New dog advice

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stigs
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New dog advice

Post by stigs » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:10 am

I'm looking to pick everyone's brain on the best breed of dog for me. I don't have a lot of time over any other dog other than my English Cocker Spaniel so I'm looking for input from everyone else's experience.

I live in Western PA and I really only hunt pheasant or the rare grouse if I stumble upon one. I really don't see any duck/goose hunting in my future so a dog that goes in the water is not a priority.

I'm looking for a pointer dog that knows how to turn it down a bit when they are inside as this dog will live with the rest of the family. With that being said, I realize bird dogs are high strung and full of energy that need good exercise. I have an average size house with 3 acres of mowed lawn that I use to pay fetch, train etc. to burn out that energy. On top of that, my son is a runner so they can get some good exercise running the trails with him.

I currently have an English Cocker Spaniel that I pheasant hunt with and I lover her for the first couple days after the fields are stocked. She does great in any type of cover and is great a chasing cripples and does well on retrieves. Where she struggles (maybe it's just me) but since she is such a close working dog, it's not all that uncommon to go out and walk 6-8 miles and not find a bird so...

I'm looking for a dog that will range out (100-200 yds) and work to find that next bird and then hold that point until I get there. The dog doesn't have to be awesome at retrieving birds as I can always send in the Cocker to find the dead/crippled bird.

I initially thought about a GSP. I've hunted over GSP once and they seem like the perfect fit except I've been told that they are not so great in the house as the really don't have an off switch.

I then shifted my thoughts over to an English Pointer but I've read they aren't much for colder weather. Our first month or 2 is pretty warm but in Jan and Feb it gets pretty darn cold. I've also read stories of these Pointers running great distances. While I don't mind in fact I want a dog that ranges out a bit, I need to keep in mind that I'm on a game lands and there are often other hunters there. I don't want a dog running 2-3 fields down from me messing with someone else's hunt.

The other 2 breeds I thought about were Brittany and English Setter. I would prefer a dog with a shorter coat as grooming can be a pain on the Cocker but, if I can get everything else I'm looking for I'm willing to work with the grooming of the dog.

Any advice/tips anyone has on pro's and con's are greatly appreciated.

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Sharon
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Re: New dog advice

Post by Sharon » Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:02 pm

Imo how far out the dog ranges depends entirely on breeding and training. Before buying, see how the parents work. You can train a field trial champion capable dog to work at 200 yards , but why would you set yourself up for that kind of hard work?

Not sure what this means: " I don't have a lot of time over any other dog other than my English Cocker Spaniel." quote

Should you be getting a second dog?
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Steve007
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Re: New dog advice

Post by Steve007 » Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:04 pm

Sharon wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:02 pm
Not sure what this means: " I don't have a lot of time over any other dog other than my English Cocker Spaniel." quote

Should you be getting a second dog?
Sharon has an excellent point. What you are describing is a well-trained bird dog and a well-trained house dog. If you are not willing to put in the time, your odds of achieving either of these are not particularly great. And most bird dogs -- given enough exercise -- are not really "high strung". They're pretty good house dogs if you put in some daily obedience work with them over time. Otherwise, it's likely to be a different story with any good-sized breed.

You might consider looking around for an adult dog works to your specifications in the field. The unfortunate reality is that there always more good dogs than there are good homes for them, and an adult is a lot less work than a puppy. You still may have to put in some daily obedience work, but no sensible person ever went wrong with a well selected adult dog.

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Re: New dog advice

Post by RayGubernat » Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:36 pm

"I don't have a lot of time over any other dog other than my English Cocker Spaniel so I'm looking for input from everyone else's experience."

My take on this statement is that the poster has only had experience hunting over their cocker and is looking for advice on pointing breeds from those that have them.

That said, I will echo Sharon's words about seeing how the parents hunt. I personally have always had pointers and they have always been from the biggest running breeding... which you definitely do not need. However, one thing I will tell you is that, with ANY pointing breed, it is very wise to make good friends with that dog...as a puppy. You want them to think the sun rises and sets on you because, if the dog likes you,it will come back for you if it gets out there a bit, and will want to include you in the hunt.

Even the most cooperative pointing dog has to have a measure of independence. It HAS to, because its job is to range out and hunt the area, so you don't have to walk there. If that independence is balanced by its desire to be with you and hunt with you... THAT is a winning combination.
There are Pointers and Setters, Shorthairs, Vizslak and even some Brittanys that are bred to want to punch holes in the horizon. But there are others of each of these breeds that are perfectly happy to hunt at much more "hunter friendly" ranges.

Of the breeds you mentioned,I think Brittanys might have the largest percentage of puppies with the characteristics you value. They do have a fairly good "off switch" and they are quite personable and fun to be around. The majority of the breed tends to hunt closer, and be more attentive to their hunter than Pointers, Setters and Shorthairs, I think.

Pointers have a definite 'off switch" but they are hunting machines first and foremost. Some can be a bit aloof, especially to strangers. I have had several who were absolutely fine with, even protective of family members, but really couldn'tcare less about the rest of the world. I know a few folks who have pointers in the home and they do fine. Mine are all outside kennel dogs, so I can't comment except to say that many of them would, I think, do just fine in the house after they got past the puppy stage. You CAN find closer working pointers if you focus on grouse and other walking venues.

One thing about shorthaired dogs in the house. The short hair tends to embed itself in fabrics and be a real PIA to remove. Longer hair tends to sit on top of the fabrics for easier removal.

