What breed?

[OdieWon]

Okay, let's say I am ready to buy another dog. (I'm not). How do I determine which breed to get? So many of them do so well.

I don't even know where to start on breed selection.

[kninebirddog]

There is good one and bad ones in anyone ou may look at

But for me the Brittany is number 1

[12 Volt Man]

What do you want from a dog? What do you hunt? Will it be an inside or outside dog?

[Drahtsundbraats]

You have to ask yourself what you expect of a dog. There will probably be more than one breed that will do the work. Its not the breed that's the key-its the breeder. Remember that you hunt 3-4 months/year but you have to live with the dog the whole year long. So, a calm dog that is easy to live with is also a consideration. There are dogs in all breeds that have the "switch"-serious when you put a gun in your hand but able to throttle back at home. Serious breeders will check you out just as much you do them. Don't quibble about an extra couple hundred dollars. A good pup from a good breeder is worth the $1.50/month (12 yr old dog has lived 144 months!!).

Find the breeder - the breed is less important.

[OdieWon]

I want an inside dog. I want him/her to "switch" on when he sees the gun. I want him to be calm and collected in the house, but I don't want him to act like he's on valium if we're outside playing with the kids. I want him to be able to ride in the truck seat on occasion, and even sit in it while I go into the store without chewing the steering wheel off.

I'd like for pup to be a constant companion, every day, someone who's always happy to see me.

I work HVAC/R, and our busy season is really busy. I will work from 7AM until 9PM many days in the summer. So what time of the year is a consideration as well, because I assume that during crucial months pup will need more attention than at other times.

Sometimes I have On Call weekends, I'd like pup to be well behaved enough to be off lead, and attentive to my commands enough to be in and out of the service van, in different locations regularly.

I always thought it would be cool to have a dog that could do that.

As far as hunting ability, I'm not exactly Allan Quartermain, so I think if he has some natural instinct we'll be fine. We can learn to be better hunters together.

I guess I'd say that ease of training, and likelihood of the above mentioned qualities would be key.

I've always thought that Brittany's were IT. But the one I had was nuclear powered tornado/psychopath. I've known some that were much more controllable.

But I'm open to ALL breeds. Must be able to hunt upland game, and waterfowl optional. Must be good traveling partner, and indoor companion for entire family.

I may very possibly look for a started, or finished dog. I am in no way concerned about price. $1000 to $2000 is what I'm going to budget for said dog. OR I will buy pup, and seek to spend same cash in proffessional training for pup AND myself.

[kninebirddog]

The key with any dog is the day you bring that pup home and how you establish a foundation
many balitic missle start that way from thing people indirectly teach a pup to be from day one

