JH Titles
JH Titles
What goes into a JH title? Is it meaningful?
A neighbor is looking at a litter of Brittanys from a predominantly show breeder in NJ. The litter's mom has a JH titles and there are many JH and one SH up the line. The dad doesn't have any field or hunting titles, but comes from extensive DC and DC/AFC lines.
My neighbor isnt much of a hunter, but has expressed an interest. So down the road this could be important.
Cheers,
Gary
A neighbor is looking at a litter of Brittanys from a predominantly show breeder in NJ. The litter's mom has a JH titles and there are many JH and one SH up the line. The dad doesn't have any field or hunting titles, but comes from extensive DC and DC/AFC lines.
My neighbor isnt much of a hunter, but has expressed an interest. So down the road this could be important.
Cheers,
Gary
- Gordon Guy
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My Opinion. Yes, it's a good thing, as compared to nothing. A JH title shows that the dogs have some level of hunting instincts and drive. Otherwise how would you know unless you 've seen them hunt. There are some who question the judges decision on whether the dogs have the "proper" level of instinct and drive but you will always have people that question the judges decisions. The proper level of drive is defined by the individual owning the dog.
What goes into a JH title: That would best be answered if you looked up the AKC website and read the rules/standards for a Junior Hunter Title or else you'll get everyones opinion.
I've seen some pretty inexperienced dogs in Hunt Tests (Don't know if they passed) and then I've seen some dogs that I would be proud to hunt over.
What goes into a JH title: That would best be answered if you looked up the AKC website and read the rules/standards for a Junior Hunter Title or else you'll get everyones opinion.
I've seen some pretty inexperienced dogs in Hunt Tests (Don't know if they passed) and then I've seen some dogs that I would be proud to hunt over.
Tom
Basically the dog has to point a bird for 3 seconds. They have to have some training like range and they have to find the bird in the field. Finding a bird in a JH is not usually that hard. And they don't have to be trained very well but it shows the dog will find a bird and point it. SH is a very large jump for a dog and the JH is basically there to get people into hunt testing. Majority of dogs that get a JH will never get a SH and the SH will accuallly show the dog could be hunted and complete the tasks required by a hunting companion like hunting, pointing, handling, retrieving, backing, and STW&S.
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- Greg Jennings
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IMHO, the JH tells you just about nothing about the hunting ability of a dog.
A long line of CH plus JH, to me, says "show dog". The question after that is if those breeders were both sincere and competent about breeding for a hunting dog.
FWIW, Greg J.
A long line of CH plus JH, to me, says "show dog". The question after that is if those breeders were both sincere and competent about breeding for a hunting dog.
FWIW, Greg J.
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Re: JH Titles
From a breeder/puppy buyer perspective, a JH title is all but meaningless. Does it show some level of hunting ability? Yes. Does it show ENOUGH hunting ability to deem the dog to be of breedable quality? Not even close.gar-dog wrote:What goes into a JH title? Is it meaningful?
A neighbor is looking at a litter of Brittanys from a predominantly show breeder in NJ. The litter's mom has a JH titles and there are many JH and one SH up the line. The dad doesn't have any field or hunting titles, but comes from extensive DC and DC/AFC lines.
My neighbor isnt much of a hunter, but has expressed an interest. So down the road this could be important.
Cheers,
Gary
There are plenty of quality Brit breeders around; unless your neighbor is looking to show a dog there isn't much need to buy from a show breeder who isn't willing to put meaningful hunting titles on their dogs.
JH is useful from the aspect that it gets people involved in the sport. It's great for newbies and their individual dogs; bad for the dog breeds when used to justify breeding a dog.
JMO,
Dave
One thing to keep in mind, however, is whether or not the breeder is using the JH as a justification for breeding. Some people just don't hunt, and don't train for hunting. Others hunt, they just don't play the games to get the letters before or after the name.
If you or your neighbor have seen the dogs in the field and are receptive to their hunting ability, then you can disregard all of the bad commentary about the JH title. If the JH title is all you are going on in a decision to buy a pup for hunting, then you need to do further investigation.
If you or your neighbor have seen the dogs in the field and are receptive to their hunting ability, then you can disregard all of the bad commentary about the JH title. If the JH title is all you are going on in a decision to buy a pup for hunting, then you need to do further investigation.
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Wind River's JK Black Tie Affair - Tux
Justus Kennels.com
Justus James Ayres SH CGC - Justus - Rest in Peace, buddy.
Wind River's JK Clara Belle - Belle
Wind River's JK Black Tie Affair - Tux
Thanks for all of the quick replies.
They have a choice of 2 litters in the area:
1) a NGDC dad and proven family hunter mom, or
2) litter from a mainly show kennel. The guy was an avid hunter his whole life but has some health issues and doesn't get out as much. Been breeding britts for 40 years. He is a well-respected breeder and has clean kennel. His website has many pictures of his dogs out hunting. I think the guy had a knee replacement or something and is well into his 60s.
