Looking at puppies

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RatDog
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Looking at puppies

Post by RatDog » Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:29 am

I know there is ample content here and elsewhere about picking a puppy. I have a couple specific questions. The pups are 4 weeks old. I went by just to check them out. There are 3 females. I took them outside individually and watched them a bit then watched the litter all together for a while.

The breeder said the pup I like has a tendency to get tired first. Tends to be the first one to lie down when they are horsing around. Is that something worth paying attention to? Do traits like that in puppies actually show what they’ll be like later as dogs? Or do they change so much that it’s not useful information?

One of the puppies was the most bold and curious on its own outside. With the other pups she seemed like a bit of a wuss. Would just get beat up on without sticking up for herself. How much can you read into how the dog interacts with its litter mates?

Thanks!


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CDN_Cocker
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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by CDN_Cocker » Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:42 am

How a pup is at 4 weeks has no bearing on how it'll turn out. Just pick the one you like the looks of best. If there was a way to pick the best that's all there would be

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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by Steve007 » Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:34 am

CDN_Cocker wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:42 am
How a pup is at 4 weeks has no bearing on how it'll turn out. Just pick the one you like the looks of best. If there was a way to pick the best that's all there would be
I'm certainly willing to admit that you can see some qualities at eight weeks-- or seven. But four weeks? Don't know what the breeder's motivation or knowledge is, but CDN Cocker is correct. Personally, I would not be enthralled with a breeder that gave such faulty information. Those pups have only had their eyes eyes open for a week. What kind of exercise do you think they are getting to tire them out? They will be sleeping 18 or 20 hours a day. Or more.

gypsy
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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by gypsy » Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:42 am

Give a deposit for your choice.

Visit once a week.

If possible visit at feeding time. That will tell you a LOT! I like the ones that stand in the middle of the food bowel as the others play the round and round game.

Another thing to do is sit on the floor to see which has the best reaction to you.

If you can get a live pigeon clip it's wings. Take all the puppies outside. Make sure the pigeon has all there attention. Give it a toss and see which pup gets to it first

I like to choose buy which one is the most pleasant to look at. You will be looking at this dog for many years.

What you see is what you get.

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Garrison
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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by Garrison » Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:32 am

I have found selecting the breeder is much more important than selecting the litter, much less the pup. I don’t pay a breeder for my pup, I pay them for their knowledge and their life’s work. As important, if not more than the two dogs being bred, is the many many dogs which were by all means great dogs. Yet not good enough or didn’t display enough of what the breeder was looking for in their line that didn’t get bred. After that, I pick the male pup I like the looks of the most in the litter which they recommend for my particular wants/needs. Of course I want to see the dogs work, but it’s a roll of the dice anyway you slice it. If it wasn’t, the top field trialers wouldn’t keep a whole bunch of them for the first year.

Garrison
Last edited by Garrison on Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sharon
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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by Sharon » Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:42 am

Steve007 wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:34 am
CDN_Cocker wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:42 am
How a pup is at 4 weeks has no bearing on how it'll turn out. Just pick the one you like the looks of best. If there was a way to pick the best that's all there would be
I'm certainly willing to admit that you can see some qualities at eight weeks-- or seven. But four weeks? Don't know what the breeder's motivation or knowledge is, but CDN Cocker is correct. Personally, I would not be enthralled with a breeder that gave such faulty information. Those pups have only had their eyes eyes open for a week. What kind of exercise do you think they are getting to tire them out? They will be sleeping 18 or 20 hours a day. Or more.
Well said . Exactly what I was thinking.

rat dog: Have you seen the parents work?
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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by cjhills » Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:11 pm

Exactly what I was thinking also. Puppies at 4 weeks are barely functional. they have only had their eyes open for a few days and are just starting to eat solid food and get up on their legs. They change dramatically every day from 4 weeks on. It is generally fairly easy for the breeder to pick the most dominate one by then. But for the buyer it is probably not a good time. I want them to wait until at least six weeks to pick. I can pretty well match up the buyer with the puppy by then. It always amazes me how good some people are at picking puppies.
Unless you have a very strong color, don't pick by color.''...........Cj

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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by BigTub » Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:17 pm

I have a couple breeders say to let the puppy pick you. It really worked for me. Did one of the puppies pick you?
Last edited by BigTub on Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RatDog
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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by RatDog » Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:20 pm

My understanding is that it’s a total crapshoot. You pick the parents and then which puppy is way less important if it matters at all, at least that’s what Delmar Smith believed. Assuming that’s the truth it’s harmless to try and improve your guess right?

