Seeking good advice

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richmond_rod

Seeking good advice

Post by richmond_rod » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:35 am

First timer here , I live in Mechanicsville, Virginia , which is a suburb town just outside of Richmond . Briefly my story is this , I am 45 years old , grew up hunting small game , squirrels , rabbits , and quail . In those days I could walk the edge of the nearest field and jump a covey or two almost every time out . I drifted away from hunting in my late 20's , and recently some of my buddies have pulled me back into it . I have no desire to hunt deer or turkeys , which is by far the most popular game of choice in this area . I have always felt that some day I would have a bird dog it's hard to explain that , I just have always known the day would come . I recently had to put down my Jack Russell who shared 13 plus years with me . Which I guess puts me in the market for a house dog as well as a bird dog . From the research I have done online it seems like the GSP is the right choice to fill both of my needs .

Here comes the complicated part , I have never hunted with a bird dog . So that creates a lot of questions for me . What are my best options . If I buy a finished dog , then how much time would it take to train me to handle the dog ? Being a complete novice how would it be possible for me to overcome any problems or quirks the dog or more likely myself may develop ? Would it be a better idea to buy a quality pup and have him trained locally ? That would give me someone easily accessible to help me and my dog out when needed . Or am I living in fantasy world and there is no way possible that this could ever work out successfully ? I work very long days , I am away 12 to 13 hours every day . but I have no problem devoting some time before and/or after work daily .

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bobman
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Post by bobman » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:57 am

for your first dog a trained dog would be best.

12 hours a day away is no good scenairo for a GSP pup , unless you have a wife or someone to spend some time with it the pup will become bored and then destructive or a barker, GSPs are very active dogs.


You would probably be better off with a trained three year old dog.
currently two shorthairs, four english pointers, one Brittany, one SPRINGER a chihuahua and a min pin lol

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Post by volraider » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:06 am

A well bred started dog is going at $3500 and go up based on training. If you had time to keep up with a Jack Russell you should be able to keep up with a bird dog. If I were going to keep the dog in the house I would look to some bloodlines that are known for calm temperament. Theres a lot of NAVHDA breeders who keep their dogs in the house. Theres some really good breeders within 150 miles of you.

Brian

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WiskeyJaR
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Post by WiskeyJaR » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:43 am

Richmond_Rod, Im more or less in same boat as you. Looking to start with a dog meself for the frist time.

I dont have the big bucks myself to buy a "finished" dog, so am gonna try train from a pup. This book I have found interesting and helpfull
http://www.gundogsupply.com/training-th ... g-dog.html
Im sure some of the other folks here could recommend other books/videos too.

Here are a cople breeds I have been looking at as they seem calm enough for house time.
Large Munsterlander
Wirehaired Pointer griffon
Clumber Spaniel
Sussex Spaniel
Just me 2 cents worth, Good luck either way

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WildRose
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Post by WildRose » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:21 am

I'll take a different tack and suggest this. Since you are basically a complete novice but obviously someone who will over time become dedicated to the sport and I'm guessing someone who would like to learn it all from the ground up start with a pup.

Take the pup home and make him your best buddy and just enjoy him for a year, then find a good trainer in your area.

In fact I'd start the search for a trainer now and find someone who will be willing to work with both you and the dog all the way through the process.

By the time the dog is two you should have not only a very well trained dog, that you've been able to enjoy as he has grown and matured along with an appreciation for what it takes to raise and train a pup from the ground up.

If however your goal is to have a dog you can hunt with as fast as possible then start with a young started dog (and a trainer who will work with both of you) or buy a finished dog.

I think if you start from scratch and work your way up however in the long run you'll get much more out of it. CR
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Post by adogslife » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:30 am

Those are some "exoctic" breeds to choose from.
As a beginner maybe it makes more sense to go with a breed(s) that most know and have trained?

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ezzy333
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Post by ezzy333 » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:43 am

I like Wild Rose's suggestions. Training a hunting dog is much easier than people realize. Most of the hunt is bred in and most of what you do is teach manners and behavior that you want.

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WiskeyJaR
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Post by WiskeyJaR » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:10 pm

Adoglife posted ""Those are some "exoctic" breeds to choose from. ""
yea i agree, but then I like to be a little different then the "norm" I do agree that a more common breed might be easier to find training on

Speaking on the Exotic breeds....anyone have any experience with the Stabyhoun?

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WildRose
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Post by WildRose » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:46 pm

Whiskey I'd strongly suggest you rethink the idea of starting with "something exotic". Those exotic breeds all come from rather small/narrow gene pools and are for the most part owned and bred by people that "just want to be different".

That doesn't mean you can't find a quaility dog of those breeds but your odds of doing so are lessened quite a bit.

Getting a quality dog is a 12-15 year or longer commitment and if you end up unhappy with your first the odds are less that you will stay with the sport and try again.

There are good reasons why a few breeds have really become popular in the US. It has nothing to do with fads it has to do with utility, serviceability and consistency. The more popular breeds simply have proven to work better for most of us which is why they are more popular.

Would you rather be known as the guy who has the only XYZ breed around, or the guy who has that really nice ABC breed that is such a fine dog?

I'll never forget the only guy I ever saw get out of a brand new Jaguar in the middle of a Texas pasture to quail hunt. However I'll also never forget having to drag his poor car, behind my ten year old F-350 a mile down a muddy road so he could get it back onto the highway and drive home.

He had a wonderful and very expensive car that was quite memorable but it was also useless and way too expensive for this purpose.