here is an article i wrote for local mag here in AZ

Birddog Puppy Foundations
8 weeks - 4 months


By Arlette Hennessey

Getting off to a good start with your bird dog puppy starts the first day you bring your pup home. Even at this young age it is important to only reward desired behaviors. A reward can be a simple stroke down the back or any kind of attention. Treats for rewards can be fine for pups but I personally feel these are more for the human then the pup. For these early lessons you do not need to say anything. Your pup will learn much faster by leaving the words out until you have the desired responses and being silent also takes out human emotion.
It is also important for the owner to understand from the get go that a reward is not a release of command. Let’s say you have your dog standing still next to you and you reach down to stroke the dog down the back. This doesn't mean that your dog can leave that standing position they still must stand there...the reward…is a reward. It doesn't mean release.
Then it looks so cute as your little puppy runs up and jumps on you. This only works when they are very small and irresistible. It will not be so cute when your pup grows up. If you acknowledge this behavior it will only continue. It can lead to hyper behavior, annoying jumping and also a lack of respect for an alpha. You, the owner, must be alpha in your dog’s world for any training to be effective.
When your pup comes running and jumping up on you. Do not acknowledge this behavior. Simply push the pup off you with your foot in a gentle manner. Never physically hurt your pup. Do not make eye contact with your pup. If you do then you are giving the pup what it wants, your attention, and the behavior will be repeated. When and only when your pup has four feet on the floor, reach down and pick them up or pet them. This will also start to establish to your pup that when they stand quietly they will get rewarded with attention. This can lead to other desired results in future training.
When you do these little foundation sessions with your pup remember you need to make these sessions, short sweet and simple. If you get the desired action for even a brief second end the session, you can build from there. Always end on a good note.
Another exercise that you can do with young pups is to cradle them like a baby. When they struggle, hold the pup firmly not allowing them to get away. When the pup relaxes, relax your hold. Wait until the pup is relaxed before you put it down. This exercise it to help establish a pup being calm when you are handling them it is also to teach the pup to give in to restraint.
Biting and or nipping are undesired behaviors that should be nipped in the bud right at the start. This is the method that I like to use. When the pup starts to bite or nip I will take my 2 fingers and place them sideways in the mouth with my thumb under the jaw. I then place my other hand behind the head. This helps to brace the pup so they cannot harm themselves by pulling away. Hold this position till the pup stops struggling. As soon as the pup stops struggling to get your fingers out of the mouth, quickly say “release” and roll your fingers gently backwards to take them out.
This changes the rules of the pup’s game. I will then place my hand in front of the pup’s mouth; the pup should LICK your hand. This is a sign of accepting who is the alpha. If the pup should try and mouth your hand repeat the application. I have found that after a couple of applications this behavior ceases. And again I want to stress none of these actions are to ever harm or physically hurt the pup ever. The pup may whine and vocalize some discontent but never pain.
Sometimes your pup finds things that they are not supposed to have. Like your brand new Prada shoe! A big mistake is to punish the pup for having something in their mouth. This can create problems down the road for your retrieving. Best thing to do is calmly get your pup and pick them up and ask for the object from the pup by slowly rolling it back and down towards the back of the mouth. Replace the shoe with an item that they can have, preferably a hard puppy toy. No soft squeaky toys for birddog pups! This can also lead to undesired habits when it comes to birds in the future.
Crating or kenneling from day one will help with house breaking and other behavioral problems. When you put your pup in the crate do not reward yipping, crying scratching, clawing, barking or other undesired behavior. Only go to the kennel/crate once the pup is quiet and calm. When you take the pup out of the crate immediately carry the pup to the same place in the yard to eliminate. Be sure the pup eliminates before taking them back in. When in the house watch your pup closely. If it starts to sniff and circle around pick the pup up and take it back out. At first take the pup out every few hours. If you remain diligent from the start, house training your pup should only take a few weeks. Never use the crate for punishment the crate should always be the pup’s den and a place of safety.
After the pup is used to the collar I like to take about a 6-8 foot lead and let them run around the backyard dragging the lead. When the pup runs by I will simply step on the lead. As soon as the pup stops fighting the lead I will lift my foot off and let the pup run some more repeating the process after a little bit. This will start the pup to learn to give in to the lead and the collar.
To help a pup learn to be still and giving in to a form of restraint when the pup in front of you when they start to move take one hand under the chest and the other hand under the back legs and lift the pup up. When the pup is settles down and relaxes in your hands place the pup back down, when the pup moves, lift up. Do this until the pup stands still, even if you are successful for just a moment you can always build from there. Walk the pup around and the repeat one more time Always set your pup up for success. And keep the sessions fun.
Here is another game for dinnertime. Put the pup’s food on the edge of a counter or where you can easily hold on to the pups collar with one hand and reach the bowl with the other. Try not to pull on the collar while bringing down the bowl of food. Bring it down at a steady pace, not real slow and not real fast either. When the pup starts to pull forward, lift up the food. When the pup stops pulling, start to bring the bowl down again. You do not need to say a command. Your pup is learning that when they stand still the food comes down when they move the food goes away from them. The first time you get the bowl of food to the ground without the pup moving, even for a moment, say ok or tap on the head to release the pup quickly. Remember, you can always build up from there when you pup becomes consistent you can ask for a few more seconds. Keep things with in your pups’ attention span. And keep the sessions light short sweet and simple.
All these little sessions are to help a pup learn to stand quiet. Things like holding fast while being groomed or handled will transition to whoa training, being styled up and many other future foundations of formal training.
If you take the time to do these brief sessions with your pup, you will be laying a solid foundation. Pup will learn faster and be more responsive to training down the road. These exercises can teach them that learning and acceptance is nothing to fear. By teaching your pups’ role in the family from the start you will have a happier relationship with your companion hunting and or trial dog.
__________________________________________________________


for what ever you decide hope this help get you off to the right start to a more mannered companion hunter

[cesarike]

Sounds to me like a good Field Golden would be the answer.

Calm Breed that will turn it on in the field, good family pets that will do well inside and easy to train, most house break in a few days.

