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Silver Spur Knocking Birds *VIDEO*

Silver Spur Knocking Birds *VIDEO*

Postby Skydance » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:07 am

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Re: Silver Spur Knocking Birds *VIDEO*

Postby Sharon » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:21 pm

I thought one of the readers comments was interesting.

"There are some self proclaimed “dog” guys that are stroking out right now in disbelief someone would show their dog knockin’ birds pup or not. “How embarrassing!” Truth is... they all do it and must do it. Thanks again for sharing." quote

This is (was) how my mentor and I trained. However, there aren't many on here who let their dog chase until it learns it can't catch the bird , then starts to hesitate/ creep.

We've talked about this off and on here. Be interested in your thoughts on this Skydancer. When will you stop your pointer from chasing?

PS Members- This is always a controversial topic here so let 's not ruin the thread by personally criticizing the approach of others.
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Re: Silver Spur Knocking Birds *VIDEO*

Postby RyanDoolittle » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:33 pm

I learned this the hardway in the past. Now I give them one hunting season to do whatever they want on birds; I focus more on them hitting cover and working to the front. After that season I start working them on pigeons in launchers, by the time they figure that out its time to get onto a horse and wildbirds where the dog wears a belly collar. This continues through the 2nd season, all they need to do is point, after the 2nd hunting season I start to break them out.
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Re: Silver Spur Knocking Birds *VIDEO*

Postby Trekmoor » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:05 am

I don't work to any kind of timetable with young pointing dogs. I try to let my pups find/bump birds from about 12 weeks old and I do this using wild birds. Eventually I can usually get to a point just before the pup decides to flush the bird and I then gently and quietly praise the pup , I avoid using an excited voice or quick body or hand movements. This usually works but if it does not, which is seldom, then I attach a check-cord and gently restrain the pup.

I now have a pup that will hold a point but I still expect and allow a chase …..but only following a commanded "bump" - - - a flush to order.
If the game supply has been sufficient I can sometimes have a pup holding it's points by 5 months old. If not then the pups are certainly holding their points by 10 months old.

I see stopping the chase as being a separate thing to holding a point. I carefully watch as a pup chases until I see signs of the pup deciding for itself not to continue with a chase or not to chase for so far a distance. When I see that I introduce a previously taught stop to whistle and recall to whistle. Basically the birds have taught the pup it cannot catch them and all I do is add some bells and whistles to what the pup would do anyway ! :lol:


Before anyone criticizes the above too much please remember that in Britain we expect our dogs to do a commanded flush.


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Re: Silver Spur Knocking Birds *VIDEO*

Postby averageguy » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:24 am

Using a combination of wild bird contacts and pigeons in launchers, I get my puppies pointing and holding a point starting at 3-4 months of age. Once the pup is holding a point, I launch and shoot the pigeon so the pup gets a retrieve and now understands what is in it for him relative to holding a point and letting me flush. I hunt the pup through its first season shooting only the birds they point and letting them chase birds when they fly. After the first hunting season and before the second I steady the pup to WSF. The approach has produced puppies that hunt hard, find, point, and retrieve multiple species of wild birds, starting at 7 months of age.

ND - Turned 8 months 2 days prior.

Image

First Sharptail moments later.

Image
Last edited by averageguy on Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silver Spur Knocking Birds *VIDEO*

Postby shags » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:39 am

Where do you guys live that you can bring puppies along like that?!?

I've had 3 wild birds here in 30 years...a pheasant in 1990, another last year, amd a woodcock about 5 years ago. Used to be lots of birds, but no more :cry:
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Re: Silver Spur Knocking Birds *VIDEO*

Postby RyanDoolittle » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:38 pm

shags wrote:Where do you guys live that you can bring puppies along like that?!?

I've had 3 wild birds here in 30 years...a pheasant in 1990, another last year, amd a woodcock about 5 years ago. Used to be lots of birds, but no more :cry:


Southern Alberta. About 3 hr south of Rich Robertson and Tommy Davis' old camps.
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Re: Silver Spur Knocking Birds *VIDEO*

Postby Skydance » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:42 pm

"We've talked about this off and on here. Be interested in your thoughts on this. When will you stop your pointer from chasing?

PS Members- This is always a controversial topic here so let 's not ruin the thread by personally criticizing the approach of others."



Endless list of veriable's. Some trainers are training for hunting, some for hunt tests, some are trying out for field trials. Some owners have old dogs, some younger and others are pups. All these factors plus the breed and maturity within the breed, genetics etc etc. Will the list of veriable's every end. I know, just answer the question!

This young setter pup is 10 months of age, he never saw a wild bird or pen raised bird until his first trip to South Dakota. His first trip consisted of 4 morning runs in 4 days with 1 evening run. His second trip consisted of 6 morning runs. The video was take on one of the later days of the 6 day trip. No pigeons or other birds were used between trips. As is, I won't begin steering him clear of knocking birds until this winter. The main reason I won't start earlier, I'm running him in several derby horseback field trials this month. His race will likely be more important than his bird work. The reason, each derby trial will time out after thirty minutes. The trials will be run on wild birds, the likelihood of him finding wild birds in 3o minutes in heavy cover is small. Judges will be looking at his run and application etc. If he found a bird in the trial and knocked'm he'd still be in consideration of a placement if the other competing dogs also bobbled with less race and application. A long answer to your question...I hope I added some clarity.
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Re: Silver Spur Knocking Birds *VIDEO*

Postby slistoe » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:51 am

To me, the dogs most important function is to hunt for and find birds. I can't teach that - the pup needs to learn that on its own - ranging, using its nose, trusting and following its nose. All the manners in the world mean nothing if I have to find the birds for the dog. When I am satisfied that the dog is hunting to their potential, then I can teach them the manners I want to make the bird finds useful to me and not just the dog.
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Re: Silver Spur Knocking Birds *VIDEO*

Postby Sharon » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:18 am

Skydance wrote:"We've talked about this off and on here. Be interested in your thoughts on this. When will you stop your pointer from chasing?

PS Members- This is always a controversial topic here so let 's not ruin the thread by personally criticizing the approach of others."



Endless list of veriable's. Some trainers are training for hunting, some for hunt tests, some are trying out for field trials. Some owners have old dogs, some younger and others are pups. All these factors plus the breed and maturity within the breed, genetics etc etc. Will the list of veriable's every end. I know, just answer the question!

This young setter pup is 10 months of age, he never saw a wild bird or pen raised bird until his first trip to South Dakota. His first trip consisted of 4 morning runs in 4 days with 1 evening run. His second trip consisted of 6 morning runs. The video was take on one of the later days of the 6 day trip. No pigeons or other birds were used between trips. As is, I won't begin steering him clear of knocking birds until this winter. The main reason I won't start earlier, I'm running him in several derby horseback field trials this month. His race will likely be more important than his bird work. The reason, each derby trial will time out after thirty minutes. The trials will be run on wild birds, the likelihood of him finding wild birds in 3o minutes in heavy cover is small. Judges will be looking at his run and application etc. If he found a bird in the trial and knocked'm he'd still be in consideration of a placement if the other competing dogs also bobbled with less race and application. A long answer to your question...I hope I added some clarity.


Got it! I understand. Good luck in the derby trials. :)
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