by cjhills
birddogger2 wrote:
cjhills wrote:Actually it is nothing like discussing gait and bone structure in the show ring both have reason a 12o'clock tail has none......Cj


Actually for longtails(pointers and setters particularly) there is in fact a very good reason. In four foot high grass you might just spot that 12 o'clock tail sticking up when the dog is on point.

I do agree that for short tail continentals like shorthairs a 12 o'clock tail is just window dressing... nice but not necessary.

RayG

Surely you Jest. Highly unlikely you would see a dogs tail in four foot grass.
Polmaise is right all is good and the OP learned a little lesson......Cj



by shags
Well of course a tail doesn't stick up above four foot grass, but it is visible in there as the blades thin out. Especially setter tails with the flag and all.

This time of year our state grounds have lots of bluestem and buffalo grass, and it's easier to make out high white tails than short lil stubs. Weims or vizslas, forget it, you'll trip over them before you see them because they totally blend in.



by polmaise
yea well, Just got a call from trainer : Advice needed.
..........................
Personally I would like to hear about the finish of the dog and handler ?



by PoorMansWrangler
Not sure what you mean by finish, but if you can explain it to me I will be more than happy to chime in.



by Trekmoor
JONOV wrote: "That end is for $****ing, the front is for pointing!"

!



:lol: I was drinking a mug of tea when I read the above and I sprayed out half a mouthful with my guffaw of laughter ! :lol: :lol: :lol:
I will try to remember that priceless little quote for future use ! We have got some muppet judges over here too ! :lol:

A 12 o'clock tail in Britain is not a desirable thing , we think it looks ugly as it spoils the "line" of a pointing dog.

I am very pleased to read that the dog this thread is all about seems to be back in good hands and is doing O.K.

Bill T.



by Urban_Redneck
The ideal point for most continental dogs is tail, back, and head, in a straight line. The OP said his dog was from German lines, his point sounds perfect.



by RyanDoolittle
Urban_Redneck wrote:The ideal point for most continental dogs is tail, back, and head, in a straight line. The OP said his dog was from German lines, his point sounds perfect.


The ideal point is whatever suits the owners fancy. A dog like that appeals to you, I would out it up for sale pretty quick.



by ezzy333
RyanDoolittle wrote:
Urban_Redneck wrote:The ideal point for most continental dogs is tail, back, and head, in a straight line. The OP said his dog was from German lines, his point sounds perfect.


The ideal point is whatever suits the owners fancy. A dog like that appeals to you, I would out it up for sale pretty quick.

I would have a hard time putting a dog that finds and points birds up for sale because the angle of the tail was wrong. If that was the case I would sell the 12 o'clock tails and go for the 10 o'clock tail with the forward sweep like you see on most setters. I have always found it more advantageous for me to concentrate on the other end of the dog when deciding which one to keep.

Ezzy



by polmaise
Yea well What Is the Point ? . Personally it is what it produces...But that is far removed from the Op post .. ?



by birddogger2
cjhills wrote:
birddogger2 wrote:
cjhills wrote:Actually it is nothing like discussing gait and bone structure in the show ring both have reason a 12o'clock tail has none......Cj


Actually for longtails(pointers and setters particularly) there is in fact a very good reason. In four foot high grass you might just spot that 12 o'clock tail sticking up when the dog is on point.

I do agree that for short tail continentals like shorthairs a 12 o'clock tail is just window dressing... nice but not necessary.

RayG

Surely you Jest. Highly unlikely you would see a dogs tail in four foot grass.
Polmaise is right all is good and the OP learned a little lesson......Cj



Actually I do not jest in this instance. The official AKC pointer standard states that the male pointer should be between 25-28 inches high. I have owned dogs that were in this range of heights at the shoulder. I have personally seen all age dogs from the South that were bigger. I have also both seen and owned dogs whose tails were on the order of two feet long.

Soooo... at the risk of being pedantic... my comment that you just might see a dog's tail sticking up in four foot grass, if it were at 12 o'clock was properly stated and correct. I actually have for what it is worth. A pointer's white tail can sometimes be picked out of yellow grass, especially if the grass is moving in the wind and the tail is not. Shag's comment about setters is also quite accurate.

RayG

BTW -

All high tails are not created equal. And this includes docked tail breeds also. If the root of the tail is too high on the dog's back, it can and does interfere with proper gait. I am not a veterinary orthopod, so I don't know all the correct phraseology, but too high a tailset will push the dog's back legs out from underneath and cause it to run differently. I have observed that such dogs often do not have the endurance they should, probably because they expend more effort to run.



by polmaise
I am sure the OP Is back on the right track ..and on Point .
....
Red Herrings such as Tail, and Gait and Docking of tails , and High tails/Low tails etc ..even some saying "I know when the dog is on a Woodcock or a Pheasant,when the dog lifts its front leg " ..or all manner of instances . ? ..Pure Poppycock !! (imo)
I am sure Breed Standards set by either AKC or Uk KC regarding Height/weight /gait /coat/colour /straight line back and all manner of sayings are derivative from "Show" Standards for that breed .
.....
Show me one that has these standards both sides of the pond ,that Is a Good Hunting dog that You can shoot over ? (Dont bother posting links to Dual Champions ..Please )
I will show you a Border Terrier pointing and flushing and steady to shot and fall , and retrieving tenderly to hand . !
...
Long Grass/Short Grass , what Grass is 4 feet tall and blowing in the wind ?. I shoot Ducks in 12 foot Reeds ...I use a dog no matter the breed for Its Nose ! ..Nothing else .



by RyanDoolittle
ezzy333 wrote:
RyanDoolittle wrote:
Urban_Redneck wrote:The ideal point for most continental dogs is tail, back, and head, in a straight line. The OP said his dog was from German lines, his point sounds perfect.


The ideal point is whatever suits the owners fancy. A dog like that appeals to you, I would out it up for sale pretty quick.

I would have a hard time putting a dog that finds and points birds up for sale because the angle of the tail was wrong. If that was the case I would sell the 12 o'clock tails and go for the 10 o'clock tail with the forward sweep like you see on most setters. I have always found it more advantageous for me to concentrate on the other end of the dog when deciding which one to keep.

Ezzy



With the selection of dogs now a days why would you feed one that didnt suit your fancy.

Developing a good wild bird dog is easy in my parts, we have the wild bird populations to develop young dogs. So why waste time with a dog that doesnt have the style we enjoy.

Your right the tail isnt what finds birds, but if you have a great dog to start with its time to pick what you really like in a dog.

For me its a big running dog that is fast, doesnt slow down, doesnt potter, runs with a high head, high cracking tail, and on point he stands tall, holds his head high and has a straight up tail. Shorthairs I dont mind a little lower and setters I dont mind a slight curve forward. Heck I even go as far as preferring a white dog over a dark one, though I dont worry as much about that as I do with the aspects of the dog listed above.

FYI I have owned dogs with high tails, straight tails, and low tails.



by Steve007
Always interesting to see how these threads get off track. Still, the OP got his answer. so it's not as bad as it might be, I guess. But still...