Who is the best GSP ever??????

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:10 pm

sure explains all those fc descendants of him. i'm not saying he's the best ever, but you can't look past results.

Edit: Isn't that what everyone gets up for and runs their dog's for are RESULTS..??

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:21 pm

gpblitz wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:Rusty was more Tell than Ib, in blood, I believe, and certainly in structure. That has led to a diminuation flaw to this day in heavy Rusty breeding.
Never seen Rusty. Someone said on this thread he was ugly. I don't know. Tell I've seen many , many times and my thoughts are he was a nice lookin dog. Dean Kerl built his retirement home 20 mi. from me and I sent many hours picking his brain. Some of my early dogs were son and daughters of Tell.

Did he have a stilted trot? Judging from pictures I would guess he did. I've always thought him extremely prepotent in body type, though a bit boxy. I love the story of his acquisition, also.

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:06 pm

I like the long legged dog's, MO, don't like midgets

kensfishing · Post by **kensfishing** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:20 pm

I owned a son of Tell. By far one of the most smartest dogs I've ever watched or hunted over.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:51 pm

gpblitz wrote:Tell dogs I dealt with were smart and made nice hunting dogs. Down side, a bit sharp, not biters but you knew when someone came around. If you tried to approach them they would shy away. Let them come to you wich didn't take long and they were your buddy and never forgot you.

Funny, everything you say about Tell is what I have experienced in Rusty dogs.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:48 pm

gpblitz wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:Rusty was more Tell than Ib, in blood, I believe, and certainly in structure. That has led to a diminuation flaw to this day in heavy Rusty breeding.
Never seen Rusty. Someone said on this thread he was ugly. I don't know. Tell I've seen many , many times and my thoughts are he was a nice lookin dog. Dean Kerl built his retirement home 20 mi. from me and I sent many hours picking his brain. Some of my early dogs were son and daughters of Tell. If you go back on Ib and Tell you'll find they share some common ancestury.

Great point Howie, I said he was ugly and that one photo of him is UGLY as heck, but I cannot speak from experience having not ever seen him in person. BUT he threw some great looking dogs, and if I am not mistaken a couple DC's.

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:56 pm

ACooper wrote:if I am not mistaken a couple DC's.

That's right only a couple Britts have over 500 Dual Champs that's why we are the best !!!!!!

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:33 am

Maybe if you feed and water them enough you will have a real dog in your kennel....

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:58 pm

Vision wrote:
Ron R wrote:
ElhewPointer wrote: To be honest, it is quite the oppisite. Its getting harder to find a pointer with Elhew close up in the pedigree now.
Finally, it's time for that line to just go away...don't ya think elhewpointer .

Ron R. I spent a few minutes cruising the sale pages on this site trying to find an EP litter born this year without an Elhew dog in a 5 generation pedigree. Zilch, not one litter advertised on this forum without Elhew blood in them. I did find one letter advertised in December without an Elhew in the five generation pedigree. So 1 out of about 15 or so litters without Elhew blood.

I know that is not a perfect sampling for a statistical analysis but at least it is a reference point.

Tell me more about my lack of GSP experience please?

Vision, a lot of people are just trying to sell pups. They have one dog with Elhew in its name within the last 5 gen., thats not an Elhew dog. Sorry, do some homework besides this forum.

Ron R, if we get rid of the Elhew stuff, who'd win Shooting Dog Ch.? haha. Ive got some frozen stuff that is old school Elhew. There are very few "Elhew" dogs left.

Post by **jcbuttry8** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:23 pm

I owned two of Rawhide's grandson's in oklahoma. Don't know that I will ever have two better dogs on quail. There background included dixieland's Rusty also. I vote for both of them. Great dogs and super pups several gens out.

Eighty-8

jasonw99 · Post by **jasonw99** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:37 pm

sanjo sin city slick. his offspring are the proof.

Vision · Post by **Vision** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:17 pm

[/quote]Vision, a lot of people are just trying to sell pups. They have one dog with Elhew in its name within the last 5 gen., thats not an Elhew dog. Sorry, do some homework besides this forum.[/quote]

I guess I had to make my statement more obvious for a couple of pointer boys following a GSP thread to understand it.

