Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
Are all SPORTING DOGS, BIRD DOGS?
Are all BIRD DOGS, GUN DOGS?
Is a HOUND ever a GUN DOG?
My elderly uncle down in Georgia once told me never to call a retriever a BIRD dog because
he hunts only DUCKS which are not BIRDS but WATERFOWL since they have WEBBED feet.
sporting dog
one of any of several breeds of usually large dogs especially suited by size and training for hunting by pointing, flushing, and retrieving game and including the pointers, setters, retrievers, and spaniels
bird dog
any of various breeds of dogs trained to hunt or retrieve birds
gun dog
a dog trained to help a hunter, as by pointing or retrieving game
poodle
one of a breed of very active dogs, probably originating in Germany but regarded as the national dog of France, having long, thick, frizzy or curly hair usually trimmed in standard patterns, occurring in three varieties (standard, miniature, and toy) differing only in size, and originally used as a water retriever
hound
one of any of several breeds of dogs trained to pursue game either by sight or by scent, especially one with a long face and large drooping ears
sighthound (may also be a gazehound or COURSER)
one of any of several breeds of hounds, as the Afghan, borzoi, greyhound, Saluki, or whippet, that hunts by sighting the game rather than by scent
SOURCE of DEFINITIONS: http://www.dictionary.com/
Are all BIRD DOGS, GUN DOGS?
Is a HOUND ever a GUN DOG?
My elderly uncle down in Georgia once told me never to call a retriever a BIRD dog because
he hunts only DUCKS which are not BIRDS but WATERFOWL since they have WEBBED feet.
sporting dog
one of any of several breeds of usually large dogs especially suited by size and training for hunting by pointing, flushing, and retrieving game and including the pointers, setters, retrievers, and spaniels
bird dog
any of various breeds of dogs trained to hunt or retrieve birds
gun dog
a dog trained to help a hunter, as by pointing or retrieving game
poodle
one of a breed of very active dogs, probably originating in Germany but regarded as the national dog of France, having long, thick, frizzy or curly hair usually trimmed in standard patterns, occurring in three varieties (standard, miniature, and toy) differing only in size, and originally used as a water retriever
hound
one of any of several breeds of dogs trained to pursue game either by sight or by scent, especially one with a long face and large drooping ears
sighthound (may also be a gazehound or COURSER)
one of any of several breeds of hounds, as the Afghan, borzoi, greyhound, Saluki, or whippet, that hunts by sighting the game rather than by scent
SOURCE of DEFINITIONS: http://www.dictionary.com/
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
Personally, I've always considered any dog that hunts upland birds, waterfowl or small game a gun dog. This would include the bird dogs (Pointers, setters, spaniels and retrievers) with curs, beagles and some terriers that are used for squirrels, rabbits and hares. Sight hounds as opposed to treeing hounds are bred to catch and kill their quarry. Treeing hounds are bred to hold the quarry at bay until the hunter gets there.
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Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
It depends on to whom you are speaking.
If the person you are conversing with is an older, unreconstructed rebel, then any reference to a "bird dog", which will likely be pronounced "BUUUHD DAAWG" will refer EXCLUSIVELY to Pointers of the English variety and setters of the same English variety.
Pretty much everything else is just a "Daawg".
Oh and the "Buuuhd" that is referred to by such unreconstructed gentlefolk is almost exclusively a bobwhite quail.
For me, anything that points and holds game birds of any type is a bird dog. Anything else that goes afield I consider a gundog. I am not quite sure where a pointing lab gets placed, but that is another issue.
RayG
If the person you are conversing with is an older, unreconstructed rebel, then any reference to a "bird dog", which will likely be pronounced "BUUUHD DAAWG" will refer EXCLUSIVELY to Pointers of the English variety and setters of the same English variety.
Pretty much everything else is just a "Daawg".
Oh and the "Buuuhd" that is referred to by such unreconstructed gentlefolk is almost exclusively a bobwhite quail.
For me, anything that points and holds game birds of any type is a bird dog. Anything else that goes afield I consider a gundog. I am not quite sure where a pointing lab gets placed, but that is another issue.
RayG
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
I had better then just refer to retrievers as RETRIEVERS.
I don't know if I could even get away with saying GUN DOG for RETRIEVER in the South.
Speaking of the South, I have seen RETRIEVERS used by dove hunters in TEXAS and TENNESSEE.
I wonder what my uncle from GEORGIA would say about that today if he were alive?
He was h_ll-bent that a retriever was only for ducks.
The other thing, if BIRDS are BOBWHITES down South, then what are DOVES, GROUSE and PHEASANTS down South collectively? Fowl? Game birds?
I never learned to speak SOUTHERN fluently.
I just wish all Americans would get on the same page and speak the same dialect.