I shied away from him, as I am an avid hunter, so I went with field lines (Bucks Hit the Road Jack sired). Neighbors had been wanting a dog and fell in love with mine (they are only human you know). They are non-hunters. But interest is there.
Selfishly having an eye to recruiting my buddy into the sport , I have been trying to make sure they get a dog that at least has a nose.... albeit this dog will be a pet first. The show kennels have only JH all over one line. The other has some DC and AFCs in there. I also want to make sure they don't get a screamer!
G
They have a choice of 2 litters in the area:
1) a NGDC dad and proven family hunter mom, or
2) litter from a mainly show kennel. The guy was an avid hunter his whole life but has some health issues and doesn't get out as much. Been breeding britts for 40 years. He is a well-respected breeder and has clean kennel. His website has many pictures of his dogs out hunting. I think the guy had a knee replacement or something and is well into his 60s.
I shied away from him, as I am an avid hunter, so I went with field lines (Bucks Hit the Road Jack sired). Neighbors had been wanting a dog and fell in love with mine (they are only human you know). They are non-hunters. But interest is there.
Selfishly having an eye to recruiting my buddy into the sport , I have been trying to make sure they get a dog that at least has a nose.... albeit this dog will be a pet first. The show kennels have only JH all over one line. The other has some DC and AFCs in there. I also want to make sure they don't get a screamer!
G
Last edited by gar-dog on Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you are wanting a hunting dogand pet I would be more than happy to find a dog with a JH title as well as some show titles. JH tells me the dog still has hunting instincts and that is what you need in a hunting dog. SH and MH are steps up but are more directed at how they are trained. You will probably have difficulty finding a Brit without hunting instinct bu at least with the title you know it is there.
Will those pups be field trial dogs, they might but it sure isn't what I would look for if that is what you are trying to buy. But I like the DC background and at least a JH on the others. I know this is not the popular position with people who breed trial dogs and I agree, but for a nice pet, hunting dog it is a good beginning. The rest can be taught if the instinct is there.
JMO
Ezzy
Will those pups be field trial dogs, they might but it sure isn't what I would look for if that is what you are trying to buy. But I like the DC background and at least a JH on the others. I know this is not the popular position with people who breed trial dogs and I agree, but for a nice pet, hunting dog it is a good beginning. The rest can be taught if the instinct is there.
JMO
Ezzy
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It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!
Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.
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It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!
Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.
That sums it up pretty good. A JH simply doesn't tell you much.Ayres wrote: If you or your neighbor have seen the dogs in the field and are receptive to their hunting ability, then you can disregard all of the bad commentary about the JH title. If the JH title is all you are going on in a decision to buy a pup for hunting, then you need to do further investigation.
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DC AFC Valley Hunter's Southern Comfort CD MH NA NAJ, UT Prize II, "Shooter"
DC GCH Lagniappe's Chosen One MH, "Buffy"
DC AFC SoCo's Enchanted One JH, "TomBoy"
CH SoCo's Independence Day SH, "Patriot"
SoCo's Twist of Fate JH, "Emma Jane"
DC AFC Valley Hunter's Southern Comfort CD MH NA NAJ, UT Prize II, "Shooter"
DC GCH Lagniappe's Chosen One MH, "Buffy"
DC AFC SoCo's Enchanted One JH, "TomBoy"
CH SoCo's Independence Day SH, "Patriot"
SoCo's Twist of Fate JH, "Emma Jane"
Thanks Ezzy. I am the hunter, not them. I would love for their dog to run with mine and maybe come out hunting with me next year. That's why I see at least something in the JH.
If they go the other route, their dog would have same sire as mine, and the dam would be a half-sister of Ginger's dam. That's 75% the same pedigree. I will not spay for 2 years and they are getting a male, so I'd be a little worried if they accidentally hooked up.
If they go the other route, their dog would have same sire as mine, and the dam would be a half-sister of Ginger's dam. That's 75% the same pedigree. I will not spay for 2 years and they are getting a male, so I'd be a little worried if they accidentally hooked up.
- kninebirddog
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When it comes to hunt test I would look to SH and MH
But then also don't shut the door on other venues either...basically there is the same gene pool but as in a hunters case a NSTRA dog is really being judged on a hunting and bird finding ability
They all go hand in hand they all have to have desire to get out there and look for birds
they all require training and biddibilty for the training
they all need to stamina to handle running strong for30- 60 minutes
even the run and gun events though those events are timed in the aspect how quick they get their 3 birds...they stil have to find birds
They all offer something for a hunter to be able to know that they are getting a dog from dams and sires which can get out there and find birds after that it is the differences in training which again comes do to a good breeding program
But then also don't shut the door on other venues either...basically there is the same gene pool but as in a hunters case a NSTRA dog is really being judged on a hunting and bird finding ability
They all go hand in hand they all have to have desire to get out there and look for birds
they all require training and biddibilty for the training
they all need to stamina to handle running strong for30- 60 minutes
even the run and gun events though those events are timed in the aspect how quick they get their 3 birds...they stil have to find birds
They all offer something for a hunter to be able to know that they are getting a dog from dams and sires which can get out there and find birds after that it is the differences in training which again comes do to a good breeding program
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.
