Puppy vs adult dog food

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deke
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Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by deke » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:55 pm

We just got our second lab pup out of a breeder we really like. Our first pup was eating diamond/costco adult food. Chicken and rice to be specific. Our new pup is eating Putin’s proplan 30/20. I have never fed any of my pups anything but good adult food since I have brought them home with no ill effects. And I have turned a bunch of my hunting buddies onto the same idea. Today I took the new pup in for his 9 week shots and the vet asked what I feed him, when I told him he scolded me for almost ten minutes on the fact that I don’t feed puppy food. Now this is the first time I have been to this vet, we moved away from our old one that I really liked, and he never said anything about the dog food. I guess I’m curious if feeding puppy food actually has a benefit other than the higher price tag. Any insight would be helpful.

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by slistoe » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:16 pm

Puppy food does have a different nutritional profile that is geared towards the developing structure of the dog. But, IMO ProPlan 30/20 or any of its equivalents would probably be better than the cheap grade puppy foods.

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by Garrison » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:37 pm

Purina Pro Plan 30/20 is an All Life Stages food, so it is a puppy food. Was he concerned that it wasn’t large breed puppy food because you are feeding a lab? Most pointing dogs are under 65lbs so Pro Plan 30/20 in the correct amounts works as well as anything while not having to change feed. The retriever breeders we have received dogs from all recommended large breed puppy food for a year before switching to a performance food.

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by deke » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:50 am

The pups mom is 50 lbs and dad is 60. So chances are he will not be a big lab. I emailed the breeder last night. Still waiting on a reply to hear his thoughts.

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by shags » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:13 am

Feed what has worked for you, and change if it doesn't work for this particular pup.

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by birddogger2 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:55 pm

JUST WAIT -

Your new vet will probably give you a song and dance about neutering/spaying on one of your future visits.

I agree with the others. A 30/20 performance feed like Pro Plan is a OUTSTANDING food for a growing puppy.

You are your own best reference if you have been doing it that way for years with no problems.

When I get a pointer puppy, I typically feed it a 30/20 puppy ration until the bag runs out and then switch to adult 30/20 feed. I have never had a problem either.

RayG

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by deke » Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:11 pm

birddogger2 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:55 pm
JUST WAIT -

Your new vet will probably give you a song and dance about neutering/spaying on one of your future visits.

I agree with the others. A 30/20 performance feed like Pro Plan is a OUTSTANDING food for a growing puppy.

You are your own best reference if you have been doing it that way for years with no problems.

When I get a pointer puppy, I typically feed it a 30/20 puppy ration until the bag runs out and then switch to adult 30/20 feed. I have never had a problem either.

RayG


I won’t have to wait at all. I got that speech right as I sat down and again before I left. I was curious because this is only my 5th bird dog that I have owned and I know there is a ton of knowledge on this site. Much more than I have at least. Anyone have a good way to get a pup to quit biting. This pup unlike my others seems to have an obsession with it, he pretty much comes at anything like an alligator. The only time he doesn’t bite is when he is sleeping.

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by cjhills » Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:14 am

The neutering issue is not really a song and dance. it is a very important personal decision that you have to make. the pounds are full of unwanted Dogs. My personal choice in dogs that will not be used for breeding, is neutering female early in the second year hopefully before the first period and males after the second birthday. there is a lot of information on neutering, mostly slanted one way or the other.
On the food issue. I have never seen a puppy food that is 30/20. my personal preference is a little lower protein and fat because I like a little slower growth rate to limit bone stress. I have also seen some choking issues in very young puppies on adult dog food. Yours is past that. PPPP is all life stages
If you want a 30/20. This is not a major issue, any good quality, mid price range food will generally produce excellent results
On biting we do like the mother dog does. we do not tolerate biting and do what it takes to stop it. I growl at the puppy and shake it. If that does not work I hold him down. Puppies learn very quickly at this age. It is important to their survival This is a issue that needs to be stopped when the pup is a baby. it can grow into a major life changing issue if it is allowed to continue. Do not be afraid to discipline your puppy. Actions have consequences.
It's all good..…..Cj