You will improve your odds of success by going with what works best, rather than what's cool and uncommon. CR
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Post by Don » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:11 pm

Charlie I lost a lot of clients by telling them to bring back their pups at a year and all I wanted it to know was what "here" and "no" ment. They were some of the easiest and best dogs I ever trained. I don't think your allowed to suggest what you did, shame on you! :D

As for "something exotic", I've seen a limited number of those dogs at training days with different clubs, none were worth feeding unless you just wanted to pet them. I have never seen the first one in the field. A guy I used to know south of Eugene had a German Longhair and a Large Munsterlander (I think thats what it was) and in two years of watching these two dogs, I never saw the first point.
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richmond_rod

Post by richmond_rod » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:47 pm

Thanks all for the advice seems like there is no real consensus as to what is the best path for me . So from what I am gathering you guys feel like a GSP pup is a handful to say the least . To pat myself on the back a little , I did raise an extremely well behaved Jack Russell . It took quite a bit of effort , lots of " homework " , and I faithfully took him outside when I got home from work and wore him out as best I could playing fetch with a tennis ball or frisbee . And I mean every night , summer , winter , daylight , dark , rain , shine or occasional snow . I guess my point is I will do what needs to be done to do right by my dog .

Lets say I go the puppy route . Is the GSP the right choice for me ?As best I can tell GSP's are not that popular in this area , so should I buy one from an out of state breeder that comes from a premium line ? Or is that overkill for my first bird dog ? Male or female or does it matter ?Wildrose you suggested possibly getting a pup , raising it for a year and then start working with a trainer . That idea I find interesting , I had no idea that training could wait , I just assumed that training started from day one . In the back of my mind I had some doubt about getting a finished dog that at least initially had no bond with me and thus no desire to please me . I want an inside dog so crating during the day would be a must . I am flying solo so I guess during the puppy period I could recruit a neighbor or possibly hire a professional to stop by and let it outside for a bit during the day .

I have started to network a little , I'm a UPS driver in a very rural area so I meet lots of farmers , landowners , plenty of folks that hunt . I have found a man on my route that trains English Pointers for field trials . He has invited me to attend some upcoming trials and I think he wants to introduce me to a friend of his that trains gun dogs . Hopefully he will be as willing to help me out as you all have been , of course I may wear out my welcome with my never ending array of questions .

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Post by WildRose » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:08 pm

How big a handful a GSP is going to be will depend a lot on the lines you get one from. If you do decide to go that route just pick a well respected breeder who has a reputation for producing exactly what you are looking for in a dog. Check references.

When you settle on a breeder then let that breeder guide you to the right breeding, and the right pup. What keeps breeders in business isn't marketing a lot of dogs or advertising it's putting the right pup in the right home. Every dog a breeder sells that makes the owners happy will sell at least four to ten more for that breeder in the future. There's no advertising as effective as a happy customer who tells everyone where they bought that which they are happy with. CR
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hubweims

Post by hubweims » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:42 pm

i think that in order for us to really help we need more information. what type of dog are you wanting. do you want a pointer or a flusher for hunting quail? what type of dogs do your friends have that are getting you back in the sport? I am probably gonna get slammed on here for this, but this board is made up of 75-80% gsp owners. Of course, you are going to hear about the great qualities of a gsp and how they are the perfect dog. i would still be interested in finding out about other breeds if i were you. a great calm easy trainable dog that can hunt whatever you want to hunt is a lab. they are not a pointer, but will flush for you in gun range. so, what style dog are you looking for? if i were away that much during the day you may want to look at an english pointer. they are still the only 100% bird dog. you can leave them in the house for 9 months, and take them out three times a year and he/she will hunt birds for you. they are also a little less expensive and you can find a good quality dog. that's if you want a pointer. i can't recommend a weim or a v with you spending that much time away during the day every day. i would be hesitant on a gsp being alone for that long with or without neighbors helping for potty breaks, but other people on here are more knowledgeable of their breed.

With regards to age of dog, i would say go with the pup. nothing can bring joy in your life like a pup, and seeing them grow and mature is amazing. of course, they will make you want to pull your hair out, but it is all worth it in the long run. even a started dog will run you from 2500-5000. a finished dog will cost more. the initial cost of the dog will be far less with a pup. also, like others have said, you don't need to train for the first year so you get a buddy and companion to bond with for a year. then you can send them to the trainer, or by then you may have read some good training books, watched some training videos, talked to enough people, and found a great mentor that you may want to train your pup yourself.

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Post by snips » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:06 pm

I have a 4 month old GSP pup I am selling to the right home. He is as started as it gets, pointing, backing, retrieving fool, land and water, and calm and sweet. Great for a first time owner. Very natural in everything. He loves to hunt. We have clients in Mechanicsville and Christianburg. I know they go to a hunt club around there, they have club trials and such. Send a pm if interested.
brenda

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Richard *UT*
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Post by Richard *UT* » Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:54 am

I have found a man on my route that trains English Pointers for field trials . He has invited me to attend some upcoming trials and I think he wants to introduce me to a friend of his that trains gun dogs . Hopefully he will be as willing to help me out as you all have been , of course I may wear out my welcome with my never ending array of questions .
Going to a field trial is a great idea. I went to one and I knew what kind of dog I wanted that day. Also by going to a field trial you will be able to find all kinds of people who have info on breeders, training methods, trainers, food, e-collars.... I would not worry about talking a dog man's ear off about dogs, I might set an hour aside to listen though. :lol: Thats why you have people on this site to train alot and are very busy but still have posted over a thousand messages. We all love our dogs, and love to talk about good dogs working. I have learned that dog people are more than happy to answer all questions about dogs. If you ask a group of people one question you will get a couple answers at least. That is because there is more than one way to skin a cat. Remember that these dog people you are talking to started out one day the same as you. They have been doing it for a while and can give you shortcuts to save you the bumps and knocks they have experienced. I think if you talk to some trainers, full or part time, there will be one that you get along with the best. Thats a great place to start. Good Luck. :D
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