The current breeding practices of breeding to the present NFC is the modern form of linebreeding ,the intended purpose of this form of linebreeding is to sale puppies.................................................

jasonw99 · Post by **jasonw99** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:24 am

Cajun Casey wrote:Now, go look at some pictures of Old Danish Pointers.

Rusty was more Tell than Ib, in blood, I believe, and certainly in structure. That has led to a diminuation flaw to this day in heavy Rusty breeding.

what does that mean? what flaw? are u speaking of? explain pleasde

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:34 am

jasonw99 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:Now, go look at some pictures of Old Danish Pointers.

Rusty was more Tell than Ib, in blood, I believe, and certainly in structure. That has led to a diminuation flaw to this day in heavy Rusty breeding.

what does that mean? what flaw? are u speaking of? explain pleasde

Undersized females.

jasonw99 · Post by **jasonw99** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:43 am

really???? that's a flaw? and how can u say that's from rusty when he is so far back in most pedigrees. there is no likeness rusty. so there is about 2 percent rusty and 98 other in a pedigree. not buying the theory on that.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:52 am

jasonw99 wrote:really???? that's a flaw?

It is if you believe in some semblance of a breed standard.

jasonw99 · Post by **jasonw99** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:00 am

well then u will want to stay away from most shorthairs and go right to pointers if u want a show dog.
use the females as brood bitches they are moody inconsistent and bleed. not wrth the pain in my book

performance is my preference. my only look requirements are good bite and a liver head and ears.

what line of dog do u use?

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:40 am

jasonw99 wrote:really???? that's a flaw? and how can u say that's from rusty when he is so far back in most pedigrees. there is no likeness rusty. so there is about 2 percent rusty and 98 other in a pedigree. not buying the theory on that.

Actually rusty makes up about 23% of my males pedigree....but trust me, its NO flaw!

Fieldmaster · Post by **Fieldmaster** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:25 am

sanjo sin city slick. his offspring are the proof

+ 1 for old man Slick here. I would breed back to him in a heart beat if there was anything frozen on him. One of the most prepotent sires in the breeds history.

Robert

JimJackson · Post by **JimJackson** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:28 am

I am not going to comment on this right now, but boy you guys sure do have it totally wrong on Rusty. The only thing that I will say at this point is that there is very little actual Rusty blood out there and very little of it would clear DNA resting.

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:31 am

Fieldmaster wrote:
sanjo sin city slick. his offspring are the proof
+ 1 for old man Slick here. I would breed back to him in a heart beat if there was anything frozen on him. One of the most prepotent sires in the breeds history.

Robert

Me too!

Doug

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:40 am

well if your saying fc afc sundance's hearts are wild is no rusty grandson, then I've got no rusty....lol, never heard of "not a lot of rusty dna not clearing" but I do know as far as I know, my male has extensive rusty.
www.nextgenerationgermanshorthairs.netkennel.com

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:49 am

JimJackson wrote:I am not going to comment on this right now, but boy you guys sure do have it totally wrong on Rusty. The only thing that I will say at this point is that there is very little actual Rusty blood out there and very little of it would clear DNA resting.

At least two heavily bred Rusty sons have DNA numbers. It's not too hard to extrapolate from there if there were any questions.

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:29 am

It was either 23 or 18, can't remember off hand. I did a ten gen, thinking of it it was 18 almost 19. The 23 was a breeding between the pup I'm getting and my male. I used a calculator found online.

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:40 am

gpblitz wrote:
Ahumphers91a wrote:
It was either 23 or 18, can't remember off hand. I did a ten gen, thinking of it it was 18 almost 19. The 23 was a breeding between the pup I'm getting and my male. I used a calculator found online.
Thanks !!!

PM Sent

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:33 am

I was correct, it's actually 26.5625 Percent of blood by ancestor in 7 generations. That's all the rusty in his ped, goes back 7 generations!

Fieldmaster · Post by **Fieldmaster** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:04 pm

(Beier's Evolution / Blick von Shinback / Teton's Ace Von Shilo) would get the nod for me.

