Dog that bolts

hoffmann35 · Post by **hoffmann35** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:03 pm

My GSP has a knack for squeezing by me when someone is at the door. Once he gets out he bolts and heads for the hills so to speak. I usually catch up to him when he runs into an alley or runs around the neighboors kennel. Once outside he won't respond to anything I say or the whistle. It turns into a game for him and I know it is my fault for chasing after him but cars go by frequently and I don't want him to get hit. In any training situation he responds and complies to every command the first time I give it, but off leash he is a whole different animal in the neighboorhood. Hunting he does fine and listens. Is this just a puppy thing that he will grow out of, or is there anything else I can do to curb this behavior? Sorry for the length, just getting frustrated.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:29 pm

Ideal place to use the e-collar. I have had the same experience with young dogs and they know you can't catch them so it becomes a game.

Ezzy

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:43 pm

Do you have an e-collar to use on the dog?

smilinicon · Post by **smilinicon** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:07 pm

I too see this when out in the field. She'll be fine and listening and then she just take off for a bit. I can't enforce, so I wait it out and she comes in for a clenched toothed "good dog". She knows the command, but chooses not to 'hear' it. I've never been an E-collar person, but it seems as this might be a good use for it.

Margaret · Post by **Margaret** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:05 pm

When visitors come or the door is to be opened clip leash to collar.

For other pups that won't come in the field; when pup is coming in your direction call pup to you and give a big pat and side rub and praise with happy tone of voice, then deliberately send out. Do this now and then not too often. Also don't talk, watch dog and show a lot of keen interest in anything the pup is sniffing at, but little talk. Wow is a good word to use, it does get your enthusiasm across.

This will help.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:08 pm

The other answer for you guys is to de-bolt the dog using a slingshot and marbles or a BB gun. This a more dangerous proceedure than the e-collar if you're not versed in it, but it works as well. Somehow, those dogs have got to learn than even without a leash, you can enforce the commands you give. This is why the e-collar only becomes more and more popular; it's safer and far more humane. I've done it for many years both ways and I'll take the collar.

Don · Post by **Don** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:43 pm

I think the problem start's befor the dog bolt's. When you go to the door, you already know what's going to happen, so does the dog. Why are you letting it go that far? You have a basic obedience problem that need's dealing with.

You said that: "in training situtation,,,,,,,,,,,,but off the leash,,,,,,,,". I take it your talking about obedience training? This sound's like obedience training is confined to one particular training area and when you leave the area you no longer enforce the thing's you've been training.

Each step in training must be completed befor moving on. You sound like you moved well beyond the "here" command befor he was trained to come when called. What are you going to do when he mature's and decide's to widen up, perhap's well beyond what you want? How old is this pup?

Don't let him go to the door with you in the first place! If your going out with him, don't let him out the door unless he's leashed. Your supposed to be the boss, be the boss.

3forme · Post by **3forme** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:44 pm

I would be training this dog that he does NOT go through any doorway in the house w/o your permission this is something you should work on 2x a day, you can start by not letting him just come out of his crate or kennel until told so. Also if you can't control your dog in the field he should not be allowed freedom until you can, you should be teaching WOAH as it is by far the most important command, if you can teach your dog to stop and stay no matter where he is you are distance etc you can then walk to the dog if need be to control the situation. I love how the collar people chime in, he doesnt need a collar for this and I can see how easy it would be for someone to just strap one on the dog and nail em :roll: if he just got the basic obedience done and kept the 3 d's in mind. Distance,Difficulty,Duration I think alot of trainers forget about the 3 d's and set there dogs up for failure because they haven't actually trained the dog for all the situations it would encounter.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:07 pm

3forme,

I won't critize your methods since you were so considerate of mine. Seems like another example of people doing it different ways and getting the job done. I always like to listen to other methods and learn from them too.

Ezzy

3forme · Post by **3forme** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:33 pm

ezzy333 wrote:3forme,

I won't critize your methods since you were so considerate of mine. Seems like another example of people doing it different ways and getting the job done. I always like to listen to other methods and learn from them too.

Ezzy

Ok I'll bite Ezzy do you really believe this dog has been properly taught the HERE command? If your answer is no which it should be then aren't you breaking the cardinal rule that you don't teach with the collar but use it as reinforcement? I am more than open to other methods and know quite well there is more than two ways to skin a cat, been around the block a few times

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:20 pm

3forme,

I can't think of a pup that has been kept in the house for over a month that doesn't know what come means. That doesn't mean he does it though if it isn't enforced. I think what you suggested was excellent as far as teachihg him to stay till he is told he can go out. My suggestion was to correct the refusual to come when called. If he doesn't get out that solves this particular problem but if he wants to ignore come he will do it later anyway so I would suggest stopping that right now and the easiest way to do it is with the collar. Remember the collar is nothing more than a long CC and that is what's needed at this juncture. Just changes his mindset and then you can get along with other training.

