E collar

[Wildirishman64]

So I've given into the idea of working my GSP with the help of an ecollar. I hunt very tough thickets and can't keep up with my girl. Trying to get her to stay close in say 30 yards. Will the ecollar help me with this issue? She is finding birds and points but I lose sight and sound so I'm afraid I am not getting there fast enough

[Wyobio]

So I've given into the idea of working my GSP with the help of an ecollar. I hunt very tough thickets and can't keep up with my girl. Trying to get her to stay close in say 30 yards. Will the ecollar help me with this issue? She is finding birds and points but I lose sight and sound so I'm afraid I am not getting there fast enough

An e-collar won't do anything other than re-enforce what the dog has been trained to do. You say she is pointing birds? It sounds like you need a beeper collar or at least a bell to keep track of her. How is a shock collar going to help, or are you saying she breaks before you can get to her when she is on point? Is she getting too far out in front of you and not responding when you call? I hunt the thick stuff and my dogs will get way beyond 30 yards...but they (usually) will point the birds or at least point and re-locate. When you cannot see them in the cattails, the beeper/locator is very handy.

If she normally comes back when you call her, but gets excited while bird hunting and busts birds, using the e-collar to call her back and stay closer CAN be effective. But it sounds like she is really not holding the birds, and I am not really sure how you are intending to use the e-collar. A friend of mine calls them "hearing aids". They really are nothing more than a reminder to the dog that they need to listen, but they are not a substitute for training/experience.

Before you use go out in the field, you need to work with the dog and the e-collar outside of a hunting situation. The last thing you want is the dog to associate birds with pain and trauma. My dogs get very excited when I break out the e-collars, because they know that means fun stuff is about to happen.....

[gonehuntin']

Once you have the dog whistle trained the collar will reinforce the command. The ecollar will never shorten the dog's range without you continually hacking it.

You probably shouldn't own a pointer if you want it to hunt at 30 yards, that's flusher range. You have to learn to let the dog roll and trust it. If he's staying within 100 yards, he's in perfect grouse range.

[Mountaineer]

So I've