I wish all American hunters would have a universal American huntin' lingo as well.
I don't know if I could even get away with saying GUN DOG for RETRIEVER in the South.
Speaking of the South, I have seen RETRIEVERS used by dove hunters in TEXAS and TENNESSEE.
I wonder what my uncle from GEORGIA would say about that today if he were alive?
He was h_ll-bent that a retriever was only for ducks.
The other thing, if BIRDS are BOBWHITES down South, then what are DOVES, GROUSE and PHEASANTS down South collectively? Fowl? Game birds?
I never learned to speak SOUTHERN fluently.
I just wish all Americans would get on the same page and speak the same dialect.
I wish all American hunters would have a universal American huntin' lingo as well.
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
'Dog' ................................
Ya wanna it to retrieve ? ..make it a retriever . Best of starting with a Retriever Breed .. It kinda makes life easier ,because all them folks before have been doing stuff just to make it so.
Ya wanna make it a Hunting dog ? ..... make it Hunt . Best of starting with a hunting breed... It Kinda makes life easier, because all them folks before have been doing stuff just to make it so.
.....
Uncle /Funkle . Don't get an Earth dog to dig dirt and don't get a Sight Hound to chase . I'm sure he don't get Deer Hounds to bey' and I'm sure Uncle Dunk is/was a right nice guy .
...
When I was 3 years old I ate mud .
and a few worms btw ..they all thought I crazy .
Ya wanna it to retrieve ? ..make it a retriever . Best of starting with a Retriever Breed .. It kinda makes life easier ,because all them folks before have been doing stuff just to make it so.
Ya wanna make it a Hunting dog ? ..... make it Hunt . Best of starting with a hunting breed... It Kinda makes life easier, because all them folks before have been doing stuff just to make it so.
.....
Uncle /Funkle . Don't get an Earth dog to dig dirt and don't get a Sight Hound to chase . I'm sure he don't get Deer Hounds to bey' and I'm sure Uncle Dunk is/was a right nice guy .
...
When I was 3 years old I ate mud .
and a few worms btw ..they all thought I crazy .
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
But can't a RETRIEVER worth his Milk Bones also be a good HUNTER as in "dead hunting"?
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
You should have asked your Uncle , who was He-ll bent on a retriever hunting ducks in your Good ole ... State .
God rest his sole .
God rest his sole .
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
Well folks that show up at my gate, look at my dogs, proudly exclaim; "those are hunt'en dogs". They have been correct every time!
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
Aye Laddie, you're doin' a wee bit of crackin' me up.polmaise wrote:You should have asked your Uncle , who was He-ll bent on a retriever hunting ducks in your Good ole ... State .
God rest his sole .
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Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
Doesn't matter to me what you call a dog. A good dog's a good dog. The Clinton days are finished.
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Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
I think many folks consider a bird dog to be of the pointing variety. For some reason it doesn't seem to be proper with many of the purist folks to call a spanirl a "bird dog". They're a flusher... a gun dog.... or simply a spaniel. I've always disliked that notion because I've seen my cocker produce more birds than a pointing dog and find missed birds... just as a pointing dog could probably outperform my dog on another day. All dogs miss birds and pointing is not a superior trait to flushing. A good nose is a good nose. And IMO any dog that is used to produce birds for the gun is a bird dog
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
The term "sporting dog" seems to encompass any breed used, without regard to specific field functions, to assist hunters in the taking of critters with FEATHERS, period.
If I had spoken to my old unreconstructed Southern uncle in terms of my Labs as being 'sporting dogs' would he still have understood what I was talking about? He has passed on so I will never know.
I was raised in the West, not the South.
There was a time when "bird dog" and "sporting dog" were synonymous in my mind. Such dog I always envisioned accompanying a man with a shotgun who was after critters with feathers.
If I had spoken to my old unreconstructed Southern uncle in terms of my Labs as being 'sporting dogs' would he still have understood what I was talking about? He has passed on so I will never know.
I was raised in the West, not the South.
There was a time when "bird dog" and "sporting dog" were synonymous in my mind. Such dog I always envisioned accompanying a man with a shotgun who was after critters with feathers.
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Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
I've lived in the West and Mid-West and have never heard of people speak of a breed as a "sporting breed" other than in print. Lab's are retrievers. Spaniels are flushers. All pointing dog's are bird dog's. Hounds is hounds. Simple.
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
Then what is Setters, Harebrains?
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Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
Mostly they are Grouse dogs...and pretty good ones too.JonBailey wrote:Then what is Setters, Harebrains?
Too much coat for me, but when you see a good one...it gets your attention.
RayG
FWIW - I never heard anyone speak of "sporting dogs" myself either. I have been in many areas of the Northeast and Middle Atlantic and never once heard the term spoken. I have no clue what a "sporting dog" is or should be.