Ezzy

hubweims · Post by **hubweims** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:37 pm

I think that everyone has given great advice on this. I will have to side with Don the most though. If this is a continued problem that you are dealing with, why even let the situation progress? You should have been nipping this in the bud the first time it happened. This goes to back to the old quote, "insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results." Not saying that you are insane, but what you are doing is not working. I would start with the leash though. I am sure when you hear someone at the door they will understand if you talk to them through the door and tell them just a minute. After you teach him what is expected when a visitor comes with the leash, then I would look at enforcing with the collar. He's been training you, and by bolting he is simply playing ya'lls version of chase. He doesn't neccessarily know he doing wrong. It is just a way to get out and have you come get him. I wouldn't use the e-collar until I was sure he knew what was expected of him though. If you hit him with it and he doesn't understand the correction or the collar, then you may make him nervous everytime you want him to outside with you.

schultz's honor · Post by **schultz's honor** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:03 am

gonehuntin' wrote:The other answer for you guys is to de-bolt the dog using a slingshot and marbles or a BB gun. This a more dangerous proceedure than the e-collar if you're not versed in it, but it works as well. Somehow, those dogs have got to learn than even without a leash, you can enforce the commands you give. This is why the e-collar only becomes more and more popular; it's safer and far more humane. I've done it for many years both ways and I'll take the collar.

gonehuntin,
"you'll shoot your eye out"

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:19 am

And thus the popularity of the collar.

hoffmann35 · Post by **hoffmann35** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:08 am

First this dog is the most hard headed dog I have owned. I am in the middle of whoa and here training, overlapping the two. All obedience is done on the CC. I do not have a fenced yard. He is a male and 8 months old with a lot of leg in him. He is collar conditioned. I don't let him near the door when someone is at it. He pushed open the pantry door to get out past me. I was so involved in the conversation I was having that I didn't notice he was going till he was already past me. He doesn't acknowledge that I am alive when he gets out. Seems like two things, not enough obedience to this point and he doesn't know the boundaries. I think everyone knows how dogs can get out, this is only the second time this has happened since we got him. First time I chalked it up to puppy wanting to see outside the yard.

Okay, methods with the ecollar? In obedience, where is the benchmark before I even attepmt an off leash here command in the backyard?

hoffmann35 · Post by **hoffmann35** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:09 am

Oh, thanks for the replies so far! Forgot to add that in above post.

bondoron · Post by **bondoron** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:51 am

I think all pups think it is fun to bolt out the door. That's why I start training this at an early age. First thing I do is start leash training at the door. The dog is not allowed to go through the door without the ok command. Also the dog is not allowed to be the first out. The dog must ALWAYS go after I am out the door. However just because I am out the dog still isn't allowed to go without ok. I do all leash training with a pinch collar. Once the dog is collar conditioned we do it with the e-collar. I have a one year old now that will stand patient for me now. The other day she walked half out the door and stopped and looked at me like oh crap. Just told her in the house, she walked in turned around and waited. It's just like any other training lots of reps. You'll get your pup there eventually.

Don · Post by **Don** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:57 am

Only the second time? Well then it's just an indication of a problem. I'd guess he's growing up mentally and testing his boundry's. I'd put him on a leash and take him to the door with me. I might use the electric collar at 8 mos but I'd be sure and set every thing up to get the situtation I want.

Welcome to the wonderful world of puppies. Carefull tho as he might not be as hard headed as you think. A grown up body on the outside doesn't mean a grown up mind inside. That's the big reason I like to delay field work for the first year. I let them run and discover whatever they wish the first year but I don't switch on their light with planted bird's. If you have already done that with this dog, he probally want's to go find them but from where he's going when loose, he don't know where to look. He's being driven by his gene's.

You might also benifit by running him more but not where he'll find wild bird's. And if your planting bird's for him now, I'd quit. What you need to do is move back to square one and get it right.

Hey gonehuntin, I tried that slingshot and marble trick. Probally would have worked but I'd have needed to launch a handgrenade! As for shooting them in the eye, why would you shoot a marble at a dog comming at you? I'd be more worried about hitting hin in the nads and ruining the breeding possibilities of the world's next great stud dog!

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:45 am

Why bother with an e-collar? Let the door do the teaching.

Dogs cannot go through a closed door. So if pup is goign to try and dart past you close the door. If pup is in the way of the door closing to bad for pup. Pup will figure out that he had better wait till he is told its alright ot go past or that door will close on him. Do this with the crate, your front door, your back slider, any door will do. Get your timing right or pup will make it out the door unscathed. When you shut the door it has to close quickly.

