Alpha 300

[dsmith84]

I just purchased the alpha 300 to use on my WPG. I’ve used the tri-tronics collars for years and used the tone to recall the dogs, especially when hunting in windy situations. With the 300 there are three buttons, tone, vibration and stimulation. I still think I’d use the tone for recall but I’ve seen where some use it for other purposes including using it similarly to a clicker. So I’m wondering what others do and what is the purpose of vibration, a warning before stimulation? Appreciate any and all suggestions. Thanks Dan

[RayGubernat]

Dan -

Can't answer for others but I use the vibrate feature in training for the most part. I have the collar on the dog's flank with the prongs situated on the top of the back(at least initially...it does tend to slip). I do most of my bird training with remote release launchers, so I can control the situation. When the dog has established point, I will reinforce the whoa command verbally as I approach and move to flush. At the same time as I issue a verbal caution, I hit the vibrate stim momentarily. Even a soft dog should not react negatively to the vibrate stim, but it is a "reminder". As training progresses, I stop issuing verbal cautions or commands when the dog is standing, but instead, tap the vibrate every so often while I am flushing. Obviously if the dog moves, I will cease flushing, go to the dog and physically re-set the dog and stroke and style it back up before resuming the flushing attempt.

When hunting, the collar will be on the dog's neck. I do not use a flank collar when hunting because the flank area is VERY sensitive and the possibility of overstimulating a sensitive dog with electrical stim is very real. I will use the vibrate feature once when the dog is standing as I approach. Usually that is all that is needed. If the dog moves... I will issue a momentary e-stim, at a low setting, and go and re-set the dog before resuming the flush attempt. If the dog moves again, I will collar the dog away and heel it out of the area. I find taking a dog away from hunting is a far more effective disciplinary measure than anything else I can do. If I have another dog in the truck, I will swap them out and let the first dog think about it for a while. If I only have one dog...after the dog has "cooled its heels" for ten or fifteen minutes, I will usually resume the hunt but make the dog mind me when I release it to hunt.

Others may have additional or different applications. Hope this is of use to you.

RayG

[Garrison]

I personally only use stimulation on my dogs, I don’t see any benefit of the tone or vibration function if the collar is set properly and the dog is collar conditioned. At this point my dogs know what is expected of them, so very rarely do I have to use stimulation for much, in fact rarely at all. My collar can lock in two settings for each dog, a low and boosted setting. Low acts as a cue and boosted is set for enforcement…..deer chase, rabbit, road crossing etc. The low setting is initially incrementally adjusted up for each dog to a setting where it elicits no visible physical reaction, but the dog knows it has been applied. If a collar is placed on the flank it is turned down to a lower setting and cues the dog to stand. Just a very soft muscle twitch for communication. Many come to this with a mindset formed by “shock collars” of the past, and feel tone or vibrate is some how a more gentle approach, I rather not try to flip in between settings and have the stimulation I need at my fingertips, for a timely cue or correction. I have had old tri-tronics collars that had too large a jump between settings and could have benefited from vibrate. The modern collars with 100 plus settings allow me to dial in the stimulation to exactly where the dog needs it.

That said, I have no personal experience of the Alpha and it’s stimulation levels, and I am of the school of thought that a dog should be allowed to work to the full length of its natural range and I want them to go out and seek likely cover in the direction I am heading. I have no desire to steer a dog around a field or through cover with commands, verbal or electronic. I understand some want more control over the animal and to work in a different fashion than I do, and may need to rely on the collar more to shape their range/pattern.

Garrison

[Sharon]

Welcome to the forum Dan. As you can see, you will get exceptionally experienced help here.

[dsmith84]

Yes and thank you. I’ve been here before, just couldn’t remember my password so created a new account. Have to blame old age I guess.

Still not sure about usage and probably should have gone to a different model but I really was interested in the gps tracking. We live in northwest Montana and have some acreage so the dogs are free to run, for the most part but a couple of years ago two of the males decided to go for an excursion. We found them about six miles from home after being out all night, which living where we live with the wolves and mountain lions was a nightmare for us, hence the gps tracking.
Another reason was some of areas we hunt the vegetation is so tall you lose track of the dogs and even though they are trained to a whistle and tone, if they were on point you never knew so if I called them I didn’t know if they were responding or just ignoring me as griffons sometimes have a tendency to do.

Hopefully folks will continue to chime in and I may figure things out. Thanks again.

[RyanDoolittle]

I live on the prairies so am in the same wind situation as you.

I like tone for recall, alot of times the dogs can't hear me but they hear the tone.

I know guys that use the tone for whoa as well. I couldn't imagine having to stop my dog at 1000 yards then having to walk out there to let the dog loose.

Call me crazy

[dsmith84]

We’ve had times when the dogs can’t even hear the whistle the wind is blowing so hard, at least I say that’s why they didn’t respond. I’m thinking I’ll continue to use the tone for recall but still undecided about the vibration. I hardly ever have to use the stimulation but there are always those days, especially with new dogs and critters you don’t want them messing with.

