Arrogance or Ignorance

Silver Sage Kennels · Post by **Silver Sage Kennels** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:14 pm

After reading the "Anyone with free" thread I have given alot of thought about what kind of handler I am. About ten years ago after I had worked with quite a few dogs I started realizing that there is no end to this and I will learn everytime I cut a dog loose. Now I read from someone that has trained a couple of dogs and not trailed much if at all that he would give anyone that would give him a pup all the free and best advertising in the world. I was also contacted by this person about a dog I had for sell but the cost of shipping was a prohibiting factor for him.

My point behind this is at what point did you realize every dog is diffenent and there is a ton of stuff to learn even after you have sucessfully trained a few dogs and is shipping a dog even a consideation when buying a dog or pup?

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:25 pm

Geez Brad, I'm with you man. A little humility in this game goes along ways. Me and my pack appear to be lifelong, reappearing members in the "heros to zeros" club and I like to keep that in mind on the rare occasions we might win something and feel like crowin' a bit!! Better to just keep eyes and ears open with hat in hand.

(Another month buddy and it's go time. Get them critters in shape and start thinkin' of the cool places you're gonna take me to train!)

3forme · Post by **3forme** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:28 am

[quote=My point behind this is at what point did you realize every dog is diffenent and there is a ton of stuff to learn even after you have sucessfully trained a few dogs and is shipping a dog even a consideation when buying a dog or pup?[/quote]

#1 It was a nice way of saying I wasn't interested.

# 2 I'd say after 18 yrs of training handling dogs

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:59 am

First off, 3forme's response was to me. I didn't find it offensive ...and yet one of the most blunt, brash and egotistical posters on this forum felt the need to "put him in his place". That was funny. Then a moderator, who hasn't had an original thought since I joined this board, piled on. It went down hill from there. It wasn't 3forme's fault the thread went in that diection and was locked. The offensive posters in that thread were Charlie and Pear, not 3forme.

bobman · Post by **bobman** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:15 am

thats the way I saw it also

First off, 3forme's response was to me. I didn't find it offensive

But then I'm a "bleep" Yankee also

Seems to me enough has been said already

Theresa · Post by **Theresa** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:02 am

I ditto along with the rest of the BLEEP yanks!

And - maybe its both arrogance and ignorance; we'll see, eh?

3fr - did you get your pointer pup yet? Do I need to make some calls? You close to MN?

Let's just get you a pup and then we can bide our time in figgering out iffin' your ignernt or arrogant or.. hehe.. right.

I did agree with much of what CR said also; you can sell your best pup to someone who talks a great talk but can't follow the walk - seen that before, as any experienced breeder in any breed has.

So while I do agree, I guess I just wanna see the proof in the puddin'. This ain't no thang but a thang, no sense in sweating the small stuff - JMHO!

arrowbanshee · Post by **arrowbanshee** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:11 am

Im just a new guy that is here trying to learn something every day and along the way all of you can provide some very good entertainment. Thanks

Don · Post by **Don** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:38 am

Wow. I quit reading that thred pretty quick but just went back and read it. I just gotta know, why does a guy that claims to be as flush on money as he, need a free dog? I'm not suprized it went the way it did. I agree with Charlie. I have over the years given away a few dogs. But never to anyone that asked me for a free dog!

3forme · Post by **3forme** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:38 am

Yawallac wrote:First off, 3forme's response was to me. I didn't find it offensive ...and yet one of the most blunt, brash and egotistical posters on this forum felt the need to "put him in his place". That was funny. Then a moderator, who hasn't had an original thought since I joined this board, piled on. It went down hill from there. It wasn't 3forme's fault the thread went in that diection and was locked. The offensive posters in that thread were Charlie and Pear, not 3forme.

Yawallac I appreciate your honesty I guess when people half read threads they draw up there own conclusions. :roll:
Funny you say that as Charlie edited my whole post down to <<So>> and <<point>> and then felt the need to lay some more wood on.

