Pointing dog breed for retirement

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Texstucker
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Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by Texstucker » Sat Aug 14, 2021 3:20 pm

I used to hunt waterfowl with Labs, currently dogless :cry: . I have an out of town work assignment that will last another 18 months so not looking for a dog at this moment, but I am looking forward to getting a pointing dog for preserve hunting in the Mid-Atlantic when I am back home. I plan on getting a started or finished dog and have several trusted trainers in reach. I like the Rick Smith method and have hunted behind several RS trained dogs. My situation is that the dog will be a companion dog that hunts. Knowing that all dogs are individuals, our goal is to have a generally calm natured animal around the house. We can exercise the dog regularly with walks and have access to training grounds, but we live in suburbia. Plan on about 10 to 15 hunt days a year.

I would like breed suggestions based on above desires for a calm natured couch potato hunting companion.

Thanks!

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by slistoe » Sat Aug 14, 2021 3:51 pm

My experience has been that English Pointers, Setters, and Brittany's have a better on/off switch than GSP's and GWP's. Other folks mileage may vary.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by Texstucker » Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:22 pm

Thank you.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by RayGubernat » Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:14 pm

Texstucker -

I can speak to pointers in particular and will say that most all of mine over the years had a very definite "off" switch. Most all of my dogs were outside kennel dogs but were quite mellow once they go their run around the back yard and I am quite sure they would have been fine in the house, if they had been given the opportunity. Understand that I have consistently gotten puppies with the very best shooting dog field trial breeding I can, so these dogs are VERY driven when hunting.

Now I will say that until the dogs were 2 years old or so, they were absolute demons, so your idea of getting an older dog makes great sense.

FWIW, my BIL(Britt haven Brittanys) raised many litters of companion gundog Brittanys over a span of years and most of those dogs had the run of the house and property. Most all of the dogs he kept were pretty good in and around the house and were a pleasure to be around(at least I thought so). At any one point in time there were a dozen or more Brittanys roaming around his place. I hunted over a bunch of them, over the years and they were a little close for my taste, but they did a fine job in the field. He closed his kennel several years back and has since passed away, but you could do a lot worse that a companion hunting Britt similar to what he produced.

RayG

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by Texstucker » Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:49 pm

RayG,

Appreciate the info. Close working dogs are fine with the places I plan to hunt. Most of my Labs were also demon-ish until they were two LOL.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by Dakotazeb » Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:22 am

I've had Brittanys for over 25 years. All my dogs had/have the off switch. They are very laid back around the house but do need regular exercise. More than just a walk. But I would say that is true of any of the pointing breeds. The breeding is important and for what you are looking for I would stay away from most field trial breeds especially big running dogs from horseback trials. I think the environment the dog is raised in is also critical to having a calm dog around the house. My dogs all grew up in a home without young children so it was a quieter environment. Good luck with your search for a four legged companion.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by deseeker » Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:27 am

One thing about getting a started or trained dog, you will have an idea about his hunting ability and how calm he is when not hunting. I agree with looking at britts, pointers, & setters. You might also look at Vizslas as well--the ones I've been around are pretty mellow and hunt close. Good luck finding your new dog. :D

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by fishvik » Sun Aug 15, 2021 12:22 pm

I have hunted with, owned and been around a lot of the bearded continental pointing and retrieving breeds. I think older GWP, Pudelpointers or pointing Griffs would meet your needs. I will agree that young ones are heck on wheels but they seem to calm down by 2. They also have personalities that often come across as comical so they make great family and companion dogs.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by polmaise » Sun Aug 15, 2021 5:14 pm

Texstucker wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 3:20 pm
I used to hunt waterfowl with Labs, currently dogless :cry: . I have an out of town work assignment that will last another 18 months so not looking for a dog at this moment, but I am looking forward to getting a pointing dog for preserve hunting in the Mid-Atlantic when I am back home. I plan on getting a started or finished dog and have several trusted trainers in reach. I like the Rick Smith method and have hunted behind several RS trained dogs. My situation is that the dog will be a companion dog that hunts. Knowing that all dogs are individuals, our goal is to have a generally calm natured animal around the house. We can exercise the dog regularly with walks and have access to training grounds, but we live in suburbia. Plan on about 10 to 15 hunt days a year.

I would like breed suggestions based on above desires for a calm natured couch potato hunting companion.

