually pretty good at it, which was fortunate because I am , at best, a mediocre wingshot. I saw him time his leap and snatch birds out of the air, right before they touched down, on several occasions. I did not see him actually catch this bird, but based on his previous performances, i have no doubt what happened
You can call it what you want. I call it not just a retrieve...but one He!! of a retrieve. It happened nearly fifty years ago and I can still clearly see Jack coming back up that big long hill toward me, with his head high and that big cockbird sitting in his mouth with its head up. I will remember it 'till the day I die.
Yeah, yeah, I know cJ... it ain't about one of YOUR shorthairs, so it can't be true. I get that.
So does everyone else.
RayG
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:31 am
by cjhills
birddogger2 wrote:cjhills wrote:I guess if you call chasing down a bird and killing it a retrieve. He did retrieve........Cj
Actually the bird was quite alive when I took it from the dog. He had a pretty soft mouth...for a pointer(dropper). I wrung its neck. And YES the distance from where he started after the bird to where I saw it glide into a patch of woods at the edge of Round Valley reservoir was easily in excess of a half mile.
The part of the story that I didn't tell at first was that this dog was trained to be staunch only and was off at the first wingbeat. He was about 45# and he was FAST. This was not the first pheasant he caught as it was gliding back to earth. He was actually pretty good at it, which was fortunate because I am , at best, a mediocre wingshot. I saw him time his leap and snatch birds out of the air, right before they touched down, on several occasions. I did not see him actually catch this bird, but based on his previous performances, i have no doubt what happened
You can call it what you want. I call it not just a retrieve...but one He!! of a retrieve. It happened nearly fifty years ago and I can still clearly see Jack coming back up that big long hill toward me, with his head high and that big cockbird sitting in his mouth with its head up. I will remember it 'till the day I die.
Yeah, yeah, I know cJ... it ain't about one of YOUR shorthairs, so it can't be true. I get that.
So does everyone else.
RayG
Never said it wasn't true. it was a chase and catch. Just the same as leaping and catching birds in the air. If he finds a dead skunk and retrieves it to hand is that a retrieve. My dog brought me a possum once. My barn yard dogs when I was a kid would bring me anything they could kill if it was small enough to drag. That does not make them retrievers.
The other thing you keep referring to my shorthairs. Don't know where you are coming from with that. I will say my dogs don't do that. Searching my posts, I can only find two times I mentioned the breed and none when I claimed them to be better than anybody else's dogs. There may be a few others but I did not find them.
You have a nice day now.........................Cj
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:45 pm
by JONOV
birddogger2 wrote:mnaj_springer wrote:JonBailey wrote:Pointers don't swim and I don't think they retrieve also and I don't think any spaniel breed is attractive.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
I apologize, that wasn't me. That laughing was coming from my Pointer and Springer. They thought that was a knee slapper!
I don't know for sure...but I think if dogs could talk, they would not be very complimentary on the looks of most humans. I also think that they would be VERY quick to remind their resident human that THEY were the one with the nose.
My first dog was a dropper and I distinctly remember emptying both barrels at a pheasant one fine day and missing . I remember the dog chasing that bird as it glided down a hillside. He chased that bird clean out of sight. Probably an honest half mile. I next saw him , heading back up that hill ...with the bird in his choppers and no, when I plucked that bird...there wasn't a pellet hole or a tooth mark on his body.
But pointers don't retrieve.
RayG
I'm not trying to paint with a broad brush here, but I don't think its unfair to say, that if you want a dog that retrieves and
place a premium on it, you are wise to find one with some documented bloodline history of actively retrieving and getting graded on it, assuming you can't see the parents in action for yourself. Same with pointing. Or water work.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:38 am
by Urban_Redneck
I spent a few hours with an Irish Setter breeder in europe, her dogs hunt(requires passing the TAN test) and win serious bench shows. She refuses to sell pups to Americans
Italy might be anyone's best bet for a real high powered, field Irish.
I have a good deal of affection for the breed, my great uncle had an awesome one that I loved. I used to come home from visits with bruises from his tail, it was like a steel whip.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:25 pm
by DonF
[quote="Urban_Redneck"]I spent a few hours with an Irish Setter breeder in europe, her dogs hunt(requires passing the TAN test) and win serious bench shows. She refuses to sell pups to Americans
Italy might be anyone's best bet for a real high powered, field Irish.
I have a good deal of affection for the breed, my great uncle had an awesome one that I loved. I used to come home from visits with bruises from his tail, it was like a steel whip.[/quote ]
In Europe and I think it includes Italy, the field dog standards seem to be quite different that what we look for here. That long tail sticking up is a turn off! The lady that put's out the Red Setter magazine went to Ireland with her husband this year and got to see some first hand. I saw a couple video's on it but don't remember where I saw them, probably you tube. Of course the cover there is different than here too. I think she suggested something like our Red Setters were like their Irish and little resemblance to our AKC Irish dogs.
You can find to some degree this same problem with dog description's In about every pointing breed we have. For too long AKC people have gone with show stuff regardless of what it did to the breed. The only breed I know of that is likely safe from the show state of mind is the Brittany. The Oregon Britt Club runs a bench show at the same time as a trial every year. I think the clubs are required to run a show at least once a year with a trial. That was decided by the national Club years ago.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:20 pm
by oldbeek
Jon,,,,, Again, find a chapter of NAVHDA or NSTRA. These events have folks with lots of different breeds of dogs for you to look at. There will be pro and amateur handlers. Go out to one of their events and learn about diffrent breeds of dogs. Learn about shotguns and wild bird hunting. These events have a lot of folks with lots of knowledge. Ask a few questions and listen. There is lots of down time at these events for people to talk, dogs, guns and hunting.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:32 am
by ezzy333
CDN_Cocker wrote:
Well that would be wrong. People don't tend to be overly helpful to folks that balk at them when they try to help. Just some advice.
