GSPs that are "best" suited to the Mojave Desert

Billinsd · Post by **Billinsd** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:47 pm

What GSP Breeder would you recommend for a guy that hunts the Mojave Desert? It's bouldery as heck, steep, brushy, and average daily temps are in the 80s. Even in January it can get HOT during the day. To hunt chukar.

Are smaller, lighter weight, female GSPs better, or taller, heavier males better suited?

My Shooting Star GSP is about 44 lbs and normal size as far as a female gsp according to AKC. She is in good shape, not great. I am not a triathalon, but I am in very, very good shape for being 48. Honestly, I think I can go about 10 times as long as her. Granted she is hunting and quartering and probably covers 5 or 6 times as much ground as me. She is really poor at waterfowl and from what I have seen most short haired "versatile" dogs are not very good, imho, lol, in the water. I'm sure some are, though.

Are there GSPs that can hunt in 80 degree weather, with water and breaks for 7 or so hours?

I'm probably thinking of Field Trail lines, right? I'm a foot hunter also. And I live in the suburbs, so it is important for the dog to mellow out a bit at home.

Larry Lowell's GSPs are the ones that come to my mind. What about you all? What about you guys that hunt the Mojave for chukar and hunt hard all day.

Probably dreaming, huh?
Bill

Billinsd · Post by **Billinsd** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:49 pm

This photo shows the typical terrain I like.
Bill

Troy08er · Post by **Troy08er** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:15 pm

Larry Lowell breeds some great hunting dogs and has litters on the ground. That's were Gator dog is from and he's awesome on chukar.My female was also from Larry Bean X Ullie breeding, she was also bird crazy and a great family dog.
A few litters with in a 100 miles.http://www.mdkshorthairs.com/
Ellis justed emailed me and has a few pups B.E. lines. http://landmarkennels.com/

and the Richardson's http://www.prairiewindgsps.com/index.html

Good luck

northern cajun · Post by **northern cajun** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:32 pm

I must say this really brings up the nature vs nurture question.

Do you think a good dog bred in the east couldnt make a great chucker dog or vice versa a great chucker dog not be a great Cover dog for grouse.

I am sorry if this distracts from the post but I do believe it is relavent.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:48 pm

Lets just say I have sent a couple pups to Utah that have made pretty good Chukar dogs though their sire was from California.I really don't believe it's an east or weast thing but more on learning to hunt the birds & the habitat they live in.Most good dogs can learn in a few days how to handle the birds if given the chance,getting use to the terrain might take a little longer but get use to it they can.No different then you or me just have the desire & will to do so.

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:40 pm

Nice post Ted

Garrison · Post by **Garrison** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:56 pm

northern cajun wrote:I must say this really brings up the nature vs nurture question.

Do you think a good dog bred in the east couldnt make a great chucker dog or vice versa a great chucker dog not be a great Cover dog for grouse.

I am sorry if this distracts from the post but I do believe it is relavent.

Not a GSP, but we will let you know how a cover dog bred setter holds up in chukar country in about a year.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:12 pm

Troy08er wrote:Larry Lowell breeds some great hunting dogs and has litters on the ground. That's were Gator dog is from and he's awesome on chukar.My female was also from Larry Bean X Ullie breeding, she was also bird crazy and a great family dog.
A few litters with in a 100 miles.http://www.mdkshorthairs.com/
Ellis justed emailed me and has a few pups B.E. lines. http://landmarkennels.com/

and the Richardson's http://www.prairiewindgsps.com/index.html

Good luck

And you can't leave out Carl Porter...

also Roy (owner of Rockin Rocky) has some good chukar dogs and breeds occasionally from what I've heard. Roy told me Rocky hunted birds last season and passed at 14 this year. Said the dog couldn't hear any more, hunted chukar ranged at 1000 Yds, and was still great even in his last season. In his prime he also won the AKC all breed.
Check out Carl's web page for more on

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:36 pm

From what I've seen your setter should do just fine.