If I were you, I'd get the names of the first three generations of the pup's. If I didn't recognize any names, I'd put them on here and see what the Britt people here think. One important thing to remember about Britt's, There's more dual ch Britt's than any other breed. It's that way for a reason. When I was into trialing, a Britt trial came with a speciality show. Britt people were far more conscientious about field and conformation than other breeds. I see where some of the Britt people right here even engage in both, even if not trialing. Rather than see the titles, see the parents work in the field. If the breeder doesn't have time for such things, don't walk but run away.
As for titles, I would not buy any pup based on a title on the parents, not even MH.
As for titles, I would not buy any pup based on a title on the parents, not even MH.
Never set your dog up to fail - Delmar smith
The greatest room in the world is the room for improvement - William F. Brown
Some people think to much like people and not enough like dogs!
The greatest room in the world is the room for improvement - William F. Brown
Some people think to much like people and not enough like dogs!
Perfect pedigree, both parents and grandparents are NFCs and MHs, AND you have had the opportunity to hunt over both of them on birds you will hunt in areas you will hunt. FC AFC MH next best, if you have the chance to hunt over the parents. Worst case...show dogs with JH titles and little more. I'd rather have non titled parents from FC grandparents who have been hunted on wild birds than show dogs. JH means little if anything. Some show dogs run ten times to pass enough times to get the JH and then call their pups "dual quality" pups. Just not the case in most situations. Breeders will tell you they hunt. Most do not, pure and simple.
See the parents, have the breeder work them on birds AND run them for you in an area that shows their range, their style, their stamina, gait, desire, overall abilities. Personally, as a breeder I expect owners of my pups to hunt the heck out of the dogs and really prefer that they compete ALSO. No potential buyer should expect less.
Quite honestly, I wouldn't sell you friend a pup unless he was truly committed to hunting. So, this litter might be just fine for him.
See the parents, have the breeder work them on birds AND run them for you in an area that shows their range, their style, their stamina, gait, desire, overall abilities. Personally, as a breeder I expect owners of my pups to hunt the heck out of the dogs and really prefer that they compete ALSO. No potential buyer should expect less.
Quite honestly, I wouldn't sell you friend a pup unless he was truly committed to hunting. So, this litter might be just fine for him.
As for the breed, they liked what I liked with the Britt. Size, non-shedding, good family dog, disposition, not much of a barker, athletic active dog, cute factor, potential for hunting.
I am taking my neighbor to shoot clays tomorrow. We'll see how he takes to the gun. His Dad was a hunter. But my buddy was raised in Brooklyn..... a different kind of hunting over there
I am taking my neighbor to shoot clays tomorrow. We'll see how he takes to the gun. His Dad was a hunter. But my buddy was raised in Brooklyn..... a different kind of hunting over there
Just wait....frequently they don't get their full coat in until they're 12-18 months old. Lucky for you, we have one of the most talented Brittany groomers around right in Blairstown. http://www.hopeskennels.com
It's well worth the trip to have Doug groom a Brittany for you.
It's well worth the trip to have Doug groom a Brittany for you.
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- kninebirddog
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gardog give your pup a bit more time..Brittanys are anything but non shedding
Same with pointers they are any thing but none shedding
We travel and have pointers setters and Brittanys and you should see the shedding that they ALL do I think the pointers shed the most but because they ahve a shorter coat it takes twice as much
as Karen stated wait till they mature and the coatcomes in ...my young gal she is about 10 months her coat has finally come in and has started to shed some
Same with pointers they are any thing but none shedding
We travel and have pointers setters and Brittanys and you should see the shedding that they ALL do I think the pointers shed the most but because they ahve a shorter coat it takes twice as much
as Karen stated wait till they mature and the coatcomes in ...my young gal she is about 10 months her coat has finally come in and has started to shed some
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.
- Ruffshooter
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This may have been said I just skimmed. A dog that has a JH title may have run as a full grown dog not a puppy.
Get your self a large garbage bag and save the sheddings, in no time you will have enough hair to knit a nice sweater.
Get your self a large garbage bag and save the sheddings, in no time you will have enough hair to knit a nice sweater.
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.
Rick
Rick
- kninebirddog
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Well if your comparing with ultimates LOL
nothing like dogs with mass under coats
nothing like dogs with mass under coats
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.