The term sounds waaaay to politically correct for me, but then many things are too PC for me.
Oh and I thought about my reference to older sportsmen of the Southern persuasion. Upon reflection, I realized that just about all of those "older" gentlefolk I knew...are no longer with us. They ain't old...they gone.
Seeing as how I will be 70 on my next birthday, it seems I AM one of the "older" persons I referred to. Just not Southern and definitely not gentlefolk.
How'd THAT happen?? Where did the time go??
RayG
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Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
JonBailey -JonBailey wrote:I had better then just refer to retrievers as RETRIEVERS.
I don't know if I could even get away with saying GUN DOG for RETRIEVER in the South.
Speaking of the South, I have seen RETRIEVERS used by dove hunters in TEXAS and TENNESSEE.
I wonder what my uncle from GEORGIA would say about that today if he were alive?
He was h_ll-bent that a retriever was only for ducks.
The other thing, if BIRDS are BOBWHITES down South, then what are DOVES, GROUSE and PHEASANTS down South collectively? Fowl? Game birds?
I never learned to speak SOUTHERN fluently.
I just wish all Americans would get on the same page and speak the same dialect.
I wish all American hunters would have a universal American huntin' lingo as well.
You are a funny guy.
I can just envision a gnarly old Mainer, New Hampster or Vermonter grouse and woodcock hunter trying to communicate with a well seasoned Loooziana Bayou, Florida panhandle or 'Bama... Buuhd hunter. That would be awesome to witness.
Regarding your question -
"if BIRDS are BOBWHITES down South, then what are DOVES, GROUSE and PHEASANTS down South collectively? Fowl? Game birds? "
Doves is doves. If you hunt doves, you is a dove hunter. Pheasants don't grow down South unless somebody stocks them, so they is poultry or ditch parrots(western lingo) and there ain't enough grouse down below the Mason/Dixon anymore to worry much about.
Just y'all hang in here.
BTW - I was born and raised in central Jersey, so tongue is firmly within cheek. I actually moved to Delaware some years ago and would have been below the Mason Dixon line...but they moved the line to exclude Delaware from the South. I guess the had it figured out way back then!!
RayG
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
Bah...Don't make things difficult on yourself.
IF someone says "Bird Dog" I think pointing breed, but I wouldn't correct anyone for referring to their lab as a bird dog, and labs hunt upland game too.
How about a beagle that hunts pheasants and grouse? I've seen it.
If someone says "hounds" I think scent hounds...But someone could run sight hounds too I suppose.
"Sporting Dog" is something I've only heard on TV when watching the dog show...Like the AKC Sporting Group.
IF someone says "Bird Dog" I think pointing breed, but I wouldn't correct anyone for referring to their lab as a bird dog, and labs hunt upland game too.
How about a beagle that hunts pheasants and grouse? I've seen it.
If someone says "hounds" I think scent hounds...But someone could run sight hounds too I suppose.
"Sporting Dog" is something I've only heard on TV when watching the dog show...Like the AKC Sporting Group.
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
I see dog's all refereed to hunting dog's weather they are pointer's, flusher's of retriever's. Often confusing so I have to open a thread to find out. One guy talked bout his new gun dog, some kind of hound. Then there's the guy that love's his pointer and it turn's out to be a lab! Doesn't make a lot of difference to me anymore cause I'm sure not gonna educate them. You call your dog whatever you want. This remind's me of a thread several years back about the definition of a finished dog, what a challenge!
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
in the north, where we have multiple species of upland birds most any dog you use to hunt birds is called a birddog. Nobody body goes bird hunting. we go pheasant, grouse, hun or whatever species hunting.
In the south bird hunting means quail hunting. Springer people call pointers quail dogs. It is not a complement.
Bird hunting in the north was for food mostly done by the kids with whatever dog and gun they had. In the south it was done by the plantation owners for sport. With mule wagons, pointers, beaters and dog handlers to do the work. This made a huge difference in the dogs and the bird dog language....Cj
In the south bird hunting means quail hunting. Springer people call pointers quail dogs. It is not a complement.
Bird hunting in the north was for food mostly done by the kids with whatever dog and gun they had. In the south it was done by the plantation owners for sport. With mule wagons, pointers, beaters and dog handlers to do the work. This made a huge difference in the dogs and the bird dog language....Cj
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
To some people a "finished" dog might be a DEAD dog meaning he is now in Dog Heaven.
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
To get a general idea you might look at the different groups that make up an AKC dog show. There is a sporting group, a hound group, a terrier group, a herding group, a working group and a couple of more that are mostly lap dogs.JonBailey wrote:The term "sporting dog" seems to encompass any breed used, without regard to specific field functions, to assist hunters in the taking of critters with FEATHERS, period.
