conibear traps

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:28 pm

As long as they don't start using gamebirds for bait, the dog can be trained.

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:12 pm

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:Teaching a dog to avoid a smell that's also associated with sight will not hurt it's hunting ability. If it did then all of the dogs who've been through snake breaking wouldn't hunt.

The smell youre talking about IS Food.
You think you can teach your dog not to eat unsupervised while hes out hunting?
What about bait sets that use dead rabbits, duck, Fish Oil, squirrel or other critters?

Please be aware that A snake isnt food...like Sardines, peanut butter, fish Oil, meat and blood is and is used for a bait set too.
Do you understand that impossibility of this whole 'break the dog off of snifing food'? He doesnt have to eat it, just stop to smell it, and its too late, hes caught. Thats HOW traps work. I used to trap & set Cubby and dirt hole sets, some conibears for muskrat too.

K9 trainers say its the hardest thing to train, and even then the dog will never be reliable.
Im talking World class trainers and competitors who own very expensive dogs & Spent their lives training them for a living.

Youre asking the impossible, talking hypthetically, not to mention that a Snare has NO food associated with it, its on a game trail and just as deadly as anything else.

The only thing that will work is not butting heads with both seasons being open.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:57 am

What your failing to understand is that the dog sees the trap alsso and tHats what hurts him
If you ever seen how some dogs go after snakes, it's more of an attractant than most food. You can change both behaviors.

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:14 am

Brazosvalleyvizslas wrote:What your failing to understand is that the dog sees the trap alsso and tHats what hurts him

Only In a few cases, like a bad trapper sets a poor set.
1. The dog may see the conibear set, but its made to looks like sticks...made TO look-natural.
2. In a foot hold set, dog sees nothing, trap is buried in the ground, food is in a hole.
3. In a Trail Snare-dog sees Nothing, looks natural, and is designed to, its HOW traps work and WHY they work.

If you ever seen how some dogs go after snakes, it's more of an attractant than most food. You can change both behaviors.

Snake, you can because its an animal.
Traps, from good trappers have little to no scent on them, They are free of scent.
They are Baited WITH Food or Fish Oil.

You cannot nor will not break a dog from investigating.
The most wary of creatures, even trap wise ones, still succumb To traps. So will any dog.

No offense, but you are asking the impossible, and dont understand trapping or canine behavior.

Only altering the trapping season will work by starting it late and extending it pst hunting season.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:57 am

Seems to me that both of you are forgetting to post "in my opinion" and instead are telling each other what the facts are, which neither of you believe. Why not just drop it since you are not convincing anyone and you have alreay stated your opinion.

Ezzy

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:17 am

ezzy333 wrote:Seems to me that both of you are forgetting to post "in my opinion" and instead are telling each other what the facts are, which neither of you believe. Why not just drop it since you are not convincing anyone and you have alreay stated your opinion.

Ezzy

Im generally stating facts, Ezzy.
I speak from experience, as I used TO Trap, coons and muskrat, and occasional foxes.

Trappers know that traps are to be coated with beeswax, which covers the scent of the metal. I and others took great care to not transfer human scent by way of wax, gloves, age.
I ordered mine from dealers in Fur, Fish & Game.

Traps generally have little to no scent, if they did, the wary creatures wouldnt get caught.
If you doubt me, rad this Coyote Trapping Page- It discusses how to scent free your traps.

http://www.foremostcoyotehunting.com/p/ ... yotes.html

''One thing you must be critically aware of when setting traps is scent elimination.
If any smell of you is present, the coyotes will stay way away.
They have EXTREMELY keen noses and their sense of smell is without peer in the animal kingdom. When you buy traps, they're usually shiny, silver-like steel or equal.
You don't want that. What you want to do is literally dye the traps black or charcoal.
And if you cannot afford dye (don't you dare laugh - -lots of folks – me included - - have to watch every penny, and if I can save you a buck, I'm going to do so), bury your new traps in oak, maple or any big pattern tree leaves, and let the traps age for six months to a year (just like fine wine or prime beef - -only this time you're the "executive chef trapper").
The "aging" will turn the traps rusty and/or brown from the elements, and leaf and litter seepage. And you're still Not done, yet!
After you clean off the aged and now properly colored traps, prepare a large, sturdy pot of water, and put a good amount of paraffin wax in the water. The wax will dissolve in the boiling water. Dip your traps in that hot, boiling pot of water and paraffin, and voila - -your traps will be not only be waterproof, but they'll be Scent free, and also very "quick."

Trappers read this thread about training dogs to avoid bait & traps, and laugh their behinds off.
And of course, My disclaimer- In my opinion.

