NSTRA ages

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isonychia
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NSTRA ages

Post by isonychia » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:47 pm

What is the age timeline for NSTRA trials that people typically shoot for?

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Dakotazeb
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Re: NSTRA ages

Post by Dakotazeb » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:04 pm

Please explain your question a little better. Are you asking what age people start running their dogs in NSTRA? Or what?

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isonychia
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Re: NSTRA ages

Post by isonychia » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:50 am

Dakotazeb wrote:Please explain your question a little better. Are you asking what age people start running their dogs in NSTRA? Or what?
More or less. I know NAVHDA has the junior tests and I plan on running a NSTRA trial here soon, now that one is being offered so much closer and my finances are a little more appropriate. The scoring seems to be focused on finished dogs though and I am just wondering if it is common for folks to run a younger dog who has not yet been steadied or force fetched (he'll need it).

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Re: NSTRA ages

Post by cjhills » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:05 am

Most people who run in NSTRA at least hope to be competitive. Running a dog which did not have a pretty good retrieve would not make a lot of sense. it is either win or lose. No junior level. The dog probably needs to experience NSTRA before it will be competitive, but it needs to be at the level to compete. It would be an expensive way to train.....Cj

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Re: NSTRA ages

Post by birddogger2 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:00 am

ISO -

I don't do NSTRA myself, so I took a quick look at the scoring. It appears that the dog must at least establish and hold point. As previously mentioned it is also expected to retrieve and to back.

Honestly, if your dog is not at least decently reliable in those three areas you are probably wasting your time competing. Actually it might be worse than that, because an unsteady dog can screw it up for its bracemate. You don't want that.

Assuming you don't care about the score I think the following applies. If it doesn't back and doesn't interfere with the other dog...no big deal. If it doesn't retrieve, again, no big deal as far as messing up the other dog. If the dog runs around wildly and holds its birds, that might not endear you to your bracemate's handler, but the dog is just being what it is.
But not being steady can definitely throw the other dog under the bus especially if the dog races around and bumps all the birds out of bounds. So, at a minimum, I would want to enter a dog that will point and hold a bird until I got there...at least most of the time.

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Re: NSTRA ages

Post by Dakotazeb » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:04 am

I see on the NSTRA web site that the trial I told you about by Delta, CO has been cancelled.

Young dogs can run and compete in NSTRA but they do need to be steady on point and retrieve to hand reasonably well. So it's really more about where your dog is at in training than their age. I've seen dogs as young as a year old run and do well but they are probably the exception. I think waiting until the dog is 2 years old and had some good training would be preferred.

A lot of regions are now including an Amateur Division in their trials. Actually they have gone to a new format called Open/Amateur. It still braces Open dogs against Amateur dogs but there are separate placements for the Amateur dogs. In fact, if an Amateur dog does well enough it can place in both the Open as well as the Amateur. Amateur points count towards an Amateur Championship.

Some regions also run a format called Open/Novice. Here Open dogs run against other Open dogs and Novice dogs against Novice. All dogs are competing for the Open points but at least if you have a dog new to NSTRA they won't be braced against an experienced dog.

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isonychia
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Re: NSTRA ages

Post by isonychia » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:23 am

This is exactly the info I was looking for, thank you all! Very disappointed to hear about the Delta trial being cancelled! Maybe next year, sounds like I am going to be better off putting into the NAVDHA natural ability test for this year, pup will be just shy of the 16 months cut-off and that is down in Albuquerque area so just a touch further than Delta anyways.

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Re: NSTRA ages

Post by Dakotazeb » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:34 am

Keep an eye on the national NSTRA web site or the Rocky Mountain Web site for future trials in your area.

https://nstra.org/rocky-mountain/?Id=2185

http://rockymtnnstra.com/

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Re: NSTRA ages

Post by oldbeek » Sun May 12, 2019 9:21 pm

I was 72 when I started in NSTRA and was not to shure how many years I had left. Most of my family has died of cancer suddenly. So I started my young pup in NSTRA and went against open dogs at under a year old. She got DQed some but we had fun. Grabbing up poor flying quail that set my training program back but we didn't care. I want to run my dog in off season and NSTRA simulates real hunting better than anything out there. Great people in NSTRA and my dog loves the competition. She is 5, and I am 77 and did get cancer but am beating it.