Arrowbanshee We can all learn something from this board I or nobody else is above learning more on a daily basis, I know each time I run a dog I see something that makes me say did you just see what you think you saw?

Theresa I am neither arrogant or ingorant, very laid back person who let's actions speak louder than words that hates nothing more than to be told I can't do something that's all.

Don I have always been taught if you don't ask you will never know

It was not about the money and I have explained already, and I did not mean to come across as being flush I was more or less pushed into that ( bad judgement on my part) I was looking to help maybe an upstart kennel or line of dogs I sincerely meant it. If someone had approached me when I had my litter of DD's on the ground I would have gladly jumped at the opportunity.

My biggest concern with Pointers or any breed is the fact that you don't know what you are going to get, most of these kennels never even OFA any of there dogs is that the norm? I don't want to spend 6-800 for a pup and have the guy send me the skittzoid pup that spends most of the time in the back corner of the box, and I have seen just this, I have also had 2 freinds that bought BIG dollar "trained dogs" from a well established Pointer kennel who will remain nameless and these dogs weren't worth the paper the contracts were written on :roll: That is my problem with shipping pups I DO NOT want to ship a pup I want to go and pick it up and if what I see does not satisfy me then I will go home without one. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it

Theresa · Post by **Theresa** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:57 am

"Theresa I am neither arrogant or ingorant, very laid back person who let's actions speak louder than words that hates nothing more than to be told I can't do something that's all. "

Hey - you could be describing ME!!

"My biggest concern with Pointers or any breed is the fact that you don't know what you are going to get"

Welcome to PUPPIES~

".. most of these kennels never even OFA any of there dogs is that the norm?"

Yes and no. Seems some never have, never will, seems some do all the time. The most important thing as a puppy seeker is to pick the breeder who does it the way YOU would do it, ie if you want OFAed stock, seek a breeder that OFAs.

" I don't want to spend 6-800 for a pup and have the guy send me the skittzoid pup that spends most of the time in the back corner of the box"

No one wants that. You have to pick your breeder, check references, keep on interviewing until you are both on the same page. It also helps to pick up the pup in person, and prior to this have several meetings in person to verify for yourself the kennel and the breeder match what the voice on the phone says. It may be best to work only with local breeders.

" That is my problem with shipping pups I DO NOT want to ship a pup I want to go and pick it up and if what I see does not satisfy me then I will go home without one."

I so hear you! YOu are quickly finding that you have to pay -be it time or money - to get *exactly* what you want.

" Thats my story and I'm sticking to it"

Atta boy! AMEN!

adogslife · Post by **adogslife** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:14 pm

Quote:
If someone had approached me when I had my litter of DD's on the ground I would have gladly jumped at the opportunity.

Why?
DDs do not need to be promoted.

3forme · Post by **3forme** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:29 pm

adogslife wrote:Quote:
If someone had approached me when I had my litter of DD's on the ground I would have gladly jumped at the opportunity.

Why?
DDs do not need to be promoted.

It sure would be nice to have my kennel name highlighted by a great dog/handler team who would use the dog to it's fullest and not just someone that is going to run 1 test and be less than serious about it all. Kind of interesting 1st post

adogslife · Post by **adogslife** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:42 pm

Thank you.

The VDD is not about egos.

Breed within the VDD standard and you will get the "name" as your dogs prove themselves.
One litter is hardly enough time for a breeder to say anything about their kennel.

Kind of you to offer to promote some small time breeder but, if they wanted promoting, all they need to do is sell to those who hunt and test.
From the sale of a puppy or 2,maybe that breeder could enter a test or 2 and promote themselves.

A serious breeder would never rely on a total stranger to do their promoting.IMO.

bobman · Post by **bobman** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:46 pm

If someone gives me one it will go to a good home but I just hunt so no promotion from me I am secretive

Athough I am occasionally willing to brag between hunting spots to my buddies

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:47 pm

Funny you say that as Charlie edited my whole post down to <<So>> and <<point>> and then felt the need to lay some more wood on.