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:18 am

Duplicate

Post by **slistoe** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:23 am

Rockstar, you are kidding yourself. Everything smells like something. You cannot make a trap scent free. All you hope to do is make it smell like something that does not have an associated fear response in the animal you wish to trap. But don't try to convince a bunch of old trappers that - they don't want to think about stuff they just want to do it and "scent free" works for them and when it doesn't, masking scents and competition (marking) scents might.
Anyway, you can believe what you want, but I believe it is possible to teach a dog not to eat/pick up anything that you do not hand to them. Whether you are paranoid enough about losing an animal in a conibear trap set to make it worth the time and effort or not is up to you, but "impossible" - no.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:36 am

ezzy333 wrote:Seems to me that both of you are forgetting to post "in my opinion" and instead are telling each other what the facts are, which neither of you believe. Why not just drop it since you are not convincing anyone and you have alreay stated your opinion.

Ezzy

Really Ezzy how many times do you use that phrase yourself?

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:53 am

nikegundog wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:Seems to me that both of you are forgetting to post "in my opinion" and instead are telling each other what the facts are, which neither of you believe. Why not just drop it since you are not convincing anyone and you have alreay stated your opinion.

Ezzy
Really Ezzy how many times do you use that phrase yourself?

When I post something that is an opinion of mine and not something we learned in experiences of others or in research and tests. And like everyone else I forget sometimes. But when two people have said the same thing several times and are starting to call each other names it just seems sensible to move on. Now does that make you feel better. In my opinion it should.

Merry Christmas

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:06 pm

slistoe wrote:Rockstar, you are kidding yourself. .

Actually, Im not.
IMO, serious trappers know more than you will ever know about scent. What little I know, comes from them and my own experience trapping years ago for money.
Human Scent can be masked, washed, Boiled to remove scent, Then dyed, Waxed, aged and then buried.. so the most wary of animals will not detect it.

Everything smells like something.

Not if its washed, waxed, aged & then buried.
Even IED drug detection dogs, costing tens of thousands of dollars and months/years of training and reinforcement training weekly, FAIL.

You cannot make a trap scent free.

You most certainly can with enough care-good trappers start descenting their traps 6-8 months out.

All you hope to do is make it smell like something that does not have an associated fear response in the animal you wish to trap

.
Im talking foot hold traps (Buried) or snares-hidden-they have little to no scent.

But don't try to convince a bunch of old trappers that - they don't want to think about stuff they just want to do it and "scent free" works for them and when it doesn't, masking scents and competition (marking) scents might.

Big time Govt trappers make their living catching wise animals, some aniamals targeted are missing toes from previous experiences, that dont want to be caught, and They still catch them.
And you honestly think you can teach a brittany/dog whose hunting, out of sight, to avoid these intentional Food/bait/ trail set ups?'

Traps should be boiled and dipped in wax.
The boiling takes away any previous scent, while the wax helps prevent rusting of the leg hold trap.
Conditioned traps should be stored in a container “sprinkled” with cedar and coniferous boughs like spruce and balsam for months prior to season. This keeps the traps, drags, and attachments as natural as possible.

Mr Bray does not use gloves when placing the traps. He simply uses Castile soap, or other hypoallergenic kinds available in grocery stores, when washing before setting. He also rubs cedar and spruce on his hands while handling the traps. If gloves are used the same precautions must be used with them because they can and will carry unwanted scent.

Anyway, you can believe what you want, but I believe it is possible to teach a dog not to eat/pick up anything that you do not hand to them. Whether you are paranoid enough about losing an animal in a conibear trap set to make it worth the time and effort or not is up to you, but "impossible" - no.

I dont disagree with you, BUT you will Never PROOF That dog 100%, and it only takes one time with a large 330 conibear trap.

It is MUCH easier to amend the Trapping season so it does Not coincide with Hunting season.

FENCES are basically Steel wire...
Dogs smell them ALL The Time, While Hunting. Our guns are steel. Proofing steel is next to impossible.
The steel smell of a trap, IF even detectable after curing, waxing, burying, smells much the same as other steel if it smells at all.
You literally ask the impossible for but the dedicated and accomplished dog trainer, AND Brightest of Dogs, and perfect scenting scenario.

* Slistoe,
To make a point, Id be willing to bet you, that I could make a bait set for your dogs walked towards in a small hunting area, that would catch him (Small #1 padded foothold so hes not harmed badly), after you release him unsupervised to hunt on an empy stomach, and with no commands or directives as a warning.
You can train all you like, and let me know when youre ready.

dead mike · Post by **dead mike** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:42 pm

Rockstar, i know two trappers that trap with their dogs with them, they know not to get in the traps.

