Am I being too hard? Not hard enough?

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Pluffmud
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Am I being too hard? Not hard enough?

Post by Pluffmud » Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:36 pm

I want my puppy to have fun with everything, as much as possible. That being said, I've said "no" more in the past 2 months more than the past 32 years of my short life. My 4 month old Boykin puppy has a habit or pulling down the towel from the oven handle. She does this, Im almost positive, out of spite. When she doesn't get her way she will do this to grab attention, as she doesn't want to play or chew on it, she simply pulls it down and runs, and then proceeds to bark and growl. I've popped her on the nose like I do when she bites and have said no, but that effect doesn't work anymore. She did it again tonight twice, and the second time I popped her on the rear end, put her on her back, stared her in the eyes and yelled NO a few times to her face. I held her there in the ground for about 30 seconds. That definitely killed whatever buzz she had. I'm not sure if that was the right thing to do or not. I don't want to have to do that, and maybe it's just a puppy thing? I don't know. That's why I'm asking. I don't want a puppy that grows into a dog afraid of my hand from nose pops or loud voices... What is the right thing to do to let my puppy know that no means no?

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CDN_Cocker
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Re: Am I being too hard? Not hard enough?

Post by CDN_Cocker » Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:22 am

Stop hanging the towel on the oven handle till she's older....

Pluffmud
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Re: Am I being too hard? Not hard enough?

Post by Pluffmud » Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:31 pm

The towel at the root really isn't the issue, if it's not the towel it will be something else I'm sure. I'd just like to hear from experienced the proper way to address a puppy acting out.

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CDN_Cocker
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Re: Am I being too hard? Not hard enough?

Post by CDN_Cocker » Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:50 pm

You're absolutely right. But sometimes the best solution is the easiest one. It's just a phase.

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gonehuntin'
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Re: Am I being too hard? Not hard enough?

Post by gonehuntin' » Wed Aug 31, 2022 4:54 pm

I have personally always believed in curing a problem and not going around it. That is what separated a professional from an amateur. I, personally, think you did the correct thing. The word NO! should strike terror into the heart of every dog.

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Re: Am I being too hard? Not hard enough?

Post by Steve007 » Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:15 pm

CDN_Cocker wrote:
Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:22 am
Stop hanging the towel on the oven handle till she's older....
This is good advice. You just need to "puppy proof" your house until your dog is a little older. She will also be teething from now until probably six months, so that's another reason to stop a habit before it starts.

I once purchased an adult Gordon Setter who was fine in the house until the day she chewed up a belt of mine. It was loose in my pair of trousers and hanging down from the chair, so perhaps it was tempting. I cleaned up, bought a new belt and didn't think much about it. Two days later, she actively took the belt out of a pair of trousers that was laying out and ate it as well.

I mentioned it to the lady from whom I had purchased her, and said, "But don't worry. I'm not just a bird hunter. I'm an obedience guy. And I know how to take care of this."

Rather hesitantly in a worried manner, she asked "what are you going to do?'

Replied I, "I'm going to put the belts away!"

Solved the problem.

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Re: Am I being too hard? Not hard enough?

Post by shags » Thu Sep 01, 2022 5:24 am

Sounds to me like you let your frustration get the better of you, and you lost your cool. Not a good thing for someone who aspires (I assume) to be training a bird dog.
Just put your towel up for a month or two and let the pup grow up a little. Save the severe corrections, or in this case, punishment, for serious dog crimes that put people or other dogs in danger.
Or do you intend to follow the dog around all day so you can make timely corrections and "strike terror" for typical puppy mischief? That's gonna get old and will take the fun out of having a pup around.
Just move the towel for now.

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Re: Am I being too hard? Not hard enough?

Post by slistoe » Thu Sep 01, 2022 7:47 am

By 4 mos old my puppies understand that "no" means "NO". They don't learn that with constant nagging. If you are repeating the command you are nagging.

That being said - puppies are going to run around with things, chew on things and be a terror at times. What they need is some things that they are allowed to tear around with. The biggest problem I see with this is too many toys - if the dog has 10 toys and 6 "forbidden fruit" they will never learn to differentiate. You need to have just enough toys that you can find one quickly when you need one. The pup gets something they are not allowed to have and a quick "no" and immediate replacement with an object they are allowed. It will take some time but you will get to the point that when they want to play they will seek out a play toy and not the nearest object at hand.

Til you have properly conditioned the "no" command and have established play objects it may be advisable to put up the towel for awhile to avoid what has become a fun game.

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Re: Am I being too hard? Not hard enough?