I asked to stop by and check them out and was pestering the guy about what they are like so it’s not like he was feeding me unsolicited bs. Sounds like 4 weeks is too early to be able to tell anything. It’s pretty far away but I’ll try and go over there one more time before I have to pick at 8 weeks.

Maybe it’s all in my head and a bunch of nonsense but I feel like from watching the videos he has sent over and over, and spending time with them in person a bit I believe I have some sense of their different personalities.

I didn’t go see the parents work. I’m tempted to say I don’t have time but the truth is that I get pretty obsessive about fly fishing this time of year and therefore didn’t have time Image

Here’s a few of the good ones from this year so far:

[IMG]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202208 ... 45c932.jpg[/IMG]
Image
Image


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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by Mosby » Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:35 pm

BigTub wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:17 pm
I have a couple breeders say to let the puppy pick you. I really worked for me. Did one of the puppies pick you?
I have a female GSP that picked me. I was looking for a started male and after a few dogs, he put out a young 10 month old femaie to work. I was standing in the background watching the dogs work and she was the only one that noticed me. She ran past the trainer and started to bring the quail she retrieved over to me and wrapped her body around my leg after she gave me the bird. I looked down at her face looking up at me and that was it. She knew a sucker when she saw one.

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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by Willie T » Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:08 pm

Pick the right litter and your odds go up.
Pick a repeat breeding of a proven litter and your odds go up further.
Keep the puppy’s nose in the bushes and birds and your odds continue to go get better.

Ive tried all kinds of stuff to pick them and never got a dud. The last two, I told the breeder what I like and let them pick me a good one.

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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by Sharon » Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:30 pm

Well said Willie.
In many ways it is a crap shoot picking pups imo .
The last litter a friend and I made(well the dogs made :) out of A.F. 4xCH Shady Hills Billy and Uplanders Contessa, had all 7 pups sold before they were born.
When a guy came to pick up the last pup he had paid for, only the runt was left.
He didn't want it so I kept it and his money was returned.
That little girl did great - won several American Field trials and was a fine dog to take hunting.
You just never know for sure.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by RyanDoolittle » Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:09 pm

Pick based on color. That's about the only sure thing you have at this age.

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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:17 am

I was very, very, successful in picking winning field trial pups for clients. The older the pup is when you take it, the better your chances are. Most breeders want you to take them at 8 weeks. At 10 weeks you can tell so much more. I used an involved process but for a hunter I like to do two simple things. Just sit in a puppy pen and get abused by them. The one that continually wants to be with you and not the other pups is showing a propensity to want to bond with people. That's important. Next, roll the ones you like on their backs and hold them there, not petting them, and time which one stays the longes without growling and biting. That shows how easy the pup may be to work with.

Hunters are different than field trailers. A hunter usually does not want a big going, willful, hard headed animal he will have to battle daily. Life is too short and these dogs are SUPPOSED to be fun and enjoyable to us. If every day is a battle of wills, there will be little enjoyment in your life.

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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by CDN_Cocker » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:43 am

gonehuntin' wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 6:17 am
Hunters are different than field trailers. A hunter usually does not want a big going, willful, hard headed animal he will have to battle daily. Life is too short and these dogs are SUPPOSED to be fun and enjoyable to us. If every day is a battle of wills, there will be little enjoyment in your life.
What an excellent piece of advice 👏 👌

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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by mask » Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:10 am

Gone hunting makes some good points. That war of wills mentioned is self induced in most cases. Start with a well bred pup. Teach it the basics as in come when called, don't ever weaken on the basics and YOUR WILL will be the order of the day. Be consistent, be firm when necessary,don't be afraid to ask for help, and be smarter than the dog. Pups are the best but you must be willing to put in the time.