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:40 am

These two are proven chukar dogs that have the feet to handle the chukar country, do very well in the heat and can hunt all day.
Just my personal opinion... is that the whiter colored dogs do better in the heat than the darker dogs.
But I'm basing this on only a few darker colored dogs that we have.

Here's the link

http://westdesertkennel.weebly.com/litters.html

Do you think a good dog bred in the east couldnt make a great chucker dog or vice versa a great chucker dog not be a great Cover dog for grouse

Yes, I have several from "east" that are excellent chukar dogs.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:35 am

I would be very suprized if you got any dog that could give you 100% or even 50% for 7 hrs in 80* weather. I suspect a dog in those condition's learns to pace itself depending on how long it's hunted. I don't know but 7 hrs at 80* would be awful in that terrain! There's not much shade for the dog to get in even if it did help. If the dog goes to much and heats up to bad it could kill the dog.

Is that country out I-8 east of San Diego? That is some really harsh country.

northern cajun · Post by **northern cajun** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:48 am

Garrison wrote:
northern cajun wrote:I must say this really brings up the nature vs nurture question.

Do you think a good dog bred in the east couldnt make a great chucker dog or vice versa a great chucker dog not be a great Cover dog for grouse.

I am sorry if this distracts from the post but I do believe it is relavent.
Not a GSP, but we will let you know how a cover dog bred setter holds up in chukar country in about a year.

I have Shorthairs not setters

Vision · Post by **Vision** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:24 pm

[quote="Dirtysteve"] have the feet to handle the chukar country,

That's the whole key to a chukar hunting dog, the feet. The rocks are killers on dogs feet and the good feet hold up longer in the rocks.

Billinsd · Post by **Billinsd** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:24 pm

DonF wrote:I would be very suprized if you got any dog that could give you 100% or even 50% for 7 hrs in 80* weather. I suspect a dog in those condition's learns to pace itself depending on how long it's hunted. I don't know but 7 hrs at 80* would be awful in that terrain! There's not much shade for the dog to get in even if it did help. If the dog goes to much and heats up to bad it could kill the dog.Is that country out I-8 east of San Diego? That is some really harsh country.

I do not know either. It's really more like 3 hrs at 70 degrees and 4 hrs at 80 plus. My dog was pacing herself. And I had her take breaks too. There is some REALLY cool shade in places. No, it is not east out on I-8 in San Diego, however it looks the same and is similar, at least geologically. Chukar were introduced east on the I-8 in the 50s I think and they did not survive. That place on the I-8 you are thinking about is VERY, VERY knarly. It was in that movie "It's a mad, mad, mad world". In the beginning of the movie when Jimmy Durante is racing away from the police and crashes off the road is on the I-8 you are talking about. The photo is in the Western Mojave, south of Apple Valley

northern cajun wrote:I must say this really brings up the nature vs nurture question. Do you think a good dog bred in the east couldnt make a great chucker dog or vice versa a great chucker dog not be a great Cover dog for grouse. I am sorry if this distracts from the post but I do believe it is relavent.

I think it is possible. However, I believe most breeders, breed their dogs for specific characteristics. The NAVHDA breeders, breed mostly to conform to those requirements, and that is passing their tests, etc. So East versus West NAVHDA GPS breeders' dogs would probably be pretty similar. I do not know anything about pointer field trials, however, I believe those types of dogs would "in general" make better chukar dogs in the Mojave desert than Navhda dogs.

Troy08er · Post by **Troy08er** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:29 pm

ultracarry wrote:
Troy08er wrote:Larry Lowell breeds some great hunting dogs and has litters on the ground. That's were Gator dog is from and he's awesome on chukar.My female was also from Larry Bean X Ullie breeding, she was also bird crazy and a great family dog.
A few litters with in a 100 miles.http://www.mdkshorthairs.com/
Ellis justed emailed me and has a few pups B.E. lines. http://landmarkennels.com/

and the Richardson's http://www.prairiewindgsps.com/index.html

Good luck
And you can't leave out Carl Porter...

also Roy (owner of Rockin Rocky) has some good chukar dogs and breeds occasionally from what I've heard. Roy told me Rocky hunted birds last season and passed at 14 this year. Said the dog couldn't hear any more, hunted chukar ranged at 1000 Yds, and was still great even in his last season. In his prime he also won the AKC all breed.
Check out Carl's web page for more on

I knew you would post them. LOL

Troy08er · Post by **Troy08er** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:30 pm

Vision wrote:
Dirtysteve wrote: have the feet to handle the chukar country,

That's the whole key to a chukar hunting dog, the feet. The rocks are killers on dogs feet and the good feet hold up longer in the rocks.