When they tried to rejuvenate the Irish the American field open the stud book and allowed English setters to be used for a short time. AKC decided ti try it with straight bred Irish as there were a very few that were still good field dogs. The result is the AF Irish that were produced became known as Red Setters while the AKC dogs remained Irish. And as we all can see the smaller quicker Red setter has made a really good name for itself while there still are some good straight bred Irish but they have had trouble increasing their number that are really good field dogs. They are out there but still hard to find one that can compete in trials due to size confirmation as well as hunting instinct.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:29 am
by DonF
Is that kennel in Kansas or did it start in Kansas? I just looked at her field dog's and those are some good looking Red's! Sent her an e-mail and asked about them and weather they had been crossed with show dogs. So who are you? Thought I at least recognized most people in the N.W. but don't you! Really like the stuff you post!
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:42 am
by DonF
Sharon wrote:JonBailey wrote:I plan to hunt pheasant, grouse and dove, including water-hole dove. Retrievers and GSH pointers are much too common these days and spaniels aren't pretty and graceful like big red setters so I want to be more distinguished with these flashy, red dogs that are actually worth a dam_ed for hunting birds...............................quote Jon
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LOL You keep talking like that Jon and I won't be able to save you. Lots of GSHP and spaniel folks on here who admire the breed and have such dogs.
Yea, I'm one. I absolutely love GSP's. Were it not for Stormy I'd still have them today. Made a side trip to Setter's with Squirt and Bodie and they are wonderful but, they are not a GSP. Stormy has the tuffness of the GSP and the beauty of the E. Setter. Took training super easy. I have seen GWP's that I like but they are just to ugly for me! I like Britt's but they are conniving little snot's. One of my favorite dog was a Britt I'd trained for some one else!
I guess what I mean to say is the dog you get, so long as from hunting lines, breed is really not that important, but you have to like looking at it. I think that's how most got started on the breed we favor, we saw a dog we really liked to look at. Then we went to look at puppy's and got bowled over! Hannah did that to me when I got my first GSP, she was a doll!
I have a problem with all trials in that I'm not very competitive, I prefer judging as I get to watch all the dog's. If your not overly competitive and want to fool with cover dog trials, don't worry about the breed as much as weather or not you like looking at your dog. If you don't like looking at it, you likely won't fool with it and in reality you'll have a house dog the wife and kids take over. You'll look for something else and maybe a new wife! You probably wouldn't have the wife you have if you didn't think she was pretty,,,,,,,,,,,,,or rich!
Of course if you really got into cover dog trials, you'd be a fool not to go with the most popular breeds.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:59 am
by Carolina Gundogs
I saw a post just this morning on face book that Ray Dohse has a female pup available from his current litter.
You can either find him on Face Book or google his kennel, Eshod Farm and Kennel.s
http://eshodfarms.com/
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:35 am
by Mountaineer
First birddog with zero personal experience on all aspects of a day afield...consider a started dog or, preferably, an older birddog needing a home or, with unrealistic limits on expecting perfect set aside, find a washout in a breeding with an established history afield, in some manner, and proceed with guidance.
One note...red dogs from trial breeding can have a great deal of oomph and range for an inexperienced younker....Personally, I would suggest hunting, finding a club or whatever as suggested, etc. and then spend a couple seasons refining reality and what you like in a dog and, what works for you in a birddog.
I suggest all this for the dog’s sake...not yours.
Good luck.
Just another suggestion....when hunting with whatever dog chosen ....do not apply a you-tube level of info to what the dog is telling you.
Learning involves a great deal of listening...even from a birddog.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:31 pm
by AZSetter
New postby Mountaineer » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:35 am
First birddog with zero personal experience on all aspects of a day afield...consider a started dog or, preferably, an older birddog needing a home or, with unrealistic limits on expecting perfect set aside, find a washout in a breeding with an established history afield, in some manner, and proceed with guidance.
One note...red dogs from trial breeding can have a great deal of oomph and range for an inexperienced younker....Personally, I would suggest hunting, finding a club or whatever as suggested, etc. and then spend a couple seasons refining reality and what you like in a dog and, what works for you in a birddog.
I suggest all this for the dog’s sake...not yours.
Good luck.
Just another suggestion....when hunting with whatever dog chosen ....do not apply a you-tube level of info to what the dog is telling you.
Learning involves a great deal of listening...even from a birddog.
This is good advise. I would add, Some years ago I found myself the proud new owner of a very nice setter. I enlisted the help of a local trainer. I have heard him refer to his roll of duct tape as one of his best training tools. The most effective method of use is to place it on the clients mouth. You see, if your talking your not listening and if your not listening your not learning. If your not learning from the person you enlisted to help you , why are you there asking for help. Granted, his style may not be popular in todays world but I resect honesty, even blunt honesty.
On our way home from one of the early trips to see him I questioned some of his methods to my son. He asked, if your going to question him why go back(smart kid)? I never questioned him again and he did an amazing job on my pup and ever more so on me.
If you already know the answer, don't bother asking the question.....
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:23 pm
by greg jacobs
Mountaineer wrote:
One note...red dogs from trial breeding can have a great deal of oomph and range for an inexperienced younker....
That is what I was thinking.
Re: I am looking for field-quality Irish setter pups.
Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:45 pm
by greg jacobs
rsz_20171117_161412.jpg
Yeah I'd stay away from them shorthairs.