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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by RatDog » Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:47 pm

[IMG]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202208 ... b9c596.jpg[/IMG]
Here she is. I think we’re gonna call her Maya. I tried a bunch of the stuff that was recommended and didn’t have much luck. When I got in the pen they just all mauled me which was nice but didn’t tell me much. She seemed like the most outgoing. When I got her on her own she didn’t hesitate to tear around sniffing and checking things out. She seemed to whimper the least so hoping she won’t be as vocal as the last dog I had which was a major pain living in a neighborhood. Was hard to tell but seemed as though she had the most interest in me out of the three. Fingers crossed she’s a good one.

I had to pick a week early since the folks in second are flying up from Denver during a period when I can’t be there. I take her home the 29th. Exciting times!


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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by Garrison » Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:57 am

Congrats on the pup, good times ahead!

Garrison

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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by RyanDoolittle » Wed Aug 24, 2022 9:48 pm

It always cracks me up when the breeder tells you first pick at 8 weeks then someone else gives some sort of a sob story and suddenly your forced to pick early.

Congrats on the puppy, I am sure you will be happy with her. Heck let's be honest, they could be the worst dog in the world, in our eyes it's our dog and they are the best dog ever.

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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by RayGubernat » Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:48 am

For anyone who is looking to evaluate puppies there is a technique and a process that can be quite helpful.. It is called the Volhard Puppy something or other, but it is a multi faceted evaluation of a puppy's responses to situations. Interestingly, Gonehuntin's evaluations are basically two of the evaluative techniques.

I honestly only use about four of the techniques to evaluate pups, but I do find that their responses do correlate with their personalities. It is worth reading, I think, if for no other reason than to get you thinking about what kind of personality you actually want in your next dog.

As a field trialer, I am looking for a much bolder, more independent individual than the typical hunter,but I still need a dog that wants to hunt with me and for me. Usually that means I am looking at different litters than a typical hunter, but I also hunt the same dogs I trial with, so that enters into it as well.

If you find the right litter, there will be a range of personalities in the pups, so...once you have the genetics you want, pick the pup that shows you what you want to see.

RayG

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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by RayGubernat » Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:56 am

RyanDoolittle wrote:
Wed Aug 24, 2022 9:48 pm
It always cracks me up when the breeder tells you first pick at 8 weeks then someone else gives some sort of a sob story and suddenly your forced to pick early.
If a breeder agreed to give me first pick at 8 weeks and then reneged on that agreement, I would be very temped to just walk away. I have actually never had that happen and I have had first pick several times and first female pick a couple of times.

RayG

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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by RatDog » Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:19 pm

I work at a mine so I am gone for five days and and then home for five days. It wasn’t that he made me pick early it was that I couldn’t be there on the exact 8 week mark and the second place folks will be. I tend to be pretty easy going about stuff like that not gonna make a stink about a week when I’m not sure any of this matters anyway.

I’m no expert but it makes logical sense to me that in general the larger the sample size the better your data is going to be. Seems to me your best option is to learn what you can from the breeder since he has been able to spend an extended amount of time with the pups. Any kind of test depends on the dogs mood on a given day so unless you were able to do it several times and get an average I have a hard time believing it’s ability to reliably predict future behavior.

Breeder said one of the gals is pretty timid and doesn’t like loud noises or when the neighbor kids came around. I seemed to be able to confirm this judgement when she didn’t want to leave the pen and balked at crossing the threshold. He said one of the other ones was very high energy and very bitey. This pretty much ruled out two out of three. The third one seemed confident and comfortable being out on her own as well as being pretty friendly. Boom! Pick made


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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by Sharon » Thu Aug 25, 2022 7:56 pm

You've done all that is possible to pick a good pup. Enjoy your pup.
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Re: Looking at puppies

Post by RatDog » Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:14 pm

Sharon wrote:You've done all that is possible to pick a good pup. Enjoy your pup.
Thanks Sharon! I sure will. I’m not gonna lie I’m getting a bit nervous but mostly just excited. I re-read Delmar and Ronnie Smith’s books and am gonna dig up and watch the dvd’s again.

There is a trainer I really like who has been very nice about answering lots of questions. I am going to drive out to his house for a day, even though he lives in the middle of freaking nowhere like 4 hours away. He’s going to go over some stuff with me and give me homework to work on with the dog. It’ll be a fun project to work on!

So psyched to introduce her to my boys. They are 8 and 10. I think they’re going to be old enough to have some fun with her!


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