Can be used in both upland and waterfowl.

Just make sure that the dog comes from an established field lines, the show folk will swear up and down that their dogs can hunt, they can't.

[AceofSpades41]

Knine,

That's a very informative article that I believe would benefit everyone on here, Thanks

This is for the mod's and even Grant, Could we have a spot under training in which training processes and articles such as Knines could be stored for everyone to benefit from.

I know we have a lot of experienced people here Brenda (aka Snips) who I believe did an article on Force Fetching and there are a number of others who have also passed on a wide range of knowledge.

For me I usually cut and paste what I see here and create a Word document at home which I store these articles in a training guide if you will.

What good is Knowledge if we don't pass it on and use it......

[rnbiii]

Todd,

I have done the same thing with post/articles that I thought would be useful to have easy access to. I have several documents saved in Word, so I can quickly and easily find and reference back to them whenever I need to.

I think it's a great idea to have a dedicated spot for good info such as this.

[ezzy333]

Odie,

Pick a breed that you like for whatever reason. Maybe it is nothing more than just being available close to home or it is a dog that looks good to you. You will find there is very little difference in any of the breeds but a great variance in individual dogs due normally to a combination of breeding and the training that you do at home.

The continental breeds have a tenancy to work closer than the pointer and ES and probably have more retrieving bred into them. However there are many dogs in those breeds that don't conform to those generalities.

The spaniels, Brittanys,and a few other less known breeds tend to be a little smaller that is an advantage in the house. Some of the shorthaired breeds take kess maintenance, and some of the larger double coated breeds handle cold weather and cold water better.

And I guess I will have to say I have trouble going along with the idea that a couple of hundred dollars more is a minor concern. I agree if the 800 dollar pup guarantees you something the 600 or 400 dollar pup can't then it might be worth it. It is true that you will spend more for feed and vet bills but that in my mind doesn't say just spend what ever since you spend more for other things. That sounds to me exactly what our government thinks when they are spending someone else's money. That 200 I might save on the purchase price might just allow me to run hunt tests or something like that. Now that doesn't mean buy a known inferior pup because it is cheaper but by and large there are many good well bred pups being sold a couple of hundred cheaper than many others that are no better.

All I have said and I think everyone will agree is to buy what appeals to you. The only person who has to be satisfied with your dog is you so what I like has little to do with what you like. and you will never be happy if you buy something different just because someone else said it was best.

Ezzy

[Greg Jennings]

Odie,

What he said!

I think that once you get past the pointing/flushing/retrieving decision, the specific breeder/line/litter is more important than the particular breed.

I've had setters, pointers, a lab, a GSP and a Vizsla. I liked them all.

That said, it would be a huge advantage to have a breeder that could provide you with training resources nearby. Many like to see their pups turn out well.

Best regards, Greg J.

[hubweims]

odie,

my only suggestion is that you get a dog for what you looking to do. if upland bird hunting is a must, then i would go with an upland breed. i am partial to weimaraners myself, but gps's or gwp's should get the job done. these dogs should have an innate ability to retrieve waterfowl for you as well. my weims hunt dove, duck, and quail. i plan on making a pheasant trip this year, but we don't have them in ms. labs and retrievers are great dogs and i love a good retriever, but if you are wanting to hunt quail, grouse, chuckar, or pheasant i would recommend a pointing dog of versatile breeding. weims and gsp's really do well with both types of hunting. sorry to all v's, brit's, setters, and spaniels, but i don't have any experience with your breeds. i did hunt one of my weims with a brit this past season, and the brit was a really good dog. they are very attractive and intelligent, but seem to be a little more grooming maintenance after training and hunting. especially on those soggy hunts.

[littleking]

There is good one and bad ones in anyone you may look at

But for me the Brittany is number 1

[tfbirddog2]

First off I have seen every breed inside and do well with kids except for a few vizslas(two of them had a problem snapping at 2 to 3 year olds)I dont think thats very common though at all.One of the pups from my GSPs litter the dog s goes to work with the guy, and is a outstanding hunter too.You really need to be around alot of breeds I think before getting one maybe that might help.But for me its shorthairs easy to train great with kids and pretty good house dogs too.

[grant]

This is for the mod's and even Grant, Could we have a spot under training in which training processes and articles such as Knines could be stored for everyone to benefit from.

Hope this helps,

http://gundogforum.com/index.php?page=article

Grant