Werner Herzog has a great documentary called Happy People, they follow Russian trappers who go out for 6 month stretches and trap. They all have a husky with them, their dogs are trained not to get in the traps, they also hunt for the trappers. No problem for those guys to train their dogs to avoid traps, cant see why it would be hard for us here?

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:15 pm

It is MUCH easier to amend the Trapping season so it does Not coincide with Hunting season.

So, how do you amend the seasons? Do you close up upland bird hunting two weeks earlier, or do the trappers take the blunt of the hit? Just wondering, it was -10F degrees here when I walked my dog this morning, makes it pretty tough using water sets.

RyanGSP · Post by **RyanGSP** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:00 pm

slistoe wrote:Rockstar, you are kidding yourself. Everything smells like something. You cannot make a trap scent free. All you hope to do is make it smell like something that does not have an associated fear response in the animal you wish to trap. But don't try to convince a bunch of old trappers that - they don't want to think about stuff they just want to do it and "scent free" works for them and when it doesn't, masking scents and competition (marking) scents might.
Anyway, you can believe what you want, but I believe it is possible to teach a dog not to eat/pick up anything that you do not hand to them. Whether you are paranoid enough about losing an animal in a conibear trap set to make it worth the time and effort or not is up to you, but "impossible" - no.

All he has to do is go in for a sniff. Doesnt have to eat it.

Post by **slistoe** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:15 pm

Rockstar wrote: * Slistoe,
To make a point, Id be willing to bet you, that I could make a bait set for your dogs walked towards in a small hunting area, that would catch him (Small #1 padded foothold so hes not harmed badly), after you release him unsupervised to hunt on an empy stomach, and with no commands or directives as a warning.
You can train all you like, and let me know when youre ready.

Hey, I can make a set that will catch my dogs - and yours too. And I would use a #3 double long spring and wouldn't be the least bit worried about it hurting my dog. But as I said earlier, I really am not that concerned with the possibility of encountering traps while I am out hunting to bother with teaching the dogs to ignore food.
PS - all the pontificating about scentless traps is immaterial to the point - the point I was making was to teach the dog to ignore all food except that which comes directly from the hand of the trainer. Whether you want to believe it possible or not is up to you, but I have it on good authority that it was the very first thing that all dogs learned when coming north to the prairies and the only thing that allowed them to go home in the fall. Strychnine was slightly more deadly than a 220 Conibear

Post by **slistoe** » Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:34 pm

RyanGSP wrote:
slistoe wrote:Rockstar, you are kidding yourself. Everything smells like something. You cannot make a trap scent free. All you hope to do is make it smell like something that does not have an associated fear response in the animal you wish to trap. But don't try to convince a bunch of old trappers that - they don't want to think about stuff they just want to do it and "scent free" works for them and when it doesn't, masking scents and competition (marking) scents might.
Anyway, you can believe what you want, but I believe it is possible to teach a dog not to eat/pick up anything that you do not hand to them. Whether you are paranoid enough about losing an animal in a conibear trap set to make it worth the time and effort or not is up to you, but "impossible" - no.

All he has to do is go in for a sniff. Doesnt have to eat it.

This is just going around in circles. The crux of the matter is that we have a group of sportsmen engaging in a legitimate and legal sporting activity and we have other sportsmen who want to ban their tools, burden them with unreasonable rules or adjust their operating seasons ( you really trapped Rockstar? - with that little of an understanding of the timing of trapping seasons? ) With attitudes like this we do not need PETA and their ilk to do in the blood sports.

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:26 am

dead mike wrote:Rockstar, i know two trappers that trap with their dogs with them, they know not to get in the traps.

Werner Herzog has a great documentary called Happy People, they follow Russian trappers who go out for 6 month stretches and trap. They all have a husky with them, their dogs are trained not to get in the traps, they also hunt for the trappers. No problem for those guys to train their dogs to avoid traps, cant see why it would be hard for us here?

The dogs dont leave the TRAIL to WHERE the Traps are set.

I used to also take along my GSP and German Shepherd on my trapline. They did the same thing as any husky.
The command is called STAY. Its not real tough.

I didnt want my dogs scent near my traps, it wasnt hard to train them to stay with my gear ON the Trail before going into the brush/culvert for my trap set.

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:30 am

nikegundog wrote:
It is MUCH easier to amend the Trapping season so it does Not coincide with Hunting season.
So, how do you amend the seasons? Do you close up upland bird hunting two weeks earlier, or do the trappers take the blunt of the hit? Just wondering, it was -10F degrees here when I walked my dog this morning, makes it pretty tough using water sets.

You work with DNR, and lobby your state representatives, same as Deer Trackers did to allow legislation for dogs to be used as blood trackers did.

I would ask the trapping season begins in the North in the late Nov/Dec months and extend them into early Spring perhaps.

