Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

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JonBailey
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Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by JonBailey » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:36 pm

1. six foot-tall chain link fence with a tube that runs along the bottom to anchor the mesh so the dog doesn't push underneath in a yard about 10 feet wide by 25 feet long
2. at least one gate to the enclosure
3. a canopy about 20 feet long and as wide as the enclosure to shade more than half of it
4. a wading pool with custom drain: here is a link on how to home-roll one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhFxZ9YX9bE

5. a large galvanized water bucket with a fastener to anchor it to the chain link fence so the dogs don't tip it over: better yet have two such vessels in case one leaks
6. a insulated dog house with a thermostatically controlled radiator electric space heater inside: a thermometer on the inner wall to gauge the interior temperature: the heater should be partitioned with heavy wire mesh from where the dogs lie down so they can't touch it
7. enclosure flooring: the lightest shade of green K9Grass available for the most summertime coolness, concrete optional, both are rather expensive if you pay a contractor per square foot: in my dog yard you are looking at 250 square feet of ground cover so please do the math, this will be more expensive than the chain-link fencing job by a contractor most likely
8. electronic sonic-activated dog bark controller, battery-operated, water-proof
9. Doggie Dooley septic system
10. a 4 x 5 foot wooden sandbox to train dogs to use rather than soil their turf: this box can go over a bare ground corner of your dog run with no astro turf underneath: you might have heavy wire mesh on the bottom of the sandbox for pee to trickle through into the ground: pea gravel might work better than sand for a toilet area???
11. a fire hydrant urinal for male dogs in the toilet box

Ideally the whole enclosure should be disassemblable and transportable with no permanent posts in the ground. The astro turf should anchor to the fence at the base. This especially important if you are renting a home.

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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:42 pm

Jon, I have never in my life seen anyone make such a big deal over such a simple project. I understand where and why you are doing it, since you have such limited experience with dogs and are trying to address all of your concerns and missing out completely on the dogs needs and concerns.Let me address each point you made in your post.
1. 6ft chain-link fence is good but the ideal size for the dogs is somewhere near 16 ft long and 4 ft wide. Beyond that it is just wasted space for a sporting dog other than a racing greyhound that does do better with more length.
2. A gate to any enclosure is a good thing if you are ever going to get in to it or use it.
3. You are concerned with expenses but are going to shade 20 ft of the run for an animal that is 3 ft long. Seems a little excessive.
4. A small wading pool with 3 or 4 inches of water seems like a good thing but sure isn't needed in a kennel run. If the pool is in the sun the water will get too hot and if it is in the shade it will stay cooler but your dog will likely splash all of the water out of it or possibly lay in it for a while which is not good for the dog health wise. And I sure am curious about putting a drain in a pool that any 6 year old can tip and drain. Just another way to spend money that provides no real benefit to the dog.
5. A 10 quart bucket that you can fasten so the dog doesn't treat it like the pool is good but two is another waste and a large bucket is again overkill and not needed. For years I watered in a gallon coffee can in each run.
6. An insulated dog house is another nice sounding thing that is not needed and there is no way I or your dog would ever have it heated. A good tight dog house designed so the dog sleeping area is not accessed straight in from the opening and is well bedded is all the dog needs and wants. I think every heated house I have seen has the dog sleeping out side most of the time as they are just too hot for an outside dog with a good winter coat. And the fire hazard is just way more than your dog or I would want or use.
7. It has been proven over and over that cement is the best way to go for health reasons though rocks are better for the dogs feet. With the money you aren't going to spend on all of the excessive things you have listed you will be able to afford the cement on your 16 by 4 run. Poured 4 inches deep it will take less than a cubic yard of cement and you could rent a small electric mixer and pour it your self like many of us have had to do over the years.
8. The dog bark collar is not really a kennel expense but if you are needing one you will need it whether you kennel your dogs or not. I think I would train the dogs not to bark continually instead of training them to use a sandbox in your kennel run. Probably will take less time on your part and definitely a lot less time sitting in the run waiting for them to go so you can correct them.