If I had spoken to my old unreconstructed Southern uncle in terms of my Labs as being 'sporting dogs' would he still have understood what I was talking about? He has passed on so I will never know.
I was raised in the West, not the South.
There was a time when "bird dog" and "sporting dog" were synonymous in my mind. Such dog I always envisioned accompanying a man with a shotgun who was after critters with feathers.
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
I'm already aware of how the dictionary defines "sporting dog" and how the AKC defines "Sporting Group".
It is all connected with critters with "feathers".
If I were to choose a breed for the following:
1. water-hole doves over MOJO decoys
2. open-field doves over MOJO decoys
3. wetland ducks over decoys
4. rice-field ducks
5. pheasants
AND
6. grouse
How could I go wrong with a GOLDEN RETRIEVER from a reputable breeder who is dedicated to field-bred dogs?
I could, of course, go with a Labrador but a Golden looks flashier and has a sunnier disposition. A dark/red Golden
has some of the Irish setters flash combined with the Lab's strong bird sense and water/retrieval https://www.fieldandstream.com/sites/fi ... k=4PFelM4m. I
think a Golden is the best trade-off between a flashy dog and a serious utilitarian hunting dog.
In all cases, I would require my dog to RETRIEVE on water and on dry land, period.
I'm still not sure if flushing and/or pointing ability is MANDATORY though for the uplands.
I know people do hunt pheasants DOGLESS and do so successfully. I, at least consistently, want my dog to return my downed pheasants to my hand undamaged.
It is all connected with critters with "feathers".
If I were to choose a breed for the following:
1. water-hole doves over MOJO decoys
2. open-field doves over MOJO decoys
3. wetland ducks over decoys
4. rice-field ducks
5. pheasants
AND
6. grouse
How could I go wrong with a GOLDEN RETRIEVER from a reputable breeder who is dedicated to field-bred dogs?
I could, of course, go with a Labrador but a Golden looks flashier and has a sunnier disposition. A dark/red Golden
has some of the Irish setters flash combined with the Lab's strong bird sense and water/retrieval https://www.fieldandstream.com/sites/fi ... k=4PFelM4m. I
think a Golden is the best trade-off between a flashy dog and a serious utilitarian hunting dog.
In all cases, I would require my dog to RETRIEVE on water and on dry land, period.
I'm still not sure if flushing and/or pointing ability is MANDATORY though for the uplands.
I know people do hunt pheasants DOGLESS and do so successfully. I, at least consistently, want my dog to return my downed pheasants to my hand undamaged.
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Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
Messed up this post. Mea culpa.
Last edited by birddogger2 on Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
Sporting dog is a term used in dog shows. I would think the general equivalent would be hunting dog.
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Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
Sounds like you've never hunted over a good spaniel lolJonBailey wrote:I'm already aware of how the dictionary defines "sporting dog" and how the AKC defines "Sporting Group".
It is all connected with critters with "feathers".
If I were to choose a breed for the following:
1. water-hole doves over MOJO decoys
2. open-field doves over MOJO decoys
3. wetland ducks over decoys
4. rice-field ducks
5. pheasants
AND
6. grouse
How could I go wrong with a GOLDEN RETRIEVER from a reputable breeder who is dedicated to field-bred dogs?
I could, of course, go with a Labrador but a Golden looks flashier and has a sunnier disposition. A dark/red Golden
has some of the Irish setters flash combined with the Lab's strong bird sense and water/retrieval https://www.fieldandstream.com/sites/fi ... k=4PFelM4m. I
think a Golden is the best trade-off between a flashy dog and a serious utilitarian hunting dog.
In all cases, I would require my dog to RETRIEVE on water and on dry land, period.
I'm still not sure if flushing and/or pointing ability is MANDATORY though for the uplands.
I know people do hunt pheasants DOGLESS and do so successfully. I, at least consistently, want my dog to return my downed pheasants to my hand undamaged.
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
I have never done wing-shooting in my life. My only hunting experiences have been deer and varmints with a rifle and no dogs in the field.
Wing-shooting and dogs for HUNTING is a new interest for me. I first need a good education. Everything from dogs to mounting and swinging a shotgun.
I have plenty of lifelong dog experiences, even Labrador experiences, some obedience training experiences, but no experiences with canines by my side and guns in my hand at the same time.
I need a course in Wingshoot-ology 101.
I don't find spaniels visually attractive as I do Goldens.
Most spaniels I find downright homely.
I know some spaniels have a nasty temper and bite.
The spaniel bitch my neighbor had bit me in the ankle once unprovoked.