Fur is prime now as well.
Trapping is not widely practiced, but with this economy and fur prices what they are, it may be revitatlized somewhat, but its become a lost art. They have no real voice in the state, I dont see them objecting to a change (Depayed start with prolonged season into winter/spring) to accomodate hunters.

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:33 am

slistoe wrote:
RyanGSP wrote:
slistoe wrote:Rockstar, you are kidding yourself. Everything smells like something. You cannot make a trap scent free. All you hope to do is make it smell like something that does not have an associated fear response in the animal you wish to trap. But don't try to convince a bunch of old trappers that - they don't want to think about stuff they just want to do it and "scent free" works for them and when it doesn't, masking scents and competition (marking) scents might.
Anyway, you can believe what you want, but I believe it is possible to teach a dog not to eat/pick up anything that you do not hand to them. Whether you are paranoid enough about losing an animal in a conibear trap set to make it worth the time and effort or not is up to you, but "impossible" - no.

All he has to do is go in for a sniff. Doesnt have to eat it.
This is just going around in circles. The crux of the matter is that we have a group of sportsmen engaging in a legitimate and legal sporting activity and we have other sportsmen who want to ban their tools, burden them with unreasonable rules or adjust their operating seasons ( you really trapped Rockstar? - with that little of an understanding of the timing of trapping seasons? ) With attitudes like this we do not need PETA and their ilk to do in the blood sports.

Hunters dont want Trapping Banned, just have the Trap season extended with a late start so the 2 dont coincide.
Its not circles, its common sense. And its not burdening anyone. Theyr season starts 2 months later if on or near land. So what?

Yes, I trapped as a Teenage Kid-I had 2 dozen legholds and 110 conibears.
I know more about it than you will ever know, as I actually did it.
At the time, Coons brought in $30 Prime, rats about $7-8. Good money 25 years ago for a kid.

I waited until hunt season was close to over and set my traps near creeks/culverts, edges of cornfields.
I Caught occasional feral cats and skunks, but never any dogs.

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:38 am

slistoe wrote:
Rockstar wrote: * Slistoe,
To make a point, Id be willing to bet you, that I could make a bait set for your dogs walked towards in a small hunting area, that would catch him (Small #1 padded foothold so hes not harmed badly), after you release him unsupervised to hunt on an empy stomach, and with no commands or directives as a warning.
You can train all you like, and let me know when youre ready.
Hey, I can make a set that will catch my dogs - and yours too. And I would use a #3 double long spring and wouldn't be the least bit worried about it hurting my dog. But as I said earlier, I really am not that concerned with the possibility of encountering traps while I am out hunting to bother with teaching the dogs to ignore food.
PS - all the pontificating about scentless traps is immaterial to the point - the point I was making was to teach the dog to ignore all food except that which comes directly from the hand of the trainer. Whether you want to believe it possible or not is up to you, but I have it on good authority that it was the very first thing that all dogs learned when coming north to the prairies and the only thing that allowed them to go home in the fall. Strychnine was slightly more deadly than a 220 Conibear

Trappers use a 'Confidence Set' where there is little or No Bait/Food, but instead URINE (Fox or Coyote), near a fence post for example, and traps near the post.

So now Youre going to train your dog not to smell markings of other dogs now too?

Post by **slistoe** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:05 am

Rockstar wrote: Yes, I trapped as a Teenage Kid-I had 2 dozen legholds and 110 conibears.
I know more about it than you will ever know, as I actually did it.
At the time, Coons brought in $30 Prime, rats about $7-8. Good money 25 years ago for a kid.

I waited until hunt season was close to over and set my traps near creeks/culverts, edges of cornfields.
I Caught occasional feral cats and skunks, but never any dogs.

You assume too much. All I will say is that 2 dozen traps is what I set out as a 10 year old.

Meller · Post by **Meller** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:36 am

I don't care if it is legal; its responsability that I'm after, because that is what is asked of me, I'll leave your trap alone and you pay for my dog and vet bills if it survives and if it doesn't survive, dog and training cost and replacement of dog. Fair enough being I just lost my best friend!

Post by **topher40** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:01 am

Meller you have to be kidding. Are you going to ask or even worse, sue the landowner if your dog jumps off a steep imbankment, runs into the barwire fence/ gets trampled by their bull? A dog getting caught in a trap is part of the risk of hunting. I wouldnt pay you a dime if your dog got caught in my trap and if you pushed the issue I would countersue you for lost income since your dog set my trap, and riddled the area with scent which cost me money for lost furs.

Post by **slistoe** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:06 am

Responsibility is a two way street.
Who pays for your dog when its guts are spilled on the snow by barb wire?
Who pays for your dog when it is impaled on a broken stick?
Who pays for your dog when a wolf/coyote/porcupine/coon causes it grievous harm?