I know you will disregard the suggestions I have made like most of the other help you have received but it is given to try and help you catch up since you have so little experience. After having a boarding and training kennel for years and breeding, showing and a little trialing over the past 50 years, I will guarantee you each and every suggestion I made is the best you can do for your dog if it is going to live in a kennel. Of course, you can keep the dogs inside if you just have 2 or 3 and that works pretty well also. But since you are so worried about a dog messing up your home instead of enjoying the companionship I doubt if that will happen. I know I have found that dogs and kids do mess up the house but I am yet to find that they aren't worth the mess.

Ezzy

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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by mnaj_springer » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:48 am

Wow! You've made every single step of this way more complicated than it needs to be!

Seriously, mankind has had canine companions for tens of thousands of years (depending on your source), and it has not been this complicated. Now clearly I'm not suggesting you ought to live in a cave with a dog, but again... not that complicated. I think I wouldn't be so annoyed by your posts (and it seems some others are as well, but they can speak for themselves) if you were anywhere even close to getting a dog, but it seems like you're not. You're building the hypothetical Taj Mahal of dog kennels and you don't even own a house, and it seems you aren't even looking for a house right now (correct me if I'm wrong on that).

Point being, you don't need all this stuff to own a dog. When I got my current springer I lived in an apartment. She slept in a crate. We took walks on a vacant lot(s) that was overgrown. We did our first retrieving drills in a hallway. I joined a club to get access to training birds and to train. It wasn't an ideal set-up but there are few who have that, and guess what, she's a great dog! She is a senior hunter who everyone loves (including the judges) and she is bird finding/retrieving machine on wild birds.

Ezzy is right. You're making this complicated for yourself and not this hypothetical dog (that at this rate you may never buy). I don't know if it is anxiety, or OCD, or neuroticism, or what, but if you continue this when you have a dog, the poor thing will be miserable because it will never make you happy!

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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by CDN_Cocker » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:47 am

Very good advice given by Ezzy.

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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by Steve007 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:46 am

ezzy333 wrote:Jon, I have never in my life seen anyone make such a big deal over such a simple project. I understand where and why you are doing it, since you have such limited experience with dogs and are trying to address all of your concerns and missing out completely on the dogs needs and concerns.

Jon is a total ditherer who posts here so people will pay attention to him. I doubt that he will actually ever get a dog or ever hunt with one.

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ezzy333
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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:47 am

Steve007 wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:Jon, I have never in my life seen anyone make such a big deal over such a simple project. I understand where and why you are doing it, since you have such limited experience with dogs and are trying to address all of your concerns and missing out completely on the dogs needs and concerns.

Jon is a total ditherer who posts here so people will pay attention to him. I doubt that he will actually ever get a dog or ever hunt with one.
And unless there is a big change in attitude and knowledge that may very well be the best thing that never happens.

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JonBailey
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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by JonBailey » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:57 am