Just a minute here. I've had enough of dealing with you 3 both publicly and privately but let's get something straight.

I don't have the ability, nor the desire to edit any posts other than my own. You can edit your posts, Grant could edit your posts if he so desired, but I neither can, nor would want to. I did however edit mine after re-reading it the first time because I didn't like the way it read.

As for arrogance or ignorance I think it takes a substantial level of each for someone with very little to no understanding or experience in field trials to think they'll just jump right in from day one and win.

Most of us come to competing with our dogs with a fair background in hunting and hunting dogs but that certainly doesn't give one muc preparation for learning the trial game. Having dogs that can find and point birds is just the tip of the iceberg. CR

3forme · Post by **3forme** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:59 pm

WildRose wrote:
Funny you say that as Charlie edited my whole post down to <<So>> and <<point>> and then felt the need to lay some more wood on.

Just a minute here. I've had enough of dealing with you 3 both publicly and privately but let's get something straight.

I don't have the ability, nor the desire to edit any posts other than my own. You can edit your posts, Grant could edit your posts if he so desired, but I neither can, nor would want to. I did however edit mine after re-reading it the first time because I didn't like the way it read.

As for arrogance or ignorance I think it takes a substantial level of each for someone with very little to no understanding or experience in field trials to think they'll just jump right in from day one and win.
I can tell you one thing
<<SO>>
and
<<POINT>> was nowhere in my message

SERIOUSLY get off the punch!
Do I need to highlite and post the pm? The same one where you said you had known Grant long before this board existed and you get mod priviliges as such????

And I never once stated I would win any field trial NEVER ONCE if you can find proof of that or proof that I said I would show everyone in NAVHDA that a pointer could do what the continental breeds do POST IT. PLEASE POST IT!

Seriously you need to let it go pal, you are showing your true colors. If someone posts something you have 2 choices
1 IGNORE IT
2. DON'T READ IT AT ALL

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:03 pm

Once upon a time this forum was about dogs, not people. I and several others liked it that way. If all of you want to promote yourself or run other people down, whether fellow members or moderators, you need to find a different forum.

So from here on we will all go to the dogs or be asked to find a new place to post.

Ezzy

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:26 pm

Let's put this to bed and be done shall we?

Actually that post was edited by myself no one else. Since I have know Grant since long, long before he started this board I wouldn't do or say anything to offend him.

In your anger your reading comprehension is suffering along with your writing skills.

I said that I'd edited MY post not yours. Grant and I barely know each other but we've known each other through other boards since before this one was started.

I don't have any agenda and I'm not promoting myself. You asked I answered.

I had trained several hundred hunting dogs for people long before I ever saw my first field trial. I had several friends who were very avid and successful trialers that encouraged me to try it as well.

After working with a couple of them and their trial dogs I decided to give it a try. I took the limited knowledge and understanding I had of the game, put my best effort into a couple of gun dogs, two derby dogs, and some puppies.

I went to every trial I could afford to, rode every brace I had the horse power to ride. Scouted several hundred braces for my friends and learned all I could with what time I had to dedicate to it.

After 22 trials, alot of saddle sores, quite a few placements and a lot of disappointments I'm finally at a point where I feel like I can be competitive as a trainer and my dogs keep proving that their biggest limitation is me.

I couild have approached my first trials with the attitude that I was going to show everyone just how smart I was. Instead I showed up always trying to learn, always willing to help, and always trying to be a good sportsman about it.

Approaching as I have has earned me a lot of freinds and a good deal of respect along with a fair amount of success so I think I have a pretty good idea of how one should get started in this game.