Traps are no more an unusual or unexpected risk than any other thing that can cause our dogs harm.
Keep your dog at heel in the field and feel that your investment is safe.

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:02 pm

slistoe wrote:
Rockstar wrote: Yes, I trapped as a Teenage Kid-I had 2 dozen legholds and 110 conibears.
I know more about it than you will ever know, as I actually did it.
At the time, Coons brought in $30 Prime, rats about $7-8. Good money 25 years ago for a kid.

I waited until hunt season was close to over and set my traps near creeks/culverts, edges of cornfields.
I Caught occasional feral cats and skunks, but never any dogs.
You assume too much. All I will say is that 2 dozen traps is what I set out as a 10 year old.

I owned roughly 2 dozen leg hold and 2 dozen conibear traps.
I couldnt yet drive...all my trapping was within walking distance of my home. I covered close to 1000 acres & Checked them daily as I was required to, whether in -20 or 20 and 2 feet of snow such as we had in the 1976 Blizzard.

I presume if you couldnt drive either, than 25-50 traps is about right.

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:04 pm

slistoe wrote:Responsibility is a two way street.
Who pays for your dog when its guts are spilled on the snow by barb wire?
Who pays for your dog when it is impaled on a broken stick?
Who pays for your dog when a wolf/coyote/porcupine/coon causes it grievous harm?

Traps are no more an unusual or unexpected risk than any other thing that can cause our dogs harm.
Keep your dog at heel in the field and feel that your investment is safe.

Conibears and Trail Snares are designed to Kill, effectively, silently and without warning (If not posted)...getting cut by a fence or quilled by a Porky, is like apples to oranges.

I vest my dog to avoid a stick impalement or barb wire cutting, and try to keep dogs in sight to avoid packing by coyotes, though thats a minor concern-mostly nocturnal night predators around here and presence is scattered at best.

And Why Heel your dog in the field? We are there to hunt, not do obedience.

The only solution is to amend the season... real simple.

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:07 pm

topher40 wrote:Meller you have to be kidding. Are you going to ask or even worse, sue the landowner if your dog jumps off a steep imbankment, runs into the barwire fence/ gets trampled by their bull? A dog getting caught in a trap is part of the risk of hunting. I wouldnt pay you a dime if your dog got caught in my trap and if you pushed the issue I would countersue you for lost income since your dog set my trap, and riddled the area with scent which cost me money for lost furs.

What if its YOUR Land that is being trapped?
In some states, trappers can post on YOUR land...legally with or without your permission-abatements etc.

Trappers should post Trapping Signs near entrance/exit, high volume areas to alert hunters.

This also should be a requirement imo, until the seasons do not coincide.

RyanGSP · Post by **RyanGSP** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:11 pm

topher40 wrote:Meller you have to be kidding. Are you going to ask or even worse, sue the landowner if your dog jumps off a steep imbankment, runs into the barwire fence/ gets trampled by their bull? A dog getting caught in a trap is part of the risk of hunting. I wouldnt pay you a dime if your dog got caught in my trap and if you pushed the issue I would countersue you for lost income since your dog set my trap, and riddled the area with scent which cost me money for lost furs.

Good luck winning that one. If its public property and the owner had permission to be there you would be SOL. Im not saying you would have to replace the dog but you wouldnt win your case. If he was tresspassing it may be an easier win.

Not to mention you would need to prove that exact trap was producing X amount of furs the time it was out and it stopped producing because of the dog and bot say a wolf or coyote that pissed on/near it.

If I ever come across a conibear it will be tripped. Id rather deal with a fine than a lost dog or hearing of somone else loosing it.

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:40 pm

RyanGSP wrote:
topher40 wrote:Meller you have to be kidding. Are you going to ask or even worse, sue the landowner if your dog jumps off a steep imbankment, runs into the barwire fence/ gets trampled by their bull? A dog getting caught in a trap is part of the risk of hunting. I wouldnt pay you a dime if your dog got caught in my trap and if you pushed the issue I would countersue you for lost income since your dog set my trap, and riddled the area with scent which cost me money for lost furs.

Good luck winning that one. If its public property and the owner had permission to be there you would be SOL. Im not saying you would have to replace the dog but you wouldnt win your case. If he was tresspassing it may be an easier win.

Not to mention you would need to prove that exact trap was producing X amount of furs the time it was out and it stopped producing because of the dog and bot say a wolf or coyote that pissed on/near it.

If I ever come across a conibear it will be tripped. Id rather deal with a fine than a lost dog or hearing of somone else loosing it.