Another great animal I would like to go back to would be AFC Big Stick Von Handleburg

Any of the above would work.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:10 pm

Temperament sure doesn't count for much on the scale most are using. Wow.

Fieldmaster · Post by **Fieldmaster** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:15 pm

Temperament sure doesn't count for much on the scale most are using. Wow.

What Dogs or Lines you refering to?

Chief_dog · Post by **Chief_dog** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:21 pm

Fieldmaster wrote:
sanjo sin city slick. his offspring are the proof
+ 1 for old man Slick here. I would breed back to him in a heart beat if there was anything frozen on him. One of the most prepotent sires in the breeds history.

Robert

Me too. Old man slick is my Ace dog's only great grandfather. I sure wish I had something even closer.

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:45 pm

Fieldmaster wrote:
Temperament sure doesn't count for much on the scale most are using. Wow.
What Dogs or Lines you refering to?

He's probably referring to me, he's not one for rusty lines I guess. My dog has never growled or lifted a lip unless it was warranted! My dog is a great companion on top of his super lines. Nothing wrong with staying with proven lines imo.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:53 pm

Fieldmaster wrote:
Temperament sure doesn't count for much on the scale most are using. Wow.
What Dogs or Lines you refering to?

Some of the Rusty sons (Koonass, QRSR, Luke), Beier's Evolution, especially combined with Greif breeding, and occasionally Chick, from my personal experiences.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:13 pm

Ahumphers91a wrote:
Fieldmaster wrote:
Temperament sure doesn't count for much on the scale most are using. Wow.
What Dogs or Lines you refering to?
He's probably referring to me, he's not one for rusty lines I guess. My dog has never growled or lifted a lip unless it was warranted! My dog is a great companion on top of his super lines. Nothing wrong with staying with proven lines imo.

FYI ..he is actually a she

..ruth

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:18 pm

Lol, never cared to look....thanks.

jasonw99 · Post by **jasonw99** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:20 pm

Jim Jackson I totally get what your saying. on two issues. I often wonder how many of rusty breedings were Luke? and who are rustys parents. either way I don't care because those lines are good mixed with the right dogs.

I own American shorthair pointers. really most people do. does it matter if the dogs bred in the 60 70 80 90 may have been from pointers? as long as they have some resemblance of a shorthair. Ie liver head don't throw lemon dogs. I don't really care.

I still think slick was the greatest gsp ever. just wasn't marketed and bred like the other dogs were

Vision · Post by **Vision** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:47 pm

Fieldmaster wrote:(Beier's Evolution / Blick von Shinback / Teton's Ace Von Shilo) would get the nod for me.

Another great animal I would like to go back to would be AFC Big Stick Von Handleburg

Any of the above would work.

Oh Robert stab me right in the heart, LOL. How could you leave Shilo v Hessenwald off that list. The next great producer who died before his time.

I love all this Rusty talk when Jack was out West producing all those FC & AFC's and getting no lip service what so ever. Jack was a physical specimen, a great bird dog, an awesome field trail dog and a great producer.

I hope that litter takes out of Flash and you get another litter of winners.

Fieldmaster · Post by **Fieldmaster** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:48 pm

How could I forget Shilo ? A great one gone way to early for sure.

CHJIII · Post by **CHJIII** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:18 pm

Fieldmaster wrote:
sanjo sin city slick. his offspring are the proof
+ 1 for old man Slick here. I would breed back to him in a heart beat if there was anything frozen on him. One of the most prepotent sires in the breeds history.

Robert

I'd go along with this as well. Just got to keep Heidi Ho Pinehurst in the equation as much as possible.

Joe Amatulli · Post by **Joe Amatulli** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:19 pm

JimJackson wrote:I am not going to comment on this right now, but boy you guys sure do have it totally wrong on Rusty. The only thing that I will say at this point is that there is very little actual Rusty blood out there and very little of it would clear DNA resting.