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by deke » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:12 am

cjhills wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:14 am
The neutering issue is not really a song and dance. it is a very important personal decision that you have to make. the pounds are full of unwanted Dogs. My personal choice in dogs that will not be used for breeding, is neutering female early in the second year hopefully before the first period and males after the second birthday. there is a lot of information on neutering, mostly slanted one way or the other.
On the food issue. I have never seen a puppy food that is 30/20. my personal preference is a little lower protein and fat because I like a little slower growth rate to limit bone stress. I have also seen some choking issues in very young puppies on adult dog food. Yours is past that. PPPP is all life stages
If you want a 30/20. This is not a major issue, any good quality, mid price range food will generally produce excellent results
On biting we do like the mother dog does. we do not tolerate biting and do what it takes to stop it. I growl at the puppy and shake it. If that does not work I hold him down. Puppies learn very quickly at this age. It is important to their survival This is a issue that needs to be stopped when the pup is a baby. it can grow into a major life changing issue if it is allowed to continue. Do not be afraid to discipline your puppy. Actions have consequences.
It's all good..…..Cj

Cj.

Thank u for the advice on biting. That is basically down the line of what I am doing already, like I said this pup is a biting machine. If u smack his nose or yell he just gets more and more amped up. He reminds me much more of a buddies gsp as far as hyper level goes. Has me a little worried but also a little excited to see what kind of hunter he will be if I do it right. His prey drive is scary for a 9 week old dog, compared to my other labs who just wanted to hang out on the couch at that age. And he actually sneaks up on prey, which I’m guessing is the beginning / first stages of pointing? My other pointing lab has only “pointed” twice, I don’t train for it

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by slistoe » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:27 am

deke wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:12 am
Thank u for the advice on biting. That is basically down the line of what I am doing already, like I said this pup is a biting machine. If u smack his nose or yell he just gets more and more amped up.
Some pups like to use their teeth in play more than other pups do. When I am correcting a pup for biting they will not come back for a third attempt in a row. Period. Your choice, you can play with the pup, or you can correct a potentially serious future problem.

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by cjhills » Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:37 am

slistoe wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:27 am
deke wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:12 am
Thank u for the advice on biting. That is basically down the line of what I am doing already, like I said this pup is a biting machine. If u smack his nose or yell he just gets more and more amped up.
Some pups like to use their teeth in play more than other pups do. When I am correcting a pup for biting they will not come back for a third attempt in a row. Period. Your choice, you can play with the pup, or you can correct a potentially serious future problem.
Right. You can not afford to lose this battle while the pup is small......Cj

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by polmaise » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:27 pm

deke wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:55 pm
I have never fed any of my pups anything but good adult food since I have brought them home with no ill effects.
I guess I’m curious if feeding puppy food actually has a benefit
Any insight would be helpful.
deke,any food related thread usually brings contention/debate from many vices .
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
All over the world ,mass produced kibble by any manufacturer will have a higher protein content in Puppy marketed product than General Adult maintenance marketed product for "Fido". You can get all scientific about it if you like.
...
Almost all Puppy higher protein kibble is generally smaller in size (excluding specific Large breed stuff) , because ????? It's a Puppy !!!
So, An Adult High Protein balance /Fat Kibble at half the price of an equivalent same branded kibble ,could be made smaller in size by You !! :lol: :wink:

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by cjhills » Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:14 pm

I don't want to start another dog food battle because no matter what you feed it will probably be good. Dogs are designed to live out of the garbage can.
Purina Pro Plan performance All lifestages is what I feed my dogs. It is 30/20 and it is right around $60 for a 50# bag. PPP puppy Chicken and rice formula which is what I feed my puppies is 28/18 and is right around $60 for a 50# bag. At least at purina puppy food and adult food are nearly the same price so the price should not be a factor. I don't think it is right or wrong it is just what I have had good results with......Cj

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by Steve007 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:32 pm

cjhills wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:14 am
The neutering issue is not really a song and dance. it is a very important personal decision that you have to make. the pounds are full of unwanted Dogs.
You are confusing two issues. Whether you wish to breed the dog or not is the owner's decision, not the dog's. Irresponsible owners certainly make the wrong decision, but that is the decision. not whether to have the dogs neutered. A male dog is unlikely to steal the car keys and start scoring girls hanging out on the corner. For a responsible owner, neutering a male is a matter of obtaining up-to-date valid information and – putting aside very unusual medical conditions – the information says no. But doing so certainly has nothing whatsoever to do with more unwanted dogs.