Ryan,

Generally, Conibears are designated for water sets. This isnt always the case, but it should be.
Were I to find one on a land set, I would also spring it with a stick.

Snares are a different matter altogether and equally as dangerous for a dog, take about 1 minute to kill by strangulation.
All these guys with their 800 yd dogs couldnt even make it to save the dog in that time if he got snared.

Post by **slistoe** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:30 pm

Rockstar wrote:Trappers should post Trapping Signs near entrance/exit, high volume areas to alert hunters.

You really think this is a good idea

RyanGSP wrote: If I ever come across a conibear it will be tripped. Id rather deal with a fine than a lost dog or hearing of somone else loosing it.

Rockstar wrote:Were I to find one on a land set, I would also spring it with a stick.

A dumb idea, I say. Too many self absorbed, morally corrupt folks within the hunting community let alone those whose expressed intent is to kill off hunting sports, incrementally, till none exist.

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:55 pm

slistoe wrote:
Rockstar wrote:Trappers should post Trapping Signs near entrance/exit, high volume areas to alert hunters.
You really think this is a good idea
RyanGSP wrote: If I ever come across a conibear it will be tripped. Id rather deal with a fine than a lost dog or hearing of somone else loosing it.

Rockstar wrote:Were I to find one on a land set, I would also spring it with a stick.
A dumb idea, I say. Too many self absorbed, morally corrupt folks within the hunting community let alone those whose expressed intent is to kill off hunting sports, incrementally, till none exist.

Just as Gun ranges are MARKED, including Bow ranges on Pblic lands, so should trapping be imo.

Where did I ever say I favor killing off hunting sports?
I favor seperate seasons is all so the 2 dont coincide.. Its not that difficult to understand the difference.

The fact that you would walk by and leave a Land Conibear Trap for another dog to stumble upon, says something about you. The readers can decide for themselves just what that is.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:04 pm

Rockstar wrote:
RyanGSP wrote:
topher40 wrote:Meller you have to be kidding. Are you going to ask or even worse, sue the landowner if your dog jumps off a steep imbankment, runs into the barwire fence/ gets trampled by their bull? A dog getting caught in a trap is part of the risk of hunting. I wouldnt pay you a dime if your dog got caught in my trap and if you pushed the issue I would countersue you for lost income since your dog set my trap, and riddled the area with scent which cost me money for lost furs.

Good luck winning that one. If its public property and the owner had permission to be there you would be SOL. Im not saying you would have to replace the dog but you wouldnt win your case. If he was tresspassing it may be an easier win.

Not to mention you would need to prove that exact trap was producing X amount of furs the time it was out and it stopped producing because of the dog and bot say a wolf or coyote that pissed on/near it.

If I ever come across a conibear it will be tripped. Id rather deal with a fine than a lost dog or hearing of somone else loosing it.
Ryan,

Generally, Conibears are designated for water sets. This isnt always the case, but it should be.
Were I to find one on a land set, I would also spring it with a stick.

Snares are a different matter altogether and equally as dangerous for a dog, take about 1 minute to kill by strangulation.
All these guys with their 800 yd dogs couldnt even make it to save the dog in that time if he got snared.

rockstar,most of time or all time when dog gets in snare, he just stands there with it around neck.i have seen deer with snares around their neck.not to say that maybe a dog could choke but they dont.snare does not seem to be pulled that tight.
this is why i like garmin alpha. you can find your dog quick.
i also bought tool from ron to remove a conibear trap .

rabbit hunters hate conibears as their beagles hunt swampy areas after rabbits.

dead mike · Post by **dead mike** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:07 pm

my dog was in a snare three years ago, i got there after about 3mins of yelping, it was sunk in deep, real deep. The dog was in panick mode and i was lucky to have been close by at the time, she usually ranges pretty far

RyanGSP · Post by **RyanGSP** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:10 pm

dead mike wrote:my dog was in a snare three years ago, i got there after about 3mins of yelping, it was sunk in deep, real deep. The dog was in panick mode and i was lucky to have been close by at the time, she usually ranges pretty far

In a conibear your dog would have been dead in 3 minutes.

Meller · Post by **Meller** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:17 pm

There is not one bird hunter that I know of that doese'nt want to see these egg &bird eater's thined out, we just want it to be done responsibly( without Conibers on land)they were not designed to be set on land but rather to be a water set. And I don't want to get in what I would do, but I've got a trap from my last dog caught hanging in my front yard, no one has claimed it yet.

Post by **slistoe** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:19 pm

RyanGSP wrote:
dead mike wrote:my dog was in a snare three years ago, i got there after about 3mins of yelping, it was sunk in deep, real deep. The dog was in panick mode and i was lucky to have been close by at the time, she usually ranges pretty far

In a conibear your dog would have been dead in 3 minutes.