Wing-shooting and dogs for HUNTING is a new interest for me. I first need a good education. Everything from dogs to mounting and swinging a shotgun.
I have plenty of lifelong dog experiences, even Labrador experiences, some obedience training experiences, but no experiences with canines by my side and guns in my hand at the same time.
I need a course in Wingshoot-ology 101.
I don't find spaniels visually attractive as I do Goldens.
Most spaniels I find downright homely.
I know some spaniels have a nasty temper and bite.
The spaniel bitch my neighbor had bit me in the ankle once unprovoked.
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Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
JonB -JonBailey wrote:I'm already aware of how the dictionary defines "sporting dog" and how the AKC defines "Sporting Group".
It is all connected with critters with "feathers".
If I were to choose a breed for the following:
1. water-hole doves over MOJO decoys
2. open-field doves over MOJO decoys
3. wetland ducks over decoys
4. rice-field ducks
5. pheasants
AND
6. grouse
How could I go wrong with a GOLDEN RETRIEVER from a reputable breeder who is dedicated to field-bred dogs?
I could, of course, go with a Labrador but a Golden looks flashier and has a sunnier disposition. A dark/red Golden
has some of the Irish setters flash combined with the Lab's strong bird sense and water/retrieval https://www.fieldandstream.com/sites/fi ... k=4PFelM4m. I
think a Golden is the best trade-off between a flashy dog and a serious utilitarian hunting dog.
In all cases, I would require my dog to RETRIEVE on water and on dry land, period.
I'm still not sure if flushing and/or pointing ability is MANDATORY though for the uplands.
I know people do hunt pheasants DOGLESS and do so successfully. I, at least consistently, want my dog to return my downed pheasants to my hand undamaged.
Like the man said...hunt over what you like. You seem to have a thing for retrieving. That is cool. If so, then a retrieving breed makes a lot of sense...for you.
I have only seen a couple goldens in the field over the years. Both were in front of folks hunting for pheasant. Nice looking, nice moving dogs as I recall, but that is really all I recall.
I personally get all goose bumpy and fired up walking up to a dog that is standing there ... locked up tight as a tick with a bird out there off the end of the dog's nose. That is what trips my trigger. The rest is nice...but not a big deal to me.
I personally don't care too much about retrieving. I don't do waterfowl or doves at all, and I don't hunt near bodies of water all that often, so retrieving is simply not a priority... for me.
When I can't bend over and pick up a bird I have shot... I figure it is about time for me to quit. But, again, that is just me.
I care about finding wounded birds...A LOT... but whether the dog points it dead, lays on it, so it won't escape or brings it to me...matters very little...to me. Most of my dogs would bring birds back if not to hand, at least in my general vicinity and that always has been good enough for me. Some were better than others at the task, but it was never something I focused on. I am all about a hard charger screaming up an edge and then slamming into a point.
Different strokes for different folks. Hunt with the kind of dog that makes you happy. You are the one paying the feed bill. I do.
RayG
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
It Is not about bending over to pick up a bird. It is about finding shot birds in heavy cover. To most serious upland hunters ands all water fowl hunters a dog that does not retrieve is worse than useless. There is a lot more to it than walking over and picking up the bird when it drops in a Thousand acres of CRP or cattails
Things can get pretty exciting when a good flusher gets birdy also...….Cj
Things can get pretty exciting when a good flusher gets birdy also...….Cj
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
It's just more FUN to have well-trained man's best friend on hunts anyway. It makes it charming, endearing and memorable.
Yes, a good canine retriever saves a lot of dirty muddy wet hunting clothes. You spend more time shooting and less time hunting dead
yourself as a human retriever.
If a sporting dog can't retrieve, a flusher and a pointer even is POINTLESS.
Yes, a good canine retriever saves a lot of dirty muddy wet hunting clothes. You spend more time shooting and less time hunting dead
yourself as a human retriever.
If a sporting dog can't retrieve, a flusher and a pointer even is POINTLESS.
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Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
Jon -JonBailey wrote:It's just more FUN to have well-trained man's best friend on hunts anyway. It makes it charming, endearing and memorable.
Yes, a good canine retriever saves a lot of dirty muddy wet hunting clothes. You spend more time shooting and less time hunting dead
yourself as a human retriever.
If a sporting dog can't retrieve, a flusher and a pointer even is POINTLESS.
I respect your statement as YOUR opinion. I simply do not share that same opinion. I prefer pointing dogs that find birds and point. What come after is much less important.
When I was a young man, having a full game bag was of paramount importance. If I did not limit out, it was not a good day. That changed over the years, slowly but surely. The full game bag's importance diminished and the dog work's importance grew.
