Having trouble on next breed

[Featherfinder]

I have worked with one Sharpshooter GSP. Wonderful dog!!
To say that they can work late season waterfowl in "brutal" conditions can be misleading, in my opinion. They are not Chessies or Labs. I guess it pivots on the definition of "brutal".

[averageguy]

Not my place to post it here, but one of those Friends I mentioned routinely posts video on FB of his Sharpshooter GSP lunging through and breaking ice to retrieve ducks and geese in Northern Iowa. I have posted in this Forum, photos of my GWP retrieving large numbers of giant honkers and greenheads from river current while dodging icebergs. That would be what I had in mind for tough conditions. I have hunted the same conditions with Labs many times and they get cold like the rest of them. Some Chessies have an oily coat and those that do are in a class by themselves for shedding water.

As I posted, a dry spot out of the wind and a good vest are critical regardless of breed. I like and use a dog blind which will trap the dog's body heat. And regardless of breed the dog needs a good undercoat. Some GSPs have excellent undercoats, lots do not. It is predictable by the line. The DKs are a good bet for proper coat for water work and why I mentioned them.

A dedicated waterfowler would do better to get a Lab. But that does not fit how the OP describes their plans to use a dual purpose dog.

[northwoodshunter]

I don’t know much about gsp pedigrees, someone is telling me about the pedigrees of the sire and dam of the pup I will be getting, I know the sire has a very good duck search and is used on duck and here and there goose. The dam does it but they don’t duck hunt that much but they train it so their dogs can pass all the hunt tests. Right now I’m not a hardcore waterfowler or anything like that so I found it for right now a lab does not fit what I’m looking for like averageguy said. When I’m out of college I will maybe add a lab or gwp or griffon, something more adept to water work in the cold conditions. I probably won’t do much waterfowl when it’s that cold and if I do I’ll make sure to have a good blind for him and maybe I’ll try to find a way to get one of them heating pads in there. But he will be used for upland more but I’m wanting sufficient for waterfowl. If he can’t handle real cold, he won’t go in real cold, and I’ll be okay with that. I can always make a couple hour drive trip to my buddies who has a lab to do it with if it’s late season and I am itchin to go. But right now I don’t hunt them nearly enough to not have a dual dog, as I’m just gonna be getting into it. I will ask the breeder if these pups are probably going to have the undercoat for later season or not but if not, around how cold can most gsps handle?

[averageguy]

I am a fan of the NAVHDA test system. The Duck Search is mostly about prey drive however and given that the tests are run in months that do not simulate fall/winter waterfowling conditions the results do not tell you much about how the dog may fare when those conditions arrive. Yes, it would be good to have an in depth discussion with the Breeder and get your hands on the dogs in question. A good undercoat is obvious when you put your hands on the dog.

[gonehuntin']

You need the heat tolerance so that eliminates dog's like the DD. You may get in to goose and duck but sound like you're not sure. A lot of waterfowl are hunted from field, not water. Especially geese. You also have to realize that to make a waterfowl dog out of a pointing dog will entail four times the work. My vote goes to the GSP for you.

[Featherfinder]

Average guy, you make a good point. I got a bit off tangent so I went back an reread the Ops initial post. The challenge for me - as is often the case - is that northwoodshunter is thinking out loud and putting a number of variables on the table for everyone to help with. It can make it hard to pin-point an answer and as such there are many that make sense.
What remains unclear to me:
- is the setter northwoodshunter currently owns from a line that simply doesn't handle heat well? I wouldn't put my setter's heat tolerance with that of a pointer but...it isn't bad at all,
- if heat tolerance is a major player, a pointer should be at the forefront IMO. I have experienced a number of GSPs that simply put are NOT heat tolerant. Color alone can be a player there-in,
- in terms of the potential for waterfowling, is it predominantly early season, late season, big water or field, or all-of-the-above and how often is it likely to happen?
Also, it's easy to get tunnel vision and assume we are all leaning towards some manner of pointing breed. That said, there are many Lab/springer owners that have no reticence calling their dogs versatile in that they are competent waterfowlers as well as delightful upland hunters, as well as fur hunters, even if they don't "point".
But, if you want heat tolerance AND still have an interest in cover trials, I'd suggest a pointer from a pro that campaigns in that venue. He likely has the contacts/breeders there-in, and the track record to support that.
A well-trained pointer will retrieve waterfowl too, minus the sub-zero big water stuff.

[northwoodshunter]

I don’t think his lines are bad with heat tolerance I think it’s more him individually not being so good. He can and will hunt in the heat but obviously needs a lot of water and will be noticeably hot and/or tired more than if it was a more ideal weather. His trainer even said he’s not the best in the heat. But he can hunt a day in the heat but you can tell it’s getting too hot for him. I got a deposit on a gsp. I was told these parents of the litter do pretty good in the heat and are more than capable of doing water work or field work for retrieving along with the hunting I will do. I think I will test it in navhda instead of Coverdog unless I do a derby or two and he does well maybe try to do a couple here and there with him.

[greg jacobs]

Them shorthairs hate the water

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