Jim I think I know what you are about to write and all I can say is that most of the people on this site are not main line trialers and simply do not know much about trial dogs, but there are some that are and only read what is posted, but will not comment. Regardless you will piss off an offal lot of people that you will be rubbing shoulders with and competing against.

I’ll give you a call tomorrow, but think about this before you post it!

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:56 pm

I'm going to say this, There have been many GREAT dog's to run and be documented since the GSP's inception and we are all blessed from what they have left behind. I'm just more one sided I guess, but you can't say there is a clear cut "BEST." You can however take what you can from the results and make a fair assessment of what certain dog's accomplished.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:04 pm

Haters gonna hate? Or is there something to this? My thoughts? From the pics of rusty in this thread, I think he looks like a long tail. Maybe it's just me?

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:06 pm

Probably just you. If you go back... I mean way back and look at all the pic's (especially Moesgaards IB) He looks just like everyone of them. Even Skovemarkens Sep has the same look. It's the "Danish" lines

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:07 pm

brad27 wrote:Haters gonna hate? Or is there something to this? My thoughts? From the pics of rusty in this thread, I think he looks like a long tail. Maybe it's just me?

You know, I heard he was born with one.......... :roll:

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:11 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:
brad27 wrote:Haters gonna hate? Or is there something to this? My thoughts? From the pics of rusty in this thread, I think he looks like a long tail. Maybe it's just me?
You know, I heard he was born with one.......... :roll:

LMFAO....

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:12 pm

Ahumphers91a wrote:Probably just you. If you go back... I mean way back and look at all the pic's (especially Moesgaards IB) He looks just like everyone of them. Even Skovemarkens Sep has the same look. It's the "Danish" lines

Because the danish dogs carried a lot of pointer blood...

Ahumphers91a · Post by **Ahumphers91a** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:14 pm

ACooper wrote:
Ahumphers91a wrote:Probably just you. If you go back... I mean way back and look at all the pic's (especially Moesgaards IB) He looks just like everyone of them. Even Skovemarkens Sep has the same look. It's the "Danish" lines

Because the danish dogs carried a lot of pointer blood...

Good Read: http://www.westwindgsps.com/german_shor ... istory.htm

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:18 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:
brad27 wrote:Haters gonna hate? Or is there something to this? My thoughts? From the pics of rusty in this thread, I think he looks like a long tail. Maybe it's just me?
You know, I heard he was born with one.......... :roll:

Not some of your best work. You should try harder next time. If you'd like to know my true feelings on this you could read that first line in my post again and look at my girls ped.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:24 pm

brad27 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:
brad27 wrote:Haters gonna hate? Or is there something to this? My thoughts? From the pics of rusty in this thread, I think he looks like a long tail. Maybe it's just me?
You know, I heard he was born with one.......... :roll:
Not some of your best work. You should try harder next time. If you'd like to know my true feelings on this you could read that first line in my post again and look at my girls ped.

I've seen your dog's lineage. Sonny, which is one of the better recent incarnations of Rusty breeding. Personally, I've looked carefully at Keg Creek's Rising Cooper.

If you would like to PM me an e-mail addy, I'll show you some pedigrees. I have only three dogs that are not heavily founded in Rusty. Those three are cousins from the same breeder. Some of my mutts have more Rusty in their little stub tails than your girl has in her whole body. That's why I feel justified in commenting on the faults in the line. I've seem most of them up close and personal for five generations.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:50 pm

more words does not mean more effort. nowhere was i bragging about how much "rusty" my dog had in her. besides, why would i care about a dog 6 and 7 gens. back in a ped. :roll: might as well said i have a hillhavenXwendy dog :roll:

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:53 pm

Cajun

Anyone can make a false pedigree and since you get all of your information from Google.. wouldn't be that hard. Doubt you have a dog worth running. Let alone a dog with any worth. How about not posting on every topic on the forum.

Once again the pic in your avatar shows a dog on top of a bird and shows no style what so ever. Please if you have pictures and pedigree that weren't obtained from Google post them up. Until you show results you just show your a know it all who knows nothing.

P.S. when you are proved to be wrong in a subject the easier thing to do is not post in the first place... erasing your past posts take longer then making them.