Today, and for a very long time...whether or not I even shoot the gun is almost irrelevant to me. I go to see the dog work and to enjoy the outdoors. if the dog finds and points a bird...I will do my part, but it is not for me that I kill. well...maybe it is for me a little bit. It is mostly for the dog, because he did his part and he needs me to do mine to bring it to completion.
I participate in field trials for pointing dogs, where birds are not even shot. Riding to a dog that is standing there, tall and proud is as good as it gets...for me. This is especially true if it is MY dog, who is out there waiting for ME.
Things change.
Incidentally, when I was a young man, I was VERY certain about a whole host of things. As I got older I became less and less sure of things that I thought I knew all about. Fast forward to today and I am pretty sure of what I like and what I don't like, what I care about and what I don't care much about... but the rest is open for discussion.
Enjoy the journey.
RayG
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
What was your ankle doing near the dogs mouth in the first place !?JonBailey wrote: I know some spaniels have a nasty temper and bite.
The spaniel bitch my neighbor had bit me in the ankle once unprovoked.
I trust dogs instincts ,usually when they don't like you .they bite
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Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
I guess you didn't read far enough. Here is what you missed.cjhills wrote:It Is not about bending over to pick up a bird. It is about finding shot birds in heavy cover. To most serious upland hunters ands all water fowl hunters a dog that does not retrieve is worse than useless. There is a lot more to it than walking over and picking up the bird when it drops in a Thousand acres of CRP or cattails
Things can get pretty exciting when a good flusher gets birdy also...….Cj
"I care about finding wounded birds...A LOT... but whether the dog points it dead, lays on it, so it won't escape or brings it to me...matters very little...to me. Most of my dogs would bring birds back if not to hand, at least in my general vicinity and that always has been good enough for me. "
I haven't hunted over too many flushing dogs in my life, about a half dozen or so, but I have to agree that it was pretty exciting when they were on a bird. They went to a whole 'nother place in terms of intensity, drive and desire. That was special too. Not my thing...but special, nonetheless.
As has been said many times...a good dog is a good dog.
RayG
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
Bird dogs:
The primary focus of the dog is "the bird". The best pointers & setters (IMHO) are "bird dogs". They run big and fast w/ only one thought in mind- bird finding. Only when they cross a scent cone do they freeze & possibly wonder "where is that guy who feeds me?"
Gun dogs:
The "gun dog" hunts for "the gun" (you). The best Springers, Cockers, & flushing retrievers understand they're part of a team and the work in concert w/ the handler to find, flush & retrieve birds. They know (and care) where you are even as they're questing for game.
Some Pointers can be "gun dogs" & some Springers may be "bird dogs", but this isn't optimal.
The primary focus of the dog is "the bird". The best pointers & setters (IMHO) are "bird dogs". They run big and fast w/ only one thought in mind- bird finding. Only when they cross a scent cone do they freeze & possibly wonder "where is that guy who feeds me?"
Gun dogs:
The "gun dog" hunts for "the gun" (you). The best Springers, Cockers, & flushing retrievers understand they're part of a team and the work in concert w/ the handler to find, flush & retrieve birds. They know (and care) where you are even as they're questing for game.
Some Pointers can be "gun dogs" & some Springers may be "bird dogs", but this isn't optimal.
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
...........................................JonBailey wrote:I have never done wing-shooting in my life. My only hunting experiences have been deer and varmints with a rifle and no dogs in the field.
Wing-shooting and dogs for HUNTING is a new interest for me. I first need a good education. Everything from dogs to mounting and swinging a shotgun.
I have plenty of lifelong dog experiences, even Labrador experiences, some obedience training experiences, but no experiences with canines by my side and guns in my hand at the same time.
I need a course in Wingshoot-ology 101.
I don't find spaniels visually attractive as I do Goldens.
Most spaniels I find downright homely.
I know some spaniels have a nasty temper and bite.
The spaniel bitch my neighbor had bit me in the ankle once unprovoked.
I started out at a gun club. Lots of experts there to teach you wing shooting- shot gun use- by shooting skeet. Highly recommend it.
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
I was talking to my neighbor who even had his spaniel on a leash. I was 10 years old then.polmaise wrote:What was your ankle doing near the dogs mouth in the first place !?JonBailey wrote: I know some spaniels have a nasty temper and bite.
The spaniel bitch my neighbor had bit me in the ankle once unprovoked.
I trust dogs instincts ,usually when they don't like you .they bite
Just sitting on my bicycle in my shorts and flip-flops talking to the neighbor on my street.
The dam_ b_tch just all the sudden bit my ankle unprovoked. The spaniel might have been averse to children.
This man was in his 60's, the spaniel's owner.
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
Can one get a primer on dogs and dog training at a gun club as well?Sharon wrote:...........................................JonBailey wrote:I have never done wing-shooting in my life. My only hunting experiences have been deer and varmints with a rifle and no dogs in the field.