I have to agree with you on the 1000 or even 100 yard walk to release the dog because they’ve been trained to whoa until touched, but to each his own.

[cjhills]

My problem with using the stim or tone for recall, is that the dog gets no sense of direction. Generally, the dog knows where you are. Sometimes they lose track of you.
I like a horn in big country. If I need a recall. Most l don't recall.......Cj

[dsmith84]

That has always been my concern. Are the dogs responding, can they respond and can they figure out where I’m calling from, especially here in the woods. One of the main reasons I went with the 300 was for the gps. Supposedly, it refreshes fast enough that I can see if, and when, the dogs respond and I gives me the ability to get to the dogs if there is trouble.

[Chemist]

I run an Alpha 100.

I use the tone for recall. My dogs know where I am 99% of the time and will come back to me. On occasion I make a turn that they did not pick up and I can watch them on the GPS go to my last location. As others have pointed out, tone recall is nice in windy conditions where a dog may not be able to hear anything not attached to them. For this one of four things happen depending on conditions. I wait for them to search for me. I blow a whistle. I walk back to them, or I fire my shotgun in a safe direction and they come running to find the downed bird.

I use vibrate periodically during training but only occasionally when hunting. It has the meaning of a different command for us. It for when I want to get a dogs attention but don't want them to have the impression they did something wrong. Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems as though my dogs have learned that the vibration means give me your attention and stimulation at any level means you did that wrong. For example when teaching my dog to heal, I had my three buttons set to vibrate, low, and high stimulation. If we are walking and he is still by my side and still keeping pace but I can see his focus has shifted to something else because he is turning his head sideways but is still keeping pace, vibrate will bring his attention back to me. If he steps so that he is no longer by my side he gets low stimulation and if he breaks he gets hit with higher stimulation.

When hunting I will use vibrate when I want a dogs attention from a distance but don't want to fully recall them. This is generally when I am making a 90 degree turn and don't feel the need to bring them all the way in.

[dsmith84]

That makes sense to me. Will have to start working on that with them. Thanks

[tops911]

I use vibrate the same as a whistle. I started doing that when my old dog got hard of hearing. She struggled hearing the whistle. I would have to nick her to get her attention, I still feel bad for doing that, she used to look at me like "what did I do wrong". As a person who wears hearing aids I know that certain tones can't be heard so that's why I went to vibrate for all my dogs.

[OKhunter]

I just purchased the alpha 300 to use on my WPG. I’ve used the tri-tronics collars for years and used the tone to recall the dogs, especially when hunting in windy situations. With the 300 there are three buttons, tone, vibration and stimulation. I still think I’d use the tone for recall but I’ve seen where some use it for other purposes including using it similarly to a clicker. So I’m wondering what others do and what is the purpose of vibration, a warning before stimulation? Appreciate any and all suggestions. Thanks Dan

FYI, all 3 of the buttons can be programmed for different modes. I normally set one to tone, one low stimulation, and one higher stimulation when running one dog. When running both my dogs, I have the three buttons set to control both dogs.

[gonehuntin']

Keep it simple. Stimulation, or tone for recall or correcting range. I never use vibration. I believe, if you're going to correct a dog, correct it. If you warn it once, you'll have to warn it twice next time. The tone feature is a pheasant hunters best friend. You can hunt covers in total silence with a trained dog. I love it.

To clarify, if I want to give the dog a slight correction, I'll use the first button programed to one or two. If it's a serious infraction or he has made the mistake twice, the second button is used on three. The only time I'll go higher than that is for a real problem like deer chasing.

The third button is programed for tone only. My favorite button.

[Mundo]

I Knick the dog 2 to get there attention the watch the screen a send a tone everytime the are shown closer to me. I vac consistently recall dogs out of site at a range up to 1000 yds. Usually I’m recalling a dog that has gotten out 50 yds or so. It is pretty easy with the 3 button panel of programmable buttons on 200 and 300. A lot of people don’t realize the tone plays after stimulation Dogs come to understand things are on the right track when they hear it.

[tops911]

I use vibrate most of the time now. I train dogs to the whistle and my first dog went deaf and I had no way to communicate with her. So now all dogs get both whistle and vibrate trined. Equal number of vibrates to correspond with the whistle blasts, 4 whistle/ 4 vibrate means come all the way in; 2 whistle blasts/2 vibrates means look at me. I find that I really like the quiet hunting especially on pheasants.

[CDN_Cocker]

I used to only use stimulation but have since added conditioning the dogs to recall on vibration. I do this so that the dog interprets it as a cue instead of a correction. I find being able to recall the dogs with the vibrate function is extremely useful when you're in thick cover and aren't sure where they are/ what they're doing and you are questioning if they can heard your whistle. So you want them to check in without correcting them when they may be just doing what they're supposed to be doing... that's how I see it anyways. I don't really use vibrate for anything else, just recall. The vibrate itself is the command.