I think Ezzy pretty well covered my opinion on the JH.
If your in Jersey, here is the Brits to look at:
http://www.quailhollowkennel.com/
I don't run Brits, but I've had the pleasure of spending at least a day every week for the past 4 years during Grouse Season, behind one of Steve's Brits owned by a friend; have worked with 2 other pups from his breeding and have seen another 3 in Hunt Test and I can just not say enough good about them. From my rather "Brit un-educated" opinion.
If your in Jersey, here is the Brits to look at:
http://www.quailhollowkennel.com/
I don't run Brits, but I've had the pleasure of spending at least a day every week for the past 4 years during Grouse Season, behind one of Steve's Brits owned by a friend; have worked with 2 other pups from his breeding and have seen another 3 in Hunt Test and I can just not say enough good about them. From my rather "Brit un-educated" opinion.
Bruce Shaffer
"If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten"
Mark Twain
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Almost Heaven GSP's
"In Search of the Perfect GSP";)
"If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten"
Mark Twain
Bruce, Raine, Storm and GSP's
Almost Heaven GSP's
"In Search of the Perfect GSP";)
"Crazy Hunters" would be accurate. "Tricky dog", as I call her, is he!! on Grouse and Doodles and won a Coverdog Trial last year that my buddy entered her in "just for the heck of it". Competeing is really not his cup of tea. She was not trained per se, but rather was given LOTS of exposure to Grouse and Doodles on a routine basis. She has probably seen less than 2 dozen pen birds in her life and there is not a dog I would hesitate to put her down with on Wild birds. Lately, her forte has been Wild Quail & Doodles on the shore and from what I understand, has taken right to the Quail without so much as a hiccup.
She is also 100% spoiled house dog.
Were I to have a Brit in my future, I wouldn't hesitate to call Steve and I don't know him on any personal level... just his dogs.
She is also 100% spoiled house dog.
Were I to have a Brit in my future, I wouldn't hesitate to call Steve and I don't know him on any personal level... just his dogs.
Bruce Shaffer
"If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten"
Mark Twain
Bruce, Raine, Storm and GSP's
Almost Heaven GSP's
"In Search of the Perfect GSP";)
"If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten"
Mark Twain
Bruce, Raine, Storm and GSP's
Almost Heaven GSP's
"In Search of the Perfect GSP";)
- Kiki's Mom
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For what this is worth, both breeders you are looking at will provide your neighbor with a quality companion dog. BOTH breeders are knowledgable in what a good hunting Brittany is and to get a pup from either one, your friend won't go wrong. BOTH put out some very lovely Brittanys. Guess it will come down to which pup grabs his heart.
I'd personally take a pup from either litter, regardless of what the pedigree paper says on the "show bred" dogs with only the JH. If you need any more incentive, talk to Karen about her Blaze....
I'd personally take a pup from either litter, regardless of what the pedigree paper says on the "show bred" dogs with only the JH. If you need any more incentive, talk to Karen about her Blaze....
Helen, Kiki
& the Wild Mtn Brittany Gang
www.wildmtnbrittanys.com
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=875
& the Wild Mtn Brittany Gang
www.wildmtnbrittanys.com
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=875
I got my pup a JR hunt title. This is my first dog. She has been on birds since she was 10 weeks old. I did it more for MY handling experience in the field. This was a way for me to get feedback for how I was training the dog. Each and every judge that looked at her complimented me on her independence, obiedence and her pointing.
This year I am training for a SR title and will also try and get her Navhda NA test before her 16th month.
I am sure most of the verterans here do not worry about JR titles and rightfully so.
I knew I was getting a good dog, I just didnt know how good of a trainer she was going to make me.
Rich
This year I am training for a SR title and will also try and get her Navhda NA test before her 16th month.
I am sure most of the verterans here do not worry about JR titles and rightfully so.
I knew I was getting a good dog, I just didnt know how good of a trainer she was going to make me.
Rich
There is nothing better than Puppy Breath!
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Fieldmaster's Behind Sad Eyes NA I (112)
Alliwood's Secret Lover
Country-Side's Patricia Anne Boyd MH UTI NAII CGC
Fieldmaster's Behind Sad Eyes NA I (112)
Alliwood's Secret Lover
Best dog I owned was from Ch lines, sire and dam both Ch JH titled. Was hege-haus bred tho. Look at the dogs, see what they do. I took a live quail with me in a pocket, got downwind she went right on point, the gal didnt understand that and I got her, took her out hunting found she was gun shy, took me like 1 day to get her over it, she was the best hunter I ever owned, wish I would have bred her a got a pup like her. Genetics are very important in a dog or any animal.
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"If there are no dogs in Heaven,
then when I die I want to go
where they went."
Will Rogers, 1897-1935