Post by cjhills » Thu Sep 01, 2022 7:50 am

I am in the back off a little camp.
I do not want anything to strike terror in my young puppy's heart. Give him a chance to learn that some things are not allowed. Learning a little every day is much better than one big, scary lesson. Just living with you every day, if you are consistent in your training, will teach him where he stands in your pack. Once he learns that everything is easy.
I have a four month old mini Daschundt, who thinks she is queen of the world, with very little harsh treatment she learns her place in or world......Cj

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Am I being too hard? Not hard enough?

Post by RatDog » Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:35 am

I would seriously chill out. You’re anthropomorphizing the behavior of a very young animal. It’s not doing anything to spite you it’s simply doing what puppies do, mess around with stuff that looks interesting. Just puppy proof the house or have a designated zone and fence it off. I have a very young dog and we fenced off the dining room and put down some old carpet remnant so it’s not slippery. It’s got toys, bully sticks and stuff all over the place and that’s her zone.

I would save the showdown for a time where you know the dog understands what it’s supposed to do/not and does/doesn’t do it anyway. That’s a direct challenge to your authority and can not be abided. This doesn’t sound like that kind of situation.


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Re: Am I being too hard? Not hard enough?

Post by Steve007 » Fri Sep 02, 2022 5:16 pm

Good post by RatDog. Based on the choices given in the thread title, I am solidly on the "too hard" side of the street. This is a situation with a house dog, and not everyone here -- despite bird-dog experience --has significant credentials in that area.

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Re: Am I being too hard? Not hard enough?

Post by gonehuntin' » Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:51 am

Perhaps when I used the word "terror" it was misunderstood. I should have said fear and there is a difference. You cannot have a well trained dog without that dog having some fear. Now, before you get all offended and yowl about that, think about it. That dog comes when called initially, from the fear of not doing so. He whoa's out of fear. He delivers a bird out of fear. It's not a bone chilling, paralyzing fear, it's a "healthy apprehension". I teach this from about 12 weeks on. It's taught firmly and consistently. That's the biggest mistake people make raising a pup in the house: THERE IS NO CONSISTENCY. Hence, it takes a lot longer to train the pup because the pup never knows when a command will be enforced and when it will not. Consistency is the basis of all successful dog training.

You can never stress the importance of the word NO! From the time our dog is a puppy, the word NO! may be THE most important word that animal will ever learn. I enforce it from about 12 weeks on an biting is always a big NO! whether in play or not. You train all dogs through temptation if you really think about it and a pup is no different. From the time they're pups you introduce temptations then cure them. Now, you won't have to introduce many temptations, the whole house and all in it is a temptation. I never change my lifestyle to fit the dog, he has to adopt to mine. It's a lot of work but the end result is worth it. Later in like that word NO! will stop the chase of flushed birds, eating unwanted things, harassing unwanted or dangerous animals, ranging to far, not giving up a bird, and on and on. It just may be THE most important thing the pup will ever learn. NO! and HERE! There will be no more important commands to teach the pup than those two.

I believe in raising all pups in the house. Every field trial dog' i've ever owned was raised in the house. At one time, there was NO Field Champion Lab that had not been raised in the house at least in this formative months. Yup. It's a lot of work. It's worth it.

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Re: Am I being too hard? Not hard enough?

Post by slistoe » Sat Sep 03, 2022 8:35 am

Excellent post gonehuntin.

Yes, houses should be "puppy proofed". Yes, we must be respectful of the fact that puppies will get into mischief. But none of that is obedience training or house dog training in any way, shape or form and I find it disingenuous to imply otherwise.

The greatest disservice to the dog world in general - house dog, bird dog, obedience dog, whatever dog, is this concept that "they will grow out of it" as an excuse for not teaching a dog manners. Dogs do not grow out of bad behaviors, they are taught out of bad behaviors.

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Re: Am I being too hard? Not hard enough?

Post by cjhills » Sat Sep 03, 2022 10:56 am

I have to disagree about the dog doing everything out of fear.
I start my puppies all with crate training with a treat. In 2 or 3 times they know going in the kennel means treat. It becomes a conditioned response when the "kennel" command is given. There is no intimidation involved.
My dogs will all bring whatever they find in the field to me. It is because that is what they are bred to do. Some of the things they bring, I could do quite nicely without. But they are usually pleased with themselves.
To me it is all about repetition and response.
None of my kennel dogs know what No means..........Cj

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Re: Am I being too hard? Not hard enough?

Post by Sharon » Sat Sep 03, 2022 11:43 am

Exactly.
It is all about repetition and a consistent response, which is why I tell folks that when you call the pup and it doesn't come, get up and get him/her every time.
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