Lewis dog boots.

Troy08er · Post by **Troy08er** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:33 pm

Dirtysteve wrote:These two are proven chukar dogs that have the feet to handle the chukar country, do very well in the heat and can hunt all day.
Just my personal opinion... is that the whiter colored dogs do better in the heat than the darker dogs.
But I'm basing this on only a few darker colored dogs that we have.

Here's the link

http://westdesertkennel.weebly.com/litters.html

Do you think a good dog bred in the east couldnt make a great chucker dog or vice versa a great chucker dog not be a great Cover dog for grouse
Yes, I have several from "east" that are excellent chukar dogs.

Nice looking pups.

Garrison · Post by **Garrison** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:50 pm

northern cajun wrote:
Garrison wrote:
northern cajun wrote:I must say this really brings up the nature vs nurture question.

Do you think a good dog bred in the east couldnt make a great chucker dog or vice versa a great chucker dog not be a great Cover dog for grouse.

I am sorry if this distracts from the post but I do believe it is relavent.
Not a GSP, but we will let you know how a cover dog bred setter holds up in chukar country in about a year.

I have Shorthairs not setters

Great, I have a setter not a shorthair. That was kind of the point of my post.

gsp3333 · Post by **gsp3333** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:22 pm

The easy answer is just more dogs.

Troy08er · Post by **Troy08er** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:06 pm

Billinsd wrote:This photo shows the typical terrain I like.
Bill

Yikes,what kind of guy likes this terrain?

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:01 pm

I think gait is as important as feet, I think a nice flowing gait takes a lot of the wear and tear out of their feet. But once the snow hits and their pads get soft with moisture its tough not to tear a pad. Just get a Pointer like me!

JK

Vision · Post by **Vision** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:08 am

Elkhunter wrote:I think gait is as important as feet, I think a nice flowing gait takes a lot of the wear and tear out of their feet. But once the snow hits and their pads get soft with moisture its tough not to tear a pad. Just get a Pointer like me! JK

Gait is very important, when I say feet you want a good cat like foot on a light footed dog(gait). I've never seen a dog that does not blow a pad here or there. The best dogs keep right on hunting with blown pads. I'm sure others have seen bloody paw prints in the snow chukar hunting like I have. I've hunted over GSP's, EP, ES, GWP and a couple of britt's and the best all day chukar dogs were the GSP. No quit in them. Of course all day is when you leave the truck and then when you return, not sun up to sun down. I have to define all day so I don't get tore up on here. We had a 7 hour loop in our favorite spot. Of course there were many stops to catch your breath, a half hour rest stop at the end of the ridge for lunch. Sometimes I would fall asleep for a few minutes if the sun was out and the rocks were warm. Nothing like curling up on a rock located on a south facer out of the wind on a January day with a dog curled up next to you. Oh how I love Chukar hunting in January. Those 40* days in the West Desert with the sun shining are just exhilarating. It hurts soooo goooooood the next day.

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:27 am

Its addicting! Beats walking a ditch bank!

c.rhea · Post by **c.rhea** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:52 pm

Billinsd wrote:
Probably dreaming, huh?
Bill

Well, this litter mentioned above was bred with tough chukar terrain in mind. I hunt areas that resemble the picture posted. The sire and dam are both excellent wild bird dogs that are well suited for the extremes of hunting the desert. Good feet, great stamina, powerful noses, excellent gait, and plenty of drive to keep hunting when tired or a little sore. I own the dam and have hunted with the sire and watched him run in trials. He is a great dog.

azquailhntr · Post by **azquailhntr** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:25 pm

New guy here...first post on this site...I am over in AZ. Do you find that GSP's are the best suited for the heat? Everyone over in AZ seem to favor Brittany's. I will be getting a new hunting dog this spring and I am looking for some insight on the heat issue. The new dog will be in the house so will need to switch off...wife is concerned with shedding...main reason I lean away from the Britt's. I have been leaning toward a Pudelpointer but, it is so dang hot out here I'm not sure it will do well.

sorry if this hijacks this thread a little...just looking for some perspective from you guys that are hunting the high, sometimes hot, desert as I will be.