Thanks!
Any breed is sufficient enough for what you ask including a malamute or a Terrier.
340 -350 days a year.
Your plan looks good, with support locally , so rock on.
Preference in method or methods from experience also sounds good ,if that's what satisfies.
Living in suburbia has limitations . lol

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by Steve007 » Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:50 pm

fishvik wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 12:22 pm
I have hunted with, owned and been around a lot of the bearded continental pointing and retrieving breeds. I think older GWP, Pudelpointers or pointing Griffs would meet your needs. I will agree that young ones are heck on wheels but they seem to calm down by 2. They also have personalities that often come across as comical so they make great family and companion dogs.
This is quite accurate. Pudelpointers are sufficiently rare that you can probably discard them just based on availability and you may not like the looks of the super shaggy Griffon. But GWPs are really funny humorous dogs -- most of them sleep on their backs when kept as house dogs -- and if you put in a little bit of time grooming, they are very attractive dogs as well. And the fact that they can be protective of you and your family if they have to be may be a positive to you. It is to me. Mine goes to the office with me every day. Very fine breed, and dedicated bird dogs too.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by greg jacobs » Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:55 pm

I'd say you just can't generalize when talking about pointing breeds.. there is a wide range in every breed that I know of. Close working to next county, off switch to bouncing off the walls. I would highly suggest finding a kennel that breeds the type of dog that you want. What ever breed you want.

Possibly german long hair, a calmer line of English setter

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by Gneiss Dog » Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:45 pm

I’d say greg is spot on. Hard to generalize even the field trial lines sometimes get a boot licker and line of foot hunting dogs can get a run off.
Talk w breeders and trainers, go and see how the dogs hunt. Ask lots questions. You may just not want to take a crate with you till you are pretty well decided on one. It’s easier to say no or come back latter when you don’t have the crate to take one home with you. Good luck w the search.


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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by Texstucker » Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:06 am

Good feedback, thanks to all. German Longhair Pointer, that was new to me.

Not taking a crate - absolutely agree. This will be easier I think since we will be looking for at least started dogs. No doubt will want to watch the dog hunt and if possible how it acts back at the house since any time they are in the truck or in the field assume the switch will be "on".

Are there breeds that specialize in close working dogs or are such animals one-offs/trial washouts? I mean, definitely don't want a true boot licker and we don't have horses. With expectation of more aches and pains of my own as time goes on, don't want to be in a hurry in the field either and enjoy seeing the dogs and watching them work. I do understand range can be trained to some degree as well, correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by greg jacobs » Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:06 pm

Sure you can reel them back in but it isn't pleasant for you or the dog. MUCH better to buy what you want for range. Much more pleasant to have your dog range what you are comfortable with. That way you aren't hacking them in all the time.
A gentleman brought in the German longhairs to Central Washington. I know a couple people with them. The ones I've seen were slower working than my gsp's. Have good noses retrieve point. Related to large musterlanders,nice dogs as well. One of the german versatile dogs. Seem calmer than my gsp's. One of the gentleman shoots far more chuckar than I behind them. The small musterlanders are another nice dog. All slower working that the higher powered pointing breeds.
That being said, you can find closer working lines in, pointers, setters, brits, gsp's. Or the breathtaking ranges. Lol. They all have a huge range of dogs to choose from. If you are wanting a 200 yd dog I wouldn't suggest AA dogs. I'd lean more towards navhda lines. Even with navhda lines you can get a pretty lively dog. Do your research and buy exactly what you want.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by greg jacobs » Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:23 pm

I'll also say as you get older you don't want a 30 yd dog. I want mine to cover the ground so I dont have too. I also don't want an 800 yd dog because you are climbing over 2 ridges to shoot a chukar that may not be there when you arrive. Lol. A 200 yd dog works for me. In open country they might hit 300yds in heavy cover 100 to 150yds. Never have to call them back in. Just walk along enjoying the quiet.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by Texstucker » Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:34 pm

Thanks. All the information just reinforces that I need to see the dog hunt and be sure to communicate up front what the goal is. Since I don't know the pointing dog folks, I just assumed they all want to sell the big casting dogs (I had to look up AA dogs). Like the waterfowl folks all want the hard charging dog to make 300 yard blind handled retrieves. Uh, no - in the swamps we hunt you can't see the dog 100 yards away and you can't handle a dog you can't see, not to mention if you need 300 yard blinds then you need to learn how to hit 'em harder LOL!

I like the navhda suggestion as well, didn't think of that.

So I will take my own lessons learned and your suggestions and when the time is right get to work on the dog search.

All the best.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by Dakotazeb » Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:33 am

greg jacobs wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:23 pm
I'll also say as you get older you don't want a 30 yd dog. I want mine to cover the ground so I dont have too.
I agree 100%. I've said this on various forums for years. At 75 I can't cover the ground I once could, thus I want a dog that will work further out and cover the ground for me. Holding point until I get there. This seem contrary to the common belief that as the hunter gets older and unable to cover as much ground they need a closer working dog.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by RayGubernat » Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:05 pm

As we get older, I think many of us(myself included) need to strike a balance between the dog that "goes after it" and one that stays close.

For me and for where and how I hunt as long, as the dog is in sight most of the time...I'm good with that. If it circles back toward me as I call, I'm really good with that.