Ezzy is the guy to comment on the food, but there is more to puppy food than protein/fat ratio. The dog will likely turn out fine either way, but the nutritionists employed by the quality dog food companies are not likely to be putting out fake news.
Last edited by Steve007 on Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by deke » Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:34 pm

I’m not trying to start a debate by any means, i was just curious on the reason why he got so defensive about feeding puppy food compared to adult food. My bet would be he was going to try to sell me the science diet they had out front until I told him I would contact my breeder and ask his opinion. Needless to say I am taking the pup to another vet where I know one of the techs. Just didn’t have a pleasant experience from the second I walked in. I really want to skip the questions about my dog being “too skinny” in a few months when he actually gets out and starts running, or the lecture when he comes in for stitches three times in a week.

As far as the biting goes, I have tried the loud noise when he bites, I have tried flicking the nose, I have tried holding his mouth till he starts whining, and nothing seems to work, my next option is a full on smack or a shock collar I would think. I want this habit broke quickly, my son is only two and a little more sensitive to biting then I am. So far there has not been an issue besides them fighting over toys. But I can see the potential. And like I said I have never dealt with this before, besides a pup getting mouthy while u are playing.

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by polmaise » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:10 pm

Puppy food v Adult food in the post title is now dissolved.
..
The new vet you can now move forward with. Happy days for All ,including the dog

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by cjhills » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:37 pm

Definitely would not use a ecollar on a puppy that young. Just make sure he understands it is not a game. Be careful with him around your son. The puppy will win that battle and that is another issue that can turn into a real problem. You don't want your son afraid of the puppy, Puppies play too rough for a baby and puppy teeth hurt. Make the punishment as harsh as it takes. Quick severe and over with. Don't pick at him.
I think you are right to look for a new vet might be hard to find one though.
One other thought when your puppy comes into his new home, he will try to find his place in the pecking order. You need to be at the top. He will very likely try to dominate the little boy. Make sure that does not happen..…..Cj

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by birddogger2 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:30 am

deke -

sent you a PM...don't know if it went thru.

Anyhow, do NOT screw around with the biting thing. Be the momma dog and do what she would do. slistoe and cjhills have that right. I have been known to bite the puppy back, and not easy either. You gotta make it hurt somewhat or the pup is not gonna get the message. If it squalls and screams and runs away after the correction...you probably got its attention. If it comes back and tries to bite again right after the correction...you were not harsh enough.

I agree that you should be as sudden, serious and as harsh as you need to be. Just like a momma dog would do. As slistoe said, his pups do not come back for third try. This one you GOTTA win, so don't be nice, don't be kind...be the momma dog and put the little sucker in its place...firmly. It is about respect, and respect in dogs has to have an element of fear. They need to know their place. Do it when the rest of the family is nowhere around and get it done.

RayG

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by JONOV » Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:35 pm

While I do think that the risks are such that they don't merit a dressing down from the vet, and maybe you should look for a new vet, there is new research that may support feeding puppy food first instead of the adult food.

For years and years, it was thought that the super high protein in puppy food led to dogs overgrowing and from that, hip dysplasia. From what I understand, it's actually calcium caused that.

But I think its one of those things that only might make a difference at the periphery.

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by slistoe » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:15 pm

JONOV wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:35 pm
For years and years, it was thought that the super high protein in puppy food led to dogs overgrowing and from that, hip dysplasia. From what I understand, it's actually calcium caused that.
I haven't ever heard either of those - what they did find through studies is that overweight puppies were more prone to displaying the effects of heritable of hip dysplasia.

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by polmaise » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:37 pm

slistoe wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:15 pm
JONOV wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:35 pm
For years and years, it was thought that the super high protein in puppy food led to dogs overgrowing and from that, hip dysplasia. From what I understand, it's actually calcium caused that.
I haven't ever heard either of those - what they did find through studies is that overweight puppies were more prone to displaying the effects of heritable of hip dysplasia.
What has been found is underweight puppies will hereditary have the same heriditary symptoms as overweight ones.! Now,all we have to do is decide what is overweight and underweight.
😂

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by JONOV » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:08 pm

slistoe wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:15 pm
JONOV wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:35 pm
For years and years, it was thought that the super high protein in puppy food led to dogs overgrowing and from that, hip dysplasia. From what I understand, it's actually calcium caused that.
I haven't ever heard either of those - what they did find through studies is that overweight puppies were more prone to displaying the effects of heritable of hip dysplasia.
Sorry, to expand...This is going on 25 years ago when we were researching for my family's first dog. The concern at the time was that puppies were being fed puppy food for too long, and that they should be weaned off of it relatively quickly, because it was thought that the reasons mentioned above caused them to grow too fast and therefore higher instances of HD. Many vets (two or three in the family and the two we'd see at the regular practice we went to) advised to get them off of it around three or four months old. Now, some of that thinking has been changed, since among other reasons, the calcium was found to be partly responsible. Of course with HD, there is no smoking gun like one finds with some other maladies.