My first three bracemates at my very first trial were Bryan Long, Keith Gullege, and Dennis Brath. If you start out with competition like that I can promise you it will be humbling and educational IF you approach it with the right attitude. If you don't Your trial career will most likely last about two or three trials before you leave with a very sour taste in your mouth convinced that everyone is screwing you. CR

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:32 pm

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:51 pm

WildRose wrote:
As for arrogance or ignorance I think it takes a substantial level of each for someone with very little to no understanding or experience in field trials to think they'll just jump right in from day one and win.

Most of us come to competing with our dogs with a fair background in hunting and hunting dogs but that certainly doesn't give one muc preparation for learning the trial game. Having dogs that can find and point birds is just the tip of the iceberg. CR

What CR said here is absolutely correct. Just because you THINK you have a good hunting dog, unless you can SUCCESSFULLY compete in a field trial, you'll never know. It is a huge step from have a "good ol' huntin' dog" to running a competetive field trial animal. I no longer enjoy or do trials; it's too much of an imposition on my time. But when I did, I can flat out guarantee you this: I can't even begin to say how many people I heard say, " my dog was a great dog and could have run field trials". BS. Don't even give me that crap unless you've successfully gone out, competed, and made a champion or two. It's all hot air as far as I'm concerned. Silver on the shelves tells the story, not hot air in the wind.

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:53 pm

gonehuntin' wrote: Silver on the shelves tells the story, not hot air in the wind.

Man, I gotta remember that one!!

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:00 pm

Field trials are great and prove you have a great trial dog. Show dogs are great and tell you that your dog meets the breed standards. Having a dog find, point and hold a bird till you get into position to shoot and then retrieves the bird says you have a great hunting dog. All are good but when combined you just might have a great dog. But hopefully your dog pleases you and if it does it is as good as it gets regardless of the games that you may play.

Ezzy

bobman · Post by **bobman** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:43 pm

But hopefully your dog pleases you and if it does it is as good as it gets regardless of the games that you may play.

thats the way I see it

rds7015 · Post by **rds7015** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:30 pm

Well all I am new to this site. i WILL TAKE A GSP PUP for free. Well give it a good home lots of care and will hunt with it.
I know not funny. But like some of you I have given pups away to people that I knew where good people/hunters. The others where priced high so they would take care of because of price. If the person felt that they were so good at training, why would he have to ask for one. If he is as good as he said he was, some of you would have gone to him and pay him for the service. IMHO
So much for my dumb comments.
Jim

arrowbanshee · Post by **arrowbanshee** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:29 am

all of you may have good dogs and may be good trainers, but I have bar none the best dog in the world! How is that you ask? Because she is always happy to see me and a wag of her tail will always bring a smile to my face. I think a lot of the people get TOO caught up in competition and forget about companionship. Just my two cents worth, hope all of you can work out your differences soon and everyone needs to show a little humility...I hope everyone here has a great day.

AHGSP · Post by **AHGSP** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:32 am

arrowbanshee wrote:all of you may have good dogs and may be good trainers, but I have bar none the best dog in the world! How is that you ask? Because she is always happy to see me and a wag of her tail will always bring a smile to my face. I think a lot of the people get TOO caught up in competition and forget about companionship. Just my two cents worth, hope all of you can work out your differences soon and everyone needs to show a little humility...I hope everyone here has a great day.

Well said Sir.

Theresa · Post by **Theresa** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:56 am

AHGSP wrote:
arrowbanshee wrote:all of you may have good dogs and may be good trainers, but I have bar none the best dog in the world! How is that you ask? Because she is always happy to see me and a wag of her tail will always bring a smile to my face. I think a lot of the people get TOO caught up in competition and forget about companionship. Just my two cents worth, hope all of you can work out your differences soon and everyone needs to show a little humility...I hope everyone here has a great day.
Well said Sir.

DITTO -well said!

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:32 pm

I think this thread has finally found the answer. If your dog pleases you then it is a good dog and if you love spending time with your dog then you are a good owner.

Since we have solved this riddle I am going to lock this thread as there isn't anything left to say that will improve on it.

Thanks guys and gals for finally getting back to what we are here for. I knew we could do it.

Ezzy

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