Thanks
AZQ

LarryLowell · Post by **LarryLowell** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:33 pm

IMO the best chukar dogs are dogs in shape, not over fed, have good dark pads, light weight dogs with long legs. Heavier boned dogs will struggle more. Color can play into the hunt on real hot days, but again if your dogs not over fed and not on the family loved feeding program , the dog will perform better. Any dog only hunted once every couple weeks will struggle on a hot day. Also The hotter the day the more water you need to carry. Alot of guys expect their dogs to just suck it up because they don't want to carry the extra weight. My hunts whether it 80 degrees or 50 degrees last as long as the water does. Keep an eye on your dogs feet, and keeping your dogs in shape and making sure they are hydrated and they'll hunt good on a 8 hr hunts.

IMO east or west doesn't make a difference in bloodlines. What make the difference is conditioning. That said its easier for a west coast dog to go east on a hunt and perform as well as the east coast dogs verses an east coast dog to come west and perform at the same level as the west coast dog, But then again that's conditioning. And I'm talking hunting Chukar.

Larry Lowell

dead mike · Post by **dead mike** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:51 pm

give Wrangler Kennels a look

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:49 am

LarryLowell wrote:IMO the best chukar dogs are dogs in shape, not over fed, have good dark pads, light weight dogs with long legs. Heavier boned dogs will struggle more. Color can play into the hunt on real hot days, but again if your dogs not over fed and not on the family loved feeding program , the dog will perform better. Any dog only hunted once every couple weeks will struggle on a hot day. Also The hotter the day the more water you need to carry. Alot of guys expect their dogs to just suck it up because they don't want to carry the extra weight. My hunts whether it 80 degrees or 50 degrees last as long as the water does. Keep an eye on your dogs feet, and keeping your dogs in shape and making sure they are hydrated and they'll hunt good on a 8 hr hunts.

IMO east or west doesn't make a difference in bloodlines. What make the difference is conditioning. That said its easier for a west coast dog to go east on a hunt and perform as well as the east coast dogs verses an east coast dog to come west and perform at the same level as the west coast dog, But then again that's conditioning. And I'm talking hunting Chukar.

Larry Lowell

Do you people really breed dogs that will go hard for eight hours in eighty degree heat. Wish we could get that in our sled dogs. In -20. CJ

LarryLowell · Post by **LarryLowell** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:31 pm

My buddys and i have hunted a single dog each ages 3-7 years old all GSPs in Washington and Idaho along the snake river from Pullman to Brown Lee Resivor , hunting Pheasant, Chukar, Huns , and Quail for a week straight, 8 plus hours a day, and the dog handled it. Sure the dogs were sore after the 3rd or 4th day, but when we dropped the tailgate to hunt each day the dogs did what they needed to do.

I'm not saying these dog ran full speed like they were in a field trial. These dogs were seasoned hunting dogs that covered ground, but yes they handle 80 degree heat on some of those day as well as rain, hail and snow.

I live in the California Mohave desert and hunt on average in 30 to 90 degree heat. I start at first light, maybe around 6:00am and a half day hunt is stopping at noon, a full day to 3:00-or until dark. Hydration is the key, as well as being in shape.

But again I'm not saying they run full speed like a field trial dog would. If the dog did he would be done in a couple hours, but my dogs arent boot lickin either.

When we pheasant hunt down in el centro in 80 plus degrees sometime I. The 90s we hunt from 8:00 to dark. Dogs well get a break between fields or maybe for an hour or two when we break for lunch, but we hunt until dark for pheasant, most of the time I'll bring one dog sometime two if they are young.

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