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POLL: Name "The Bible" that one should read

POLL: Name "The Bible" that one should read

Postby JonBailey » Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:42 am

before shopping for any prospective gun dog puppy?

What are the Ten Commandments one should know before putting any money down on a pup?

Is there a definitive Gun Dog Bible?

Is there a Gun Dog Book of Books that compares with the Shooters' Bible for guns or the Farmer's Almanac for agriculture?

Who literally WROTE the book on sporting dogs: pointers, retrievers, spaniels and setters?

The Bible ideally should have chapters covering:

1. finding the RIGHT breeder
2. selecting the RIGHT breed
3. training
4. clubs
5. events
6. reading pedigrees
7. dog food/nutrition
8. socialization
9. handling
10. vet care

11. selecting the CORRECT dog or puppy for the kinds of hunting one does
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Re: POLL: Name "The Bible" that one should read

Postby fishvik » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:31 am

I'm not sure that book exists. Here are some I've used in training dogs for hunting but not trailing.

Training the Versatile Gun Dog : A Complete Guide to Training Versatile Gun Dogs for Hunting in North America, by Jerome J. Knap
Hunting Dog Know How, by David Michael Duffy
Hunting Dogs, by F. Philip Rice and John I. Dahl
Training your Retriever, by James Lamb Free
Game Dog, Richard A. Wolters
Best Way to Train Your Gun Dog, The Delmar Smith Method, by Bill Tarrant
Speed Train Your Own Bird Dog, by Larry Mueller
The Ultimate Guide to Bird Dog Training, by Jerome B. Robinson

Some of these are old and may be out of print but they worked for me. There are lots of new methods in books and videos out there. This link and other forums are also very helpful. What you'll find is there are as many opinions as there are participants on breeds, pedigrees, training, feeding and care.

But I guess the real take home message I've got for you is this is a hunting partner you will have for over 10 years. It is not some piece of machinery that comes with an owners manual and service schedule. It is a living breathing creature that you need to build a relation with. In my opinion the best bird dogs are family dogs that sleep in the house, and are part of your life outside of hunting. They will elate you at times and frustrate you at times, but if you put in the time they will be your friend, member of your family and the best hunting partner you could ask for.
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Re: POLL: Name "The Bible" that one should read

Postby averageguy » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:22 am

Joan Bailey has a couple of books out that teach a first time handler how to do exposure and conditioning work. I have all but 2 of the books fishvik lists. Bob Farris has a new book out and it is good although I do some things differently than he does. I find that DVDs have replaced books and are better. Clinics are better still. I recommend Perfect Start, Perfect Finish DVDs as they are the best I have run across for bird/gun/ecollar introductions and use in training, Whoa, Here, Heeling, Pointing and Steadiness work. They do not cover the advanced Retrieving subjects. I also used the Perfect Retrieve on this last dog. I have some of Evan Graham's and Bill Hillman's DVDs on Retrieving and they are both excellent. Bought George Hickox's Great Beginnings DVD and it is good although I did not use his methods. Just purchased a Michael Ellis' DVD on the Trained Retrieve. More knowledge is better, but a beginner is best to pick a method and stick with it.
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Re: POLL: Name "The Bible" that one should read

Postby birddogger2 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:35 pm

I don't do much with retrievers, but I have about two dozen pointing dog training books and a handful of DVD's as well as a couple on things like Obedience and retrieving and force breaking. I have spent HOURS and HOURS watching others work through training scenarios. I have been messing with bird dogs for almost 60 years and I am still learning better ways to do things.

There is, no one book, no one method and VERY few absolutes when it comes to working with animals. So very much depends on your needs, the type of dog or animal, your knowledge and experience level, the amount of time you have available for training and, well the list goes on. You are a unique individual and your situation is unique. You need to find what works for you.

The best thing I can suggest to you is that it is YOU who needs the training. As has been suggested, go to training groups...see what they do and how it works...read as many books on the subject as you can and watch as many DVD's as you can. Go to a seminar given by respected experts in the area you wish to concentrate on when you think you know enough to make the investment in the seminar worth while. Take the time to train the trainer.

Understand that a well bred field dog, comes out of the birth canal with far more knowledge about being an apex predator, than we can ever hope to possess. The best we can hope to do is to mold, shape and refine that genetic knowledge and the skills it imparts to the dog, so that those amazing talents can be put to work for us.

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Re: POLL: Name "The Bible" that one should read

Postby averageguy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:15 pm

birddogger2 wrote:I don't do much with retrievers, but I have about two dozen pointing dog training books and a handful of DVD's as well as a couple on things like Obedience and retrieving and force breaking. I have spent HOURS and HOURS watching others work through training scenarios. I have been messing with bird dogs for almost 60 years and I am still learning better ways to do things.

There is, no one book, no one method and VERY few absolutes when it comes to working with animals. So very much depends on your needs, the type of dog or animal, your knowledge and experience level, the amount of time you have available for training and, well the list goes on. You are a unique individual and your situation is unique. You need to find what works for you.

The best thing I can suggest to you is that it is YOU who needs the training. As has been suggested, go to training groups...see what they do and how it works...read as many books on the subject as you can and watch as many DVD's as you can. Go to a seminar given by respected experts in the area you wish to concentrate on when you think you know enough to make the investment in the seminar worth while. Take the time to train the trainer.

Understand that a well bred field dog, comes out of the birth canal with far more knowledge about being an apex predator, than we can ever hope to possess. The best we can hope to do is to mold, shape and refine that genetic knowledge and the skills it imparts to the dog, so that those amazing talents can be put to work for us.

RayG


I agree with all of this, but the caveat I offer is a first time dog trainer is probably far better off to pick a good program and follow it vs jumping all around between them. I think having some experience is for the best before striking out on our own and beginning to expert and pick and choose between methods.
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Re: POLL: Name "The Bible" that one should read

Postby polmaise » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:21 pm

JonBailey wrote:before shopping for any prospective gun dog puppy?

What are the Ten Commandments one should know before putting any money down on a pup?

Is there a definitive Gun Dog Bible?

Is there a Gun Dog Book of Books that compares with the Shooters' Bible for guns or the Farmer's Almanac for agriculture?

Who literally WROTE the book on sporting dogs: pointers, retrievers, spaniels and setters?

The Bible ideally should have chapters covering:

1. finding the RIGHT breeder
2. selecting the RIGHT breed
3. training
4. clubs
5. events
6. reading pedigrees
7. dog food/nutrition
8. socialization
9. handling
10. vet care

11. selecting the CORRECT dog or puppy for the kinds of hunting one does

You certainly have an 'Epic voice' these days 'Jon Bailey' . !
Number 11 .
My Gran Dad picked up a pup at 6 weeks old rolled it on the lawn ,if it came back for more ..He picked it :wink:
The ones that were not up for that .. he left them with the breeder and other folks .
Can't recall him ever having a bad one . :mrgreen:
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Re: POLL: Name "The Bible" that one should read

Postby Sharon » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:35 pm

Now that is fascinating.
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