Wing-shooting and dogs for HUNTING is a new interest for me. I first need a good education. Everything from dogs to mounting and swinging a shotgun.
I have plenty of lifelong dog experiences, even Labrador experiences, some obedience training experiences, but no experiences with canines by my side and guns in my hand at the same time.
I need a course in Wingshoot-ology 101.
I don't find spaniels visually attractive as I do Goldens.
Most spaniels I find downright homely.
I know some spaniels have a nasty temper and bite.
The spaniel bitch my neighbor had bit me in the ankle once unprovoked.
I started out at a gun club. Lots of experts there to teach you wing shooting- shot gun use- by shooting skeet. Highly recommend it.
These are the two main steep learning curves to hunting feathered game on the wing I can foresee:
1. effectively downing the intended targets on the wing with a shotgun consistently while any taken game is in desirable condition for being served at the table
2. getting the right dog to do the right things he needs to do in the field to make the hunt enjoyable while any taken game is in desirable condition for being served at the table
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
For hunting waterfowl doves pheasant and grouse you could do worse than a golden. Sweet natured dogs and never seen an exception to that rule. That said been down that road twice and hit epilepsy both times so be wary when youre doing your homework on a litter. I think its a result of tight genetics so if you gotta pick between a few litters Id advise you pick the looser bred one. Honestly it might be easier to get a good fox red lab than a good golden but if you get a good golden you get a great hunting partner and companion.
I also feel the need to point out that “flashy” dogs with long red hair are going to attract a lot of mess in the field and way more in any marsh or swamp. And most retrievers are black brown and roan for camouflage while pointers are usually red white or orange to be easier to see from long distance. If youre mostly hunting fields Id suggest buying a dog blind (good idea for any breed imo) and that should mitigate the bulk of the issue. But in the end some types a dogs was made fer lookin at and some wernt. Retrievers generally wernt.
I also feel the need to point out that “flashy” dogs with long red hair are going to attract a lot of mess in the field and way more in any marsh or swamp. And most retrievers are black brown and roan for camouflage while pointers are usually red white or orange to be easier to see from long distance. If youre mostly hunting fields Id suggest buying a dog blind (good idea for any breed imo) and that should mitigate the bulk of the issue. But in the end some types a dogs was made fer lookin at and some wernt. Retrievers generally wernt.
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
................................JonBailey wrote:,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Sharon wrote:...........................................JonBailey wrote:I have never done wing-shooting in my life. My only hunting experiences have been deer and varmints with a rifle and no dogs in the field.
Wing-shooting and dogs for HUNTING is a new interest for me. I first need a good education. Everything from dogs to mounting and swinging a shotgun.
I have plenty of lifelong dog experiences, even Labrador experiences, some obedience training experiences, but no experiences with canines by my side and guns in my hand at the same time.
I need a course in Wingshoot-ology 101.
I don't find spaniels visually attractive as I do Goldens.
Most spaniels I find downright homely.
I know some spaniels have a nasty temper and bite.
The spaniel bitch my neighbor had bit me in the ankle once unprovoked.
I started out at a gun club. Lots of experts there to teach you wing shooting- shot gun use- by shooting skeet. Highly recommend it.
Can one get a primer on dogs and dog training at a gun club as well?
These are the two main steep learning curves to hunting feathered game on the wing I can foresee:
1. effectively downing the intended targets on the wing with a shotgun consistently while any taken game is in desirable condition for being served at the table
2. getting the right dog to do the right things he needs to do in the field to make the hunt enjoyable while any taken game is in desirable condition for being served at the table
No promises , but one can often find hunters, at gun clubs, who have trained their own dog effectively They are sometimes shooting skeet so they don't miss that bird so often and have the dog give them a "drop dead" look.
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- Rank: 3X Champion
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- Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:15 am
- Location: Lower slower Delaware
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
SharonJonBailey wrote:I have never done wing-shooting in my life. My only hunting experiences have been deer and varmints with a rifle and no dogs in the field.
Wing-shooting and dogs for HUNTING is a new interest for me. I first need a good education. Everything from dogs to mounting and swinging a shotgun.
...................................................
I started out at a gun club. Lots of experts there to teach you wing shooting- shot gun use- by shooting skeet. Highly recommend it.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Can one get a primer on dogs and dog training at a gun club as well? quote Jon Bailey
............................................................
These are the two main steep learning curves to hunting feathered game on the wing I can foresee:
1. effectively downing the intended targets on the wing with a shotgun consistently while any taken game is in desirable condition for being served at the table
2. getting the right dog to do the right things he needs to do in the field to make the hunt enjoyable while any taken game is in desirable condition for being served at the table
[/quote] Jon Bailey
................................