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by V-John » Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:02 pm

deke wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:34 pm
I’m not trying to start a debate by any means, i was just curious on the reason why he got so defensive about feeding puppy food compared to adult food. My bet would be he was going to try to sell me the science diet they had out front until I told him I would contact my breeder and ask his opinion. Needless to say I am taking the pup to another vet where I know one of the techs. Just didn’t have a pleasant experience from the second I walked in. I really want to skip the questions about my dog being “too skinny” in a few months when he actually gets out and starts running, or the lecture when he comes in for stitches three times in a week.

I certainly would be changing vets as well. I will not be lectured to, nor will I be pressured into neutering or feeding "'X" food.

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by birddogger2 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:37 pm

deke --0

I have told this story before, but I think it may bear repeating.

I took one of my pointers in for a rabies vaccination. It was, I think, in Late October or early November, so the dog was in absolutely peak physical shape...ready to run for an hour in front of a horse. The vet tech was visibly upset at the dog's appearance and made mention of the dog being "too thin". I went in and the vet administered the vaccination, and I mentioned the exchange with the vet, who was raised in a hunting family. She knew what a bird dog was supposed to do and what it was supposed to look like, which is why I liked dealing with her.

The vet asked if I had a bit of time to spare so she could educate the staff. I agreed. She gathered all the techs and proceeded to explain to them that what they were looking at was a dog in nearly perfect physical condition. She explained that virtually all of the dogs they see, day in, day out, are clinically overweight, with many bordering on grossly obese.

She had each tech, run their hands over the dog, especially its chest, flanks and back to understand that what they were feeling was toned muscle over bone... with virtually no fat. She had each tech look at the dog from above and see the defined, hourglass shape where the chest meets the loin and then flows into the back leg area. Some of the vet techs were in an obvious state of "denial" at first, but between the vet's commentary and my description of what I expect the dog to do, I think some of them actually came around.

RayG

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by Garrison » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:55 pm

Funny, I read the rest of this thread earlier today before I took my new Setter pup to the Vet. I really like the guy, gentleman in his 60’s both he and his wife are vets. But I haven’t seen him for anything other than my older dogs. I was wondering how it would go.

Basically:

“Dog looks great, don’t see too many of them so well put together.”

“What are you doing for feed, oh Purina Pro Plan 30/20. Don’t change a thing, I think it is the best you can possibly do for this guy.”

“Are you still worming with the goat wormer? Good stuff let me look up the dose for that product.”

“I don’t give this advice to all my clients, but if you plan to run the piss out of this guy like your other dog, do him a favor and don’t neuter him, he is going to need all of it. I used to be against what I just told you but I have learned I was dead wrong, yes even old vets can learn a thing or two.”

All advice was already in the works, but knowing you got the right person for the job is comforting.

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by Mackenzie » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:57 pm

Could you please elaborate on the “ goat wormer “ ?
I’m get my pup GSP on May 11th. Do you use this instead of the regular heart worm pills?

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Re: Puppy vs adult dog food

Post by Garrison » Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:23 pm

Mackenzie wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:57 pm
Could you please elaborate on the “ goat wormer “ ?
I’m get my pup GSP on May 11th. Do you use this instead of the regular heart worm pills?
I use Safe-Guard goat dewormer as a broad spectrum wormer for my dogs and pups. It is the same active ingredient (10% solution Fenbendazole) as panacur dog wormer in a larger container at a reduced price, available at any feed store. Not a big deal for one dog but cheaper if you have multiple dogs that need worming. My vet recommends it because it is effective on most types of worms and has a good safety margin. I don't believe it is effective against heart worms. There are several websites that have dosing charts posted and the length of treatment but I would check with your vet about dosing, or if it is even needed for your pup.

Garrison

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