Set up a tempting situation. That is why they call it training

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:48 pm

If he is collar conditioned, it's easy. Take away all of his safe havens. He does nothing without your permission. Challenge the dog. Put the collar on him in the house. Call him to you. Any time he doesn't immediately respond, nick him on whatever intensity makes him pay attention and call him unitl he comes, nicking him on each refusal. Walk towards an INSIDE door and open it, saying nothing. Let him barge through then command "HERE" and nail him with the collar until he comes to your side. Repeat inside until he is flawless. Now, pup on leash, go outside and come inside. Open the door, say nothing, and when he barges in nick him again saying "here" until he comes to your side. Now go inside, and open the door going outside. Same program. If he dares barge through, command "here" and nick him repeatidly until he comes. He MUST be on lead through all of this. Try the car now or any other place he considers a safe haven including his kennel. When he is absolutely perfect on this, take off the lead, start all over, and do everything again. This is a proceedure called "Debolting". In all initial phases he must be on lead because if he once finds he can outrun the collar off lead, you'll have to start all over. Only when he is 100% perfect does the lead or cc come off.

hoffmann35 · Post by **hoffmann35** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:57 am

Thanks for the advice guys. I've tried bondoron's suggestion so far with a pinch collar. Pup is doing well with it so far, no bolts and I leave the door open as a tease and he won't sucker into it. Thanks a bunch.

Joe

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:09 am

Don wrote: Hey gonehuntin, I tried that slingshot and marble trick. Probally would have worked but I'd have needed to launch a handgrenade! As for shooting them in the eye, why would you shoot a marble at a dog comming at you? I'd be more worried about hitting hin in the nads and ruining the breeding possibilities of the world's next great stud dog!

That comes into play when you're a crummy shot, or just as you let er' loose the dog comes to you. Handgrenade. That reminds me of the one. A preacher had called us up and asked If we could get some range control on his pointer. The kennel owner said yes and told him to bring the dog on out. The preacher got there and said "I'll show you what I mean". He opened his car door and turned the pointer loose. Before you could bat an eye he was 300 yards out and goin' strong. The owner yelled at me to get on the 3 wheeler and run that "bleep" down. I cranked her up and by the time I got to where the dog was, he was 600 yards the other way. We finally caught him and I brought him back. The preacher said "See, that's what I mean. All I want to do is shoot a few quail over this dog." The kennel owner looked at him, the while twirling his handlebar mustache, and replied "Preacher, you wanna shoot birds over that dog, you're gonna have to ride Man Of War and carry a 30.06!". We eventually did break him but that Preacher did a mite more cursin' that he did blessin' that dog.

Don · Post by **Don** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:30 am

Funny you should mention that. I had a client call me and said he'd found an Elhew/Hooks Bounty Hunter dog in Nebraska that was 18mos old and he got it for $200 and only had to pay air freight. Had it shipped right to me. Turns out the guy paid about $2000 for the dog as a pup and everytime he turned it lose, he lost it. Then he bought a horse to run it down with and the horse couldn't catch the dog. So he got rid of it.

well I ended up with it and first time down he was gone in a flash. Bad new's for him, my horse I got at 11 yrs old and he was the 1990 Natl Ch heavy weight div endurance racer, they won the triple crown with him. This hourse could absolutely fly cross country. Well I stayed with him and that night called the owner and told him what happened. He show's up the next weekend and has a foxtrotter he bought from a big time pro in Arizona. He's quite sure I need to ride this horse to stay with the dog. I told him no, that Ben could do it but maybe he should ride the horse. He wanted to ride this new horse he got and the foxtrotter really needed to work. So I asked him if he really though it could keep up; sure. Right, sure! The horse had been winded and that dog was just gone! About 45 min later a couple guy's came by with "Ed" sitting between them in the front seat looking for his owner. They had found him about 5 mi down the road and knew guy's trained where we were

I got a handle on him and broke him out, easy dog to work with. Then I sent him home and the owner ignored everything he was told. Last I heard, he'd entered the dog in a trial over by Fossil somewhere and lost him again and told some guy that if he could catch it, he could have it. Wish I'd have been there! Boy did I like that dog! Wish I still had a picture of him. He was the most magnificent pile of lemon and white I ever saw.

Drahtsundbraats · Post by **Drahtsundbraats** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:14 pm

A great place to teach the "whoa" command which I don't use around game-only as an obedience command. I don't allow any dog to bolt through a door, out of a kennel, in or out of the truck, etc.---its always "whoa" (using the hand signal as well). By the time pups are 5-6 months old, they sit by the door and wait for the release. Now I know this sounds real controlling to some of you gundog guys, but I have never seen it hurt a dog's independence or search. It could save a dogs life though, if it keeps the dog from bolting out of the crate where there is traffic.

rnbiii · Post by **rnbiii** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:59 am

My first GSP, I got when he was older and had never had any training, was a bolter, but luckily we live in a well established neighborhood, not near busy streets. Several neighbors would comment "Man, that guy's fast." When he caught sight of an opening he was gone. It took a while, but with a lot of work and PATIENCE on my part (and his), he got the idea that he was not to leave the door without me going first and my permission. Your guy will come around.