Or not. Have you trapped animals with them? I can tell you that with a 220 conibear it is unlikely that they will be killed instantly, although it is possible. The other scenario is that windpipe will be crushed causing them to asphyxiate but given the head size on most field dogs this is also an unlikely scenario. The third scenario is that they will be gripped tightly across the head and be held immobile - most animals will not fight to pull out for very long.
I am not sure if 330 conibears are legal for land sets anywhere (they aren't here so you don't need to worry about them Ryan) so they aren't the issue.

RyanGSP · Post by **RyanGSP** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:41 pm

Meller wrote:There is not one bird hunter that I know of that doese'nt want to see these egg &bird eater's thined out, we just want it to be done responsibly( without Conibers on land)they were not designed to be set on land but rather to be a water set. And I don't want to get in what I would do, but I've got a trap from my last dog caught hanging in my front yard, no one has claimed it yet.

Amen.

If a 220 will kill a dog i worry about those too. Land or water I would like to see them out of the field until the end of bird season.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:56 pm

ssshhhh....I'll very quietly say this and withdraw.
I bought a #220 conibear to practice on.
I gave it to a buddy to practice or I would measure but I believe it was 7"X7" with the corner to corner, of course, greater.
A 40# english setter head will fit easily....as will other somewhat larger birddogs.
Oh...and 3 minutes is optimistic.
......ssshhhhh.

dead mike · Post by **dead mike** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:12 pm

RyanGSP wrote:
dead mike wrote:my dog was in a snare three years ago, i got there after about 3mins of yelping, it was sunk in deep, real deep. The dog was in panick mode and i was lucky to have been close by at the time, she usually ranges pretty far

In a conibear your dog would have been dead in 3 minutes.

My bros DD got caught in a conibear 220 set up for lynx. He had on two nylon collars and hes 80lbs. Lived through it like nothing happened. Luckily my bro was 4 mins away and the two collars helped. Its luck of the draw i think sometimes

Rockstar · Post by **Rockstar** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:03 pm

Why did the MOD remove photos of HUNTING and Trial dogs killed in Conibears used for the purpose of discussion here by me?

It this place is run by Marxist Bolsheviks, Im disabling my account.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:29 pm

Rockstar wrote:Why did the MOD remove photos of HUNTING and Trial dogs killed in Conibears used for the purpose of discussion here by me?

Because they should have been removed.
I made it clear where I stand on some traps and some who set traps but your last photo post was idiotic, immature, crude and served no purpose whatsoever past some personal need.
Grow up, get some commonsense or move on.
I would have locked the thread.

Thornapple · Post by **Thornapple** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:22 am

Jim, Mountaineer, and all; thanks for the tips and advice on the effects of trapping and suggested solutions.
I read your notes principally because I am moving further and further into back country seeking grouse and woodcock across the northern states. There are multiple reasons why after 60 years of hunting I find this necessary, but this is where my dogs and I now hunt. An issue that I have always worried about but up until now have done nothing is being prepared for the trap! I know as a grouse hunter this has been more than foolish. I did take your advice Jim and looked at the video and some others. In fact I am going to share this information with other bird hunters and dog owners that are not part of this forum to make sure they are "heads up"!
With many hurting due to the economy many are turning to trapping to supplement their income. In discussing this with members of several state DNR departments trapping (legal and illegal) is on the rise across the Country. It is necessary for anyone in my mind if they are just walking their dogs in the Appalachians, UP, Poconos, Connecticut Lakes, Adirondacks, Boundary Waters, or up in the Rangeley Lakes to be familiar with not only what to do if and when their pet is trapped, but how to quickly and efficiently release their dog.
Again thanks for your collective advice, Thornapple

Rod W · Post by **Rod W** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:27 pm

I used to trap extensively with all types of traps--this was before I learned how much fun bird hunting with pointers is! I, regretfully have caught, in conibears a few dogs, released one and buried one. I will state emphatically THESE TRAPS SHOULD BE OUTLAWED ON DRY LAND, EVERYWHERE !! When grouse hunting with my GWP, I have released her from a #3 Victor's leghold trap non the worse for wear, altho I was right there when she was caught!

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:22 am

I've snared hundreds of coyotes and even after being in the trap for hours not one of them died. Some of them were tired and obviously had struggled but the only animal I snared that died was a fox that was using a fence to get some chickens. I knew when I set the snare that he would hang himself but it was my last option.