I truly believe the key metric here is that the dog "wants" to stay with me. Now understand that every dog I have ever owned was born and bred to "go over the hill" in search of birds. But when it comes to a choice between going over the hill and swinging back... the dog will often choose to swing back...because it "wants" to stay with me.

A good dog(of WHATEVER breed) will have an elastic range....pushing out when the cover is light and open and sucking it in when the cover is thick and visibility is limited. I have always maintained that the reason for having a pointing dog is so that IT can go and hunt a bunch of places, so I DON"T have to.
An honest dog will find birds and hold them 'till you get there. Sure, as the years roll by, it takes me longer and longer to cover the distance between the dog and myself. If the bird lifts or runs out from under the point before I get there...I don't usually blame the dog.

I honestly believe that the dogs are aware of my limitations also and some(not all) do actually "shade "me a little, even though I know they would rather run more wide open. I appreciate that when it happens.

RayG

PS -

As we age and lose mobility that elastic range I spoke of usually has to get a more than a little shorter when it gets to the thick and nasty, because I for one simply may not be able to get from here to there. Your mileage may vary.
Last edited by RayGubernat on Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by sns2 » Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:08 am

Ray, that is an excellent answer!

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by MNTonester » Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:47 pm

Every Griff I've seen has been the type you seem to be looking for.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by Texstucker » Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:04 pm

Griff - interesting. I happened to take a canned Orvis "dog selector quiz" and based on my answers the Griffon was number 2, GWP was 3, vizula was 10 and Brittany was 11 - not sure why the Brittany was down the list. I don't really take any stock in it, but was intersted in the WHG landing at number 2.

Bearded dogs - can you moderately trim the beard during off season? I assume the beard is part of the scent gathering and perhaps protecting in nature.

I am dog-experienced, just not pointing breed experienced. My labs came from field trial and hunt test stock and some were hard charging but one was a cool customer, laid back but could do all of the work, as if "I will be glad to do it if it is important to you..." great dog.

So I understand there are generalities - pointing dogs generally point and herding dogs push crowds. And then there are the exceptions and one-offs.

I am not a high strung testosterone filled camoflouge laden hunter guy, more of a nerd. I wear ties and fedoras when shooting over pointing dogs and sometimes when duck hunting. It is about the day, the company, the dogs, the guns, and of course the birds. I would look at a dog that was a trial or hunt test wash-out provided there was a foundation. I like good meat dogs.

Appreciate all the input, soaking it all up so keep it coming!!

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by NEhomer » Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:38 am

Buy a setter.


...that's all.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by JONOV » Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:27 pm

Texstucker wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:06 am
Good feedback, thanks to all. German Longhair Pointer, that was new to me.

Not taking a crate - absolutely agree. This will be easier I think since we will be looking for at least started dogs. No doubt will want to watch the dog hunt and if possible how it acts back at the house since any time they are in the truck or in the field assume the switch will be "on".

Are there breeds that specialize in close working dogs or are such animals one-offs/trial washouts? I mean, definitely don't want a true boot licker and we don't have horses. With expectation of more aches and pains of my own as time goes on, don't want to be in a hurry in the field either and enjoy seeing the dogs and watching them work. I do understand range can be trained to some degree as well, correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks.
I'd say that you need to talk to the individual breeder, as there are dogs of every breed that are bred with no intention of competing with them in horseback/All Age type events.

But, on the whole, I'd say Pudelpointers, GWP's, Griffons, are very seldom ever seen in Horseback competition. Of the more esoteric breeds, the same can be said of Spinones, German Longhairs, Munsterlanders, Bracque de Francais...

Most GSP's are bred for foot hunters; same is true for Brittany's and Vizslas. But there are some field trial lines that push out there.

Many, many Setters are bred for the grouse and woodcock woods (shorter range, mostly) but there are some that are bred for more range.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by Sharon » Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:51 pm

Very well said. Yes , it is all in the breeding. I had a runt setter who did great in the American Field walking field trials. Bred from Uplander's Contessa and 5x CH Shady Hills Billy ( cover dog Championships). Can't assume a setter will hunt very close, as you said.
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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by oldbeek » Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:12 pm

late to this conversation, but did I sense that you may be hunting ducks in the mid Atlantic states? If so, a Brittany has a pretty light coat. That may be why your Orvis search came up with Brittanys at #11.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by polmaise » Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:25 pm

Well said, ...but it is more (imo) in the nurture and the training , rather than the breeding of any breed lines tbh.
You can train a Whippet to be a champion at agility just as much as you can nurture a field trial champion Setter bred dog to be a couch potato .
Terriers, however are somewhat different, or more 'Indifferent' , much like some owners of 'Pointing dogs' and breeders of them. For retirement , One of those 'Coon hounds' sitting on the porch on a lazy sunny day sounds good for retirement to me. 8)