I have rambled on enough...enjoy the search.

RayG

stigs
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Re: New dog advice

Post by stigs » Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:08 am

Thanks for a the replies guys I appreciate it. My comment regarding not having much time over any other dog than my Cocker is a bit confusing. What I meant to say is that I don't have a lot of experience hunting with other dogs. My Cocker is pretty well trained and she does an good job. I' m not looking to replace her, but to add another member to the family.

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Sharon
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Re: New dog advice

Post by Sharon » Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:22 am

Got it. Sorry I misunderstood.
There is a super breeder of English Setters in upper New York that you might want to look into. Yes , they have a history of Champion breedings, but not every dog is Championship material. They may have the perfect one for you. (My husband tells me that is too far a drive though. :) )

https://www.facebook.com/ShadyHillsKennel/
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Re: New dog advice

Post by KCKLH » Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:27 pm

English Pointer wouldn’t be a bad way to go. Mine is awesome in the house as a matter of fact he’s the family favorite and hunts just like you describe. A good dog will adapt to the range you want it to run based on terrain. I’ve had GSPs before and I’d like to get a setter as my next dog but after this dog I will always have a pointer in my house.

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AtTheMurph
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Re: New dog advice

Post by AtTheMurph » Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:34 am

The answer is a Braque Francais type Pyrenees.

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Re: New dog advice

Post by RayGubernat » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:52 am

AtTheMurph wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:34 am
The answer is a Braque Francais type Pyrenees.
Actually, I have seen two different Braques in the field. One was a Braque Francais and one was a Braque du Bourbonnaise( I think). Both were older dogs(older than5i think) when I saw them work and they did a nice job in the field and each s calm as dishwater when hanging around their master and not hunting. The worked a little close for my taste, but, as I said, they covered the ground and found birds just fine. They pointed with style and intensity. Not bad at all(except for the short tail LOL).

I do not know how many such dogs are available, but I suspect they are fairly rare. I have only seen those two dogs in quite a few years afield, but if the ones i saw were indicative of the breed... might not be a bad option.

RayG

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oldbeek
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Re: New dog advice

Post by oldbeek » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:07 pm

Ray G has some good points, especially about gsp hair. I love Pendelton wool shirts. Gsp hair ties into that wool at both ends of the hair. Has to be picked off one hair at a time.I had big GSP line. I found lava rock was harder on their feet than the Brittanys. My current and last Brittanys had a range of 300 yards till the found birds. After you hit a covey they work close and very methodical, checking every bush. Only had one EP and he was just weird but I didn't have the time for him as I do now being retired. Brittanys travel better than big GSP,s do. Smaller. Just my 2 cents.

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gonehuntin'
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Re: New dog advice

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:54 pm

I think EVERY dog can be trained to have an "off" switch, if there is indeed, such a thing. It's called obedience. If you don't let a dog be a rowdy, undisciplined animal in the house they won't be. I WON'T own a dog unless it's a house dog. They live IN THE HOUSE WITH ME 100% of the time. I've lived with field trial class Retrievers, and pointing dog's and NEVER had a problem with any of them IF THEY WERE OBEDIENCE TRAINED. That's the key. I have Drahthaars but for you, I'm going to go with a GSP. They have easier coat maintenance that other breeds and can be good family dog's if trained to do so.

I do think you're going to be surprised at the number of birds you shoot over a different dog. You will, I believe shoot as many or MORE birds over a flushing dog than a pointing dog, if you keep that dog at 40 yards or less. I've thought about this and studied it quite a lot and though I personally wouldn't go back to a flushing breed, they'll put more birds in the bag for you. Were I you I'd be looking at GSP's of Boykin Spaniels.

Keep in mind also that it is FAR easier and less time consuming to turn out a superb flushing dog than it is a superb pointing dog.

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Re: New dog advice

Post by polmaise » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:18 pm

stigs wrote:
Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:08 am
What I meant to say is that I don't have a lot of experience hunting with other dogs. My Cocker is pretty well trained and she does an good job. I' m not looking to replace her, but to add another member to the family.
If it ain't broke , don't fix it.
Another Cocker ,would be an addition.

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AtTheMurph
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Re: New dog advice

Post by AtTheMurph » Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:00 pm

RayGubernat wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:52 am
AtTheMurph wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:34 am
The answer is a Braque Francais type Pyrenees.
Actually, I have seen two different Braques in the field. One was a Braque Francais and one was a Braque du Bourbonnaise( I think). Both were older dogs(older than5i think) when I saw them work and they did a nice job in the field and each s calm as dishwater when hanging around their master and not hunting. The worked a little close for my taste, but, as I said, they covered the ground and found birds just fine. They pointed with style and intensity. Not bad at all(except for the short tail LOL).

I do not know how many such dogs are available, but I suspect they are fairly rare. I have only seen those two dogs in quite a few years afield, but if the ones i saw were indicative of the breed... might not be a bad option.

RayG
Dog in my profile pic is a Braque Francais. I don't think his tail is short. Longer than a GSP's!

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Re: New dog advice

Post by Dakotazeb » Sat Feb 18, 2023 11:06 am

I'm a Brittany guy so I'm a little partial to that breed. But I think a Brittany would fit your needs very nicely. All the Brittanys I've had have had an off switch in the house. Very laid back and quiet. but they can really turn it on once they hit the field. My last two have had short flat coats that never require any trimming. Just an occasional brushing. However, like most dogs they do shed at various times of the year. Good luck selecting your next partner.

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