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Re: NSTRA ages

Post by shags » Mon May 13, 2019 5:24 am

My dogs and I compete, but not in NSTRA. With a green dog, I much prefer to be braced with a well-broke dog because it reduces the chance of undue pressure from a misbehaving bracemate. I also prefer to stick with Open stakes because sometimes amateur handlers aren't as on top of things as pros are. Once my dog is proofed none of that matters.

Realize that to be competitive, sometimes your entry fee is paying for a training session. Not that you go in with an untrained dog, but things happen at trials that you can't duplicate at home in training. So be ready to correct mistakes as best you can and be dq'ed for that particular run. For instance if your dog blows a back, stand him up and restrain him through the situation, then do the walk of shame back to the parking lot.

Don't get in a hurry to compete before the dog is ready...the dog should be solid on all requirements of the stake at home in training. Getting away with stuff in stakes will set you back, and misbehavior and interference with bracemates will give you and the dog a rep you don't want. Most green dogs mess up at some point, but why go in knowing the dog regularly rips birds, blows backs, and doesn't retrieve? It might be fun for you and him, but it isn't fun or fair for your bracemate.

@oldbeek....77?!? You are an inspiration. Best wishes for the best of outcomes on your treatments and continued vigor and good health.

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Re: NSTRA ages

Post by oldbeek » Mon May 13, 2019 6:05 pm

I know in field trials and hunt tests it is maddening to be braced with an untrained dog. When I was running my pup in NSTRA, I kept her at the other end of the 40+ acres so she would not interfere. In the begining she did want to play on the break away. She would not back until this last season. She knew she could find another bird instead of wasting her time backing the other dog. 75 points max for 1 back. Up to 100 points for her own point and up to another 100 for the retrieve. This is the most amazing wild bird dog ever and I am not going to screw her up trying to play a game. She has one set of rules in her head for quail. run big and be cautious. For Chukar, stay close to the old man and be real sneaky. In NSTRA, beat that other dog to the birds at all cost. In a pure training exercise, she won't even point a planted bird. Friend asked why I didn't get a master hunter title. I said she wouldn't point the bird in that venue, and if she did it would be a loose point. Probably would leave the area and go hunt for wild birds.

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Re: NSTRA ages

Post by DonF » Mon May 13, 2019 6:58 pm

I've been thinking about getting back into NSTRA. Hoping maybe the girl friend want's to run Stormy and if she doesn't dump me to soon maybe even my new puppy I pick up on Friday. I did NSTRA for several years but mostly judged. I'm not all that competitive but I do like to watch dog's. Didn't have this Novice class back then or that other that was mentioned. What's the qualification's for a novice? It would seem that after a couple maybe three trials your no longer a novice! Easy game to understand, sort like take your dog hunting for 30 min in a 30 acre field and whoever finds the most bird's wins. bear in mind, at the end of the day, the game is all about number's. You have a completely finished dog, there was no extra credit for it back then, but, it was fun and met a lot of nice people in it. Yea, think I will do it again a bit long as I don't have to travel to far. Like to find less of these double double trials too. Pay four entry fee's a weekend on two dogs and it get expensive!

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Re: NSTRA ages

Post by oldbeek » Mon May 13, 2019 9:39 pm

You don't have to run in every trial in a dbl/dbl. With me it would be stamina with 2 dogs. It is not all about numbers but numbers do help. On your score, there is style and intensity. Every step after point is called costs 3 points. Mouthing the bird looses points when I am the judge. I will give more points to a dog that holds till shot on the obedience. Dog refuses to back,, obedience score goes down.Lots of things go into the score. Unfortunately I don't have the endurance to judge for 8 hrs anymore.
In my last post I was detailing what my Brittany does. I am training a beautiful GSP for my son. He is now solid as a rock on training birds. He runs with a gait that looks as he is on roller skates. We should have named him high hopes. Quite a few dogs out of his line have made NSTRA champions.
We just have open trials but recognize (derby dog class) that is all the dogs that have never made a placement in open class. Gives the young dogs and owners some recognition within the trial.

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Dakotazeb
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Re: NSTRA ages

Post by Dakotazeb » Tue May 14, 2019 7:09 am

DonF wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 6:58 pm
What's the qualification's for a novice?
A Novice or Amateur is a dog with 3 or less open points, none of which can be first place points. I have heard there is talk of increasing that to 6 points and possibly doing away with Novice. From what I've seen in my region (Mid-North) and other regions that have gone to the new Open/Amateur Combined trial format that it is bringing in new members. And if that's what it takes to get new people involved I'm all for it.

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