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by greg jacobs » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:40 am

I have a 800yd dog and a 300yd dog.
I'm comfortable with 300 yds. He circles back and keeps in touch. I can hunt all day and never have to say a word. My 800yd dog I've trained to bend on the tone. So after a few thousand tones she stays closer. Hasn't been pleasant for either one of us. Yes you can do it but why when you can buy the range you want.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by oldbeek » Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:27 am

Dakotazeb wrote:
Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:33 am
greg jacobs wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:23 pm
I'll also say as you get older you don't want a 30 yd dog. I want mine to cover the ground so I dont have too.
I agree 100%. I've said this on various forums for years. At 75 I can't cover the ground I once could, thus I want a dog that will work further out and cover the ground for me. Holding point until I get there. This seem contrary to the common belief that as the hunter gets older and unable to cover as much ground they need a closer working dog.
The Garmin locating collars are the greatest invention ever made for us old guys. At 75 I was chasing Chukar up 200 ft bluffs. At 80, my Brittany knows my limitations and stays within 15 yards while doing the climb. Works at 30 yards in rough going lava and works 300 yards or more in open country.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by Texstucker » Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:46 pm

Continued thanks for the feedback!!

An occasional duck hunt would be in the mix but not the primary target.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by DonF » Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:12 am

I was a die hard GSP fan for many years, best I felt I could do. Like the Britt really well and they can fit into you pretty well. Then went to Washington to judge at an Amer Fld Irish trial and met my first Red Setters. What I saw from them blew my mind and after the stake I talked to a guy about a puppy. Well year and a half later I got my first Red Setter pup and could not be happier. They take training as well as a shorthair and are very forgiving of your mistakes. Great in the house and outside. I have three of them today and they go out and do chores with me everyday. Sometimes my males will take a walk I'd rather they didn't take but call them and they come right back. My female discovered the next door neighbor will give her treats and if she come's up missing I go next door and get her. Often she's in their house eating snacks! I have seem a lot of E. Setter's I really like but their nature can be to soft. Screw up in training and they will make you pay for it for months! Also like the pointer, many are bred to be horseback trial dogs and for someone without a horse and lot's of time to train, you'll likely have a dog that will run off when turned loose. What ever breed you decide on, don't be overly impressed with the all age trial dogs. They breed for them and they can be a huge handful to work with as independence and range are greatly amplified. Great for a field trial dog, not so good for a casual hunter. Have seen a good number of Wirehairs run and most seem to be really nice dog's. But just don't care to look at most of them. Another breed you might look at is the Vizla. I have a suspicion they are a sleeper for the average hunter! I'd throw in the Weimaraner too except many are rather large dogs but you might like the larger dog.

You should go around and look at a bunch of different breeds and look at adults. Then you'll have an idea where to go. Don't look at puppy's, they have a bad habit of making you fall in love with them and until they grow up can usually be a huge pain in the butt! But also they generally grow out of that whatever the breed.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by DonF » Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:23 am

Dakotazeb wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:22 am
I've had Brittanys for over 25 years. All my dogs had/have the off switch. They are very laid back around the house but do need regular exercise. More than just a walk. But I would say that is true of any of the pointing breeds. The breeding is important and for what you are looking for I would stay away from most field trial breeds especially big running dogs from horseback trials. I think the environment the dog is raised in is also critical to having a calm dog around the house. My dogs all grew up in a home without young children so it was a quieter environment. Good luck with your search for a four legged companion.
Considering a pointing dog I think something is important to recognize. You want a good dog around the house? A tired dog is a good dog! Most every pointing breed I've ever had or seen is high energy. Have to let them wear that energy off and then take them in the house. Take's less to run off the energy in some dog's than in other's and even in some of the same breed than others! Don't go into this blind and recognize to some degree the type dog your looking for is going the be high energy to some level or it's not gonna work out for you!

breed I forgot to mention is the French Pointing Griffon. Have only seen a few but the one's I have seen were pretty laid back for pointing dogs! Cutest pup I ever saw was also a FPG, loved the little turd! Of the few I have seen I have not seen even one unhappy owner but the breed may be hard to find and expensive.

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Re: Pointing dog breed for retirement

Post by AtTheMurph » Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:14 pm

I had the exact same requirements as the OP. Have had brittany, weimaraner and vizsla in the past. Wife said no to those in the house.

After doing a bunch of research found the Braque Francais type Pyrenees https://www.pheasantsforever.org/BlogLa ... reeds.aspx

Smaller, very calm in the house and great in the field. Mine is under 50lbs, has never ripped down the curtains, scratched through the front doo, torn up carpeting, or eaten a 10 foot long couch. All things my other dogs have done.

For someone who is approaching 60s years old and lives in suburbia, I couldn't think of a better gun dog than the BF.

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