Let's not over dramatize traps. Connie's maybe,snares, NO.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:29 am

Thornapple wrote:Jim, Mountaineer, and all; thanks for the tips and advice on the effects of trapping and suggested solutions.
I read your notes principally because I am moving further and further into back country seeking grouse and woodcock across the northern states. There are multiple reasons why after 60 years of hunting I find this necessary, but this is where my dogs and I now hunt. An issue that I have always worried about but up until now have done nothing is being prepared for the trap! I know as a grouse hunter this has been more than foolish. I did take your advice Jim and looked at the video and some others. In fact I am going to share this information with other bird hunters and dog owners that are not part of this forum to make sure they are "heads up"!
With many hurting due to the economy many are turning to trapping to supplement their income. In discussing this with members of several state DNR departments trapping (legal and illegal) is on the rise across the Country. It is necessary for anyone in my mind if they are just walking their dogs in the Appalachians, UP, Poconos, Connecticut Lakes, Adirondacks, Boundary Waters, or up in the Rangeley Lakes to be familiar with not only what to do if and when their pet is trapped, but how to quickly and efficiently release their dog.
Again thanks for your collective advice, Thornapple

the tool that ron makes is very good.i gave it to friend to use while trapping this week. you can use your dog leash also on conibear up too 220 but its little harder than rons tool.
his tool is quick and you can use 1 hand to use it.
all traps being set in my area are along any road that the trappers can use to SEE traps .
so best advice is to hunt your dog back in areas off the roads.

i also carry a pair of cable snips incase if whiskers gets into snare that i cant release, i can cut it off.but most snares you can release unless dog tries to bite you.
most dogs just stand there with cable around their neck.

Brazosvalleyvizslas · Post by **Brazosvalleyvizslas** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:08 am

If they try to bite just throw your jacket or shirt over their head and they will lay still.

MHWH · Post by **MHWH** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:20 pm

Slistoe,

So you think because these traps are legal, and trapping is done legally that if someones dog is killed by one of your traps
it is what did you write, "tough tittie."

I can not understand how you think it is OK is one of your traps kills some ones dog. It is not like barbed wire or the other things you mentioned. The fence is to keep live stock in an area. They don't bait it so animals are attracted to it, like your traps.

Putting these things up in trees, or using signs, but some thing should be done so that you enjoying your legal activity does not
cause harm or death to my dog while I enjoy a legal activity. How can that be "tough tittie" to you.

I can guarantee you would not say that to me, face to face, if one of your traps had harmed or killed one of my dogs. I won't go into details, but you would not do that to me, trust me.

Mike

Post by **slistoe** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:25 pm

Whatever.
Please give me the details so I can worry all night about it.

Some folks worry about their dog in barb wire - it is darn near everywhere. The teach their dog to avoid it.
Some folks worry about their dog and vehicles - they are darn near everywhere else. They teach their dog to avoid them.
Some folks worry about their dog and coyotes/porcupines - they really are everywhere. They teach their dog to avoid them.

Simple picture, really.

MHWH · Post by **MHWH** » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:00 am

Slistoe,

I apologize for my last comment. As I re-read it, it sounds like a threat. I was upset with the whole thing.
Let's leave the details at I have been around a bit.

I still don't understand how you can have this attitude. The analogies of barbed wire, cars, porkies are not
at all the same. These traps are baited with things that would attract other animals. They then will attract
a dog. No dog training is 100% perfect all the time. No matter what dog guys do the dog could still get killed by
something you do.

I believe you have a responsibility that goes along with the privilege/right you have to be a trapper. I was a competitive shooter in the past. It comes with responsibilities. Gun safety being the most important one. I drive a car. I have responsibility to do so in a manner that does not endanger others. All privileges/rights come with responsibilities. It is always that way, and should be. It is amazingly insensitive, and many times illegal, to handle it any other way.

I think the signs, or putting the traps up in a tree are good ideas. I don't know the perfect solution. I do know your enjoying your out door activity should not cause someone else to pay the high price of losing or injuring their dog. How would you feel about it if bird hunters took all your traps, or did something to cause you great harm as part of their hunting? Maybe that is something we could start with. Public land, I find and take all the traps I can find. Private land, the same, if the owner has not given trapping permission. I know that would probably cause trouble, but it is close to the same thing in reverse.

Just some thoughts.

Mike

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:35 am

I think the signs, or putting the traps up in a tree are good ideas. I don't know the perfect solution. I do know your enjoying your out door activity should not cause someone else to pay the high price of losing or injuring their dog. How would you feel about it if bird hunters took all your traps, or did something to cause you great harm as part of their hunting? Maybe that is something we could start with. Public land, I find and take all the traps I can find. Private land, the same, if the owner has not given trapping permission. I know that would probably cause trouble, but it is close to the same thing in reverse.

You just hit on the main problem. People have been taking traps for years. That is why no one wants signd put up because hunters as well as other people take the traps. The problem starts with us.

Ezzy