No promises , but one can often find hunters, at gun clubs, who have trained their own dog effectively They are sometimes shooting skeet so they don't miss that bird so often and have the dog give them a "drop dead" look. [/quote] Sharon
.............................................................
The converse is generally true as well. If you get with a dog training group that is focused on field events, such as Navhda or Nahra, I strongly suspect you will find folks who know how to handle a shotgun there .
The folks who train retrievers might tend to lean towards trap versus skeet shooting, due to the longer type shots that are often encountered when hunting waterfowl, but practice is practice.
I do agree with Sharon that skeet will probably get you on the learning curve the fastest, because skeet is all about swinging the weapon correctly which is a lot of what wingshooting is about.
I generally do a couple or three rounds of skeet every year as a tuneup. Besides...it's fun to burn powder.
RayG
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
[quote="CDN_Cocker"]I don't find spaniels visually attractive as I do Goldens. Most spaniels I find downright homely.I know some spaniels have a nasty temper and bite. The spaniel bitch my neighbor had bit me in the ankle once unprovoked.
My guess is the spaniel that bit you was an American Cocker, which general is not known for it's prowess as a hunter. As I said before, if you haven't seen a Boykin Spaniel in action, it has all your criteria covered, including a great color.
My guess is the spaniel that bit you was an American Cocker, which general is not known for it's prowess as a hunter. As I said before, if you haven't seen a Boykin Spaniel in action, it has all your criteria covered, including a great color.
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
The neighbor's bitch that bit me looked more like this red and white ticked English springer spaniel:
https://www.google.com/search?q=white+r ... 3J2UkJCLCM:
https://www.google.com/search?q=white+r ... 3J2UkJCLCM:
Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
I've never seen an aggressive or mean working Springer. But by all means, go ahead and write off an entire group of breeds based on a single childhood memory.JonBailey wrote:The neighbor's bitch that bit me looked more like this red and white ticked English springer spaniel:
https://www.google.com/search?q=white+r ... 3J2UkJCLCM:
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Re: Speaking
+1welsh wrote:But by all means, go ahead and write off an entire group of breeds based on a single childhood memory.JonBailey wrote:The neighbor's bitch that bit me looked more like this red and white ticked English springer spaniel:
https://www.google.com/search?q=white+r ... 3J2UkJCLCM:
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
I've been bit by a Bichon, Poodle, GWP, GSP, Huskie, German Shepherd, and a Chihuahua. Some were fearful dogs, some were mean (chihuahuah) and a few times it was dogs fighting that I had to break up.JonBailey wrote:The neighbor's bitch that bit me looked more like this red and white ticked English springer spaniel:
https://www.google.com/search?q=white+r ... 3J2UkJCLCM:
Saying "Spaniel" is a really broad term. Like saying "retriever" or even "pointer" outside of the gun dog world. A Golden, Lab, and Chessies, are all different dogs. GSP's, GWP's, Weimareiners, Vizslas, are all different dogs.
Every Boyking I've ever met has been absolutely charming.
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
Also hard working, good looking and just plain fun to watch at work. The same amount of coat care as a Golden, they hunt the same way, there are no "bench lines", take to training easily and they are cheaper to feed. Definitely on list for my next dog.JONOV wrote:Every Boyking I've ever met has been absolutely charming.
Re: Speaking
...........................welsh wrote:I've never seen an aggressive or mean working Springer. But by all means, go ahead and write off an entire group of breeds based on a single childhood memory.JonBailey wrote:The neighbor's bitch that bit me looked more like this red and white ticked English springer spaniel:
https://www.google.com/search?q=white+r ... 3J2UkJCLCM:
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
I've never been bitten by a dog and I've had 5 rescue JRTs. They key is caution and hang back until welcomed.
Now I was kidnapped by a man , so I guess I should never trust a man again.
Re: Speaking
We had a Jack Russel called 'Nipper' .He was aptly named . (Best ratter I've ever had btw ..start up a chainsaw and the wee Bugger would be dancing around looking for something coming out a holeSharon wrote: I've never been bitten by a dog and I've had 5 rescue JRTs. They key is caution and hang back until welcomed.
....
He slept underneath the radiator ,and if anyone's ankle got too near the Radiator when he was there ,It was fair game so we never went there.
This Girl comes in and was all exited and wanted to see 'Nipper' because he was the most affectionate thing when she met him last time in the yard.
I warned her not to stand by the radiator.
She should have trusted me .
Re: Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
LOL too funny - well not for the girl. They are definitely territorial.
Speaking "HUNTING DOG" fluently and correctly.
Many people would say that's good policy.Sharon wrote:Now I was kidnapped by a man , so I guess I should never trust a man again.
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