ezzy333 wrote:Jon, I have never in my life seen anyone make such a big deal over such a simple project. I understand where and why you are doing it, since you have such limited experience with dogs and are trying to address all of your concerns and missing out completely on the dogs needs and concerns.Let me address each point you made in your post.
1. 6ft chain-link fence is good but the ideal size for the dogs is somewhere near 16 ft long and 4 ft wide. Beyond that it is just wasted space for a sporting dog other than a racing greyhound that does do better with more length.
2. A gate to any enclosure is a good thing if you are ever going to get in to it or use it.
3. You are concerned with expenses but are going to shade 20 ft of the run for an animal that is 3 ft long. Seems a little excessive.
4. A small wading pool with 3 or 4 inches of water seems like a good thing but sure isn't needed in a kennel run. If the pool is in the sun the water will get too hot and if it is in the shade it will stay cooler but your dog will likely splash all of the water out of it or possibly lay in it for a while which is not good for the dog health wise. And I sure am curious about putting a drain in a pool that any 6 year old can tip and drain. Just another way to spend money that provides no real benefit to the dog.
5. A 10 quart bucket that you can fasten so the dog doesn't treat it like the pool is good but two is another waste and a large bucket is again overkill and not needed. For years I watered in a gallon coffee can in each run.
6. An insulated dog house is another nice sounding thing that is not needed and there is no way I or your dog would ever have it heated. A good tight dog house designed so the dog sleeping area is not accessed straight in from the opening and is well bedded is all the dog needs and wants. I think every heated house I have seen has the dog sleeping out side most of the time as they are just too hot for an outside dog with a good winter coat. And the fire hazard is just way more than your dog or I would want or use.
7. It has been proven over and over that cement is the best way to go for health reasons though rocks are better for the dogs feet. With the money you aren't going to spend on all of the excessive things you have listed you will be able to afford the cement on your 16 by 4 run. Poured 4 inches deep it will take less than a cubic yard of cement and you could rent a small electric mixer and pour it your self like many of us have had to do over the years.
8. The dog bark collar is not really a kennel expense but if you are needing one you will need it whether you kennel your dogs or not. I think I would train the dogs not to bark continually instead of training them to use a sandbox in your kennel run. Probably will take less time on your part and definitely a lot less time sitting in the run waiting for them to go so you can correct them.

I know you will disregard the suggestions I have made like most of the other help you have received but it is given to try and help you catch up since you have so little experience. After having a boarding and training kennel for years and breeding, showing and a little trialing over the past 50 years, I will guarantee you each and every suggestion I made is the best you can do for your dog if it is going to live in a kennel. Of course, you can keep the dogs inside if you just have 2 or 3 and that works pretty well also. But since you are so worried about a dog messing up your home instead of enjoying the companionship I doubt if that will happen. I know I have found that dogs and kids do mess up the house but I am yet to find that they aren't worth the mess.

Ezzy
Ezzy:

My experience with dogs around is not limited. Dogs have always been in my household since babyhood up until age 40. Those 5-6-foot diameter kiddie pools are not easy to tip over at all. They are quite heavy when filled up: possibly 800 pounds or more. Think of the weight of a piano. The only other way to drain them is to bend down the side and that will eventually ruin the plastic thing. Yes, some things I have planned are for human convenience and not necessarily a benefit to the dog. Whatever dogs I get in the future will be water dogs: a retriever breed of some type. My former Labs always had a big pool in their run during the summers here in Boise, ID where it has been known to hit 111 degrees. This is high-desert country. Their kiddie pool was always kept under a custom canopy I built. Their water bucket was also kept under shade. Complications: if you want large outdoor-type or sporting dogs and want a home that is kept as neat as a pin, then it will take some inventiveness and money-spending to manage this, I believe, otherwise get a chihuahua or two. Those Labs of mine were mud-wallowers and very hard to keep tidy. I may follow some of your advice but I insist on a dog enclosure that I feel is large enough to be considered humane. If it is too large then the floor will be too expensive. Neither concrete slabs nor astro-turf are dirt-cheap per square foot. Dirt is dirt cheap but the trouble is it's dirty and muddy when rain and snow are mixed in. As far as the canopy size goes, I want it large enough to not only shade the dogs, but their kiddie pool, their house and their drinking water. I still want an area exposed to sun so the dogs can sun themselves at their own accord. Remember, the sun moves at varying altitudes and angles during the day and can shine in on a dog yard low through the sides of the fence causing the shady patch to move about the yard and maybe partially outside the yard.

I wasn't thinking of using bark collars anymore. I have had them in the past and they are a pain to deal with. I was thinking of another anti-bark device that the dog does not actually wear: it attaches to the fence of the kennel: if the dog barks incessantly, it makes a high-frequency sound, humans can't hear, that hurts the dog's ears so the dog associates annoying barking with hurting eardrums but it won't punish an occasional bark as to alert owner of strangers coming near the home

here is what I mean:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG4mWivv8uI
Last edited by JonBailey on Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by birddogger2 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:44 am

Ezzy -

All I can say is that I am eternally grateful the OP is not a surgeon. I have no doubt that if he was, he would absolutely attempt to perform a tonsillectomy via the rectum...and defend his approach to the death.

It is a good thing there is noting of substance going on. A bit of comic relief is always welcome.

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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:38 pm

I must admit that, on one level, the sand pit with a fire hydrant is funny. :D

I had one setter that loved to lay in water to cool off....I used a small horse trough in his larger fenced area and filled and dumped after each use.
Not sure that it helped but Rock enjoyed it.
W/o being emptied tho....moss and more will soon grow and a plastic kid’s wading pool would be shredded pretty quickly.

But, reality aside...the fire hydrant does tell the true story here.
Again, I hope the motive involved is less than worst case......dog owners and bird hunters are facing issues that warrant little distraction from all the important stuff ongoing.....comic relief notwithstanding.

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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by fishvik » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:01 pm

Having lived and had bird dogs in Boise, retrievers by the way, I had to chuckle at some of his enclosure design. First, if I remember correctly he is getting a Golden. The first time the dog lays down in the pool and then gets up and shakes, the pool will be empty. Second a heated dog house for a waterfowl retriever in Boise (even though it is the Banana Belt of Idaho) isn't fair to the dog. They need to develop a good coat for retrieves in Dec and Jan. The idea of astro type turf could also be a problem with a puppy because they may choose to teeth on it and end up with GI problems. I'd go with gravel to toughen up their paws for the Hells Canyon and Owyhee country lava. Ezzy your comments are right on.

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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by Chukar12 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:26 pm

I hope there is a patent pending on this design...
What in the name of all that's holy happened here....?

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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by polmaise » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:29 pm

birddogger2 wrote: It is a good thing there is noting of substance going on. A bit of comic relief is always welcome.

RayG
I only come on this board to see whats next . :roll: :mrgreen:

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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by Sharon » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:00 pm

Now that's a sad comment. This forum is full of experts who help others daily- including yourself.
...................................................................
Obviously Jon you didn't take seriously what i suggested in my PM to you yesterday. Now here we are again with a less than helpful thread.
The purpose of this forum is to ask questions that you need help with and/or to answer other people's questions requesting help. All of us could post threads of "Here are some ideas I have about..........", but that is not what we want here.

I have been very patient with you, and not verbally abusive in any way, but from now on I will be deleting any threads that I know are going to lead to trouble. As i suggested, please, based on your experience, give an answer in other threads ( not make up new ones), to improve your rep. here

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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by gonehuntin' » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:18 pm

Guy's good for a little humor on the board anyhow. I'm still on fencing in his kennel with barb wire.

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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by JonBailey » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:39 pm

Mountaineer wrote:I must admit that, on one level, the sand pit with a fire hydrant is funny. :D

I had one setter that loved to lay in water to cool off....I used a small horse trough in his larger fenced area and filled and dumped after each use.
Not sure that it helped but Rock enjoyed it.
W/o being emptied tho....moss and more will soon grow and a plastic kid’s wading pool would be shredded pretty quickly.

But, reality aside...the fire hydrant does tell the true story here.
Again, I hope the motive involved is less than worst case......dog owners and bird hunters are facing issues that warrant little distraction from all the important stuff ongoing.....comic relief notwithstanding.

My Labs were quite destructive, but they never hurt the plastic wading pool. It was periodically scrubbed with a brush and sanitized with soapy water.

What's going to determine my having dogs in the future is my money situation. My animals were always treated kindly and never abused. I can only talk about it for now.

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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by JonBailey » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:42 pm

Sharon wrote:Now that's a sad comment. This forum is full of experts who help others daily- including yourself.
...................................................................
Obviously Jon you didn't take seriously what i suggested in my PM to you yesterday. Now here we are again with a less than helpful thread.
The purpose of this forum is to ask questions that you need help with and/or to answer other people's questions requesting help. All of us could post threads of "Here are some ideas I have about..........", but that is not what we want here.

I have been very patient with you, and not verbally abusive in any way, but from now on I will be deleting any threads that I know are going to lead to trouble. As i suggested, please, based on your experience, give an answer in other threads ( not make up new ones), to improve your rep. here
I actually thought I was helping others here with what I know. I wasn't intending to be the poison pill of this place. No harm meant. I'm no championship-level poster but I am also not a bad person.

Perhaps, I misunderstood what the whole scope of this website was about. I now understand my input is not welcome here by a bunch of other big know-it-alls.

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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by Steve007 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:59 pm

JonBailey wrote:
I actually thought I was helping others here with what I know..

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JonBailey
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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by JonBailey » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:19 pm

Steve007 wrote:
JonBailey wrote:
I actually thought I was helping others here with what I know..

Image
But if people wish, I'll buzz off from here a while.

I'll go pester folks on another website.

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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by JonBailey » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:21 pm

fishvik wrote:Having lived and had bird dogs in Boise, retrievers by the way, I had to chuckle at some of his enclosure design. First, if I remember correctly he is getting a Golden. The first time the dog lays down in the pool and then gets up and shakes, the pool will be empty. Second a heated dog house for a waterfowl retriever in Boise (even though it is the Banana Belt of Idaho) isn't fair to the dog. They need to develop a good coat for retrieves in Dec and Jan. The idea of astro type turf could also be a problem with a puppy because they may choose to teeth on it and end up with GI problems. I'd go with gravel to toughen up their paws for the Hells Canyon and Owyhee country lava. Ezzy your comments are right on.
My mother was a kind-hearted animal rights person. I was a momma's boy. It rubbed off on me. Nobody in my family hunted. Nobody.

People here may do whatever they want with their own dogs but if I ever witness dogs in hot car, even yours, I will take down the number and report this to somebody.

I once reported a neighbor that had a Brit and 2 Weimaraners that did not have a drop of water anywhere in their yard and was 100 degrees out. I called animal control right here in Boise. I took my garden hose and filled their dish right through the chain link fence. Animal cruelty is against the law and is everybody's business who witnesses it.

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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by mnaj_springer » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:53 pm

JonBailey wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
JonBailey wrote:
I actually thought I was helping others here with what I know..

Image
But if people wish, I'll buzz off from here a while.

I'll go pester folks on another website.
Dude, you’ve posted multiple times and some seemed like just maybe you wanted some advice, but when you get it, you argue with the advice. Now maybe you’d get some Lee-way if you had some credentials, but you don’t even have a dog and clearly are a noob. Sooooo if you want to be accepted, ask questions, accept answers, and say thank you. Everyone else has been there including yours truly.

You accuse people here of being “know-it-alls” but you have acted that way yourself despite admitting your limited experience/knowledge.

Anyway, I hope you read this and meditate on the words and come back.

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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by slistoe » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:10 pm

JonBailey wrote: I once reported a neighbor that had a Brit and 2 Weimaraners that did not have a drop of water anywhere in their yard and was 100 degrees out. I called animal control right here in Boise. I took my garden hose and filled their dish right through the chain link fence. Animal cruelty is against the law and is everybody's business who witnesses it.
Animal cruelty is a bad thing - but dogs do not need water continuously all the time. Your view of what an animal "needs" and reality suffer a sever disconnect and your righteous attitude is a disservice to humanity.

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JonBailey
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Re: Here are some ideas I have about designing dog enclosures.

Post by JonBailey » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:38 pm

slistoe wrote:
JonBailey wrote: I once reported a neighbor that had a Brit and 2 Weimaraners that did not have a drop of water anywhere in their yard and was 100 degrees out. I called animal control right here in Boise. I took my garden hose and filled their dish right through the chain link fence. Animal cruelty is against the law and is everybody's business who witnesses it.
Animal cruelty is a bad thing - but dogs do not need water continuously all the time. Your view of what an animal "needs" and reality suffer a sever disconnect and your righteous attitude is a disservice to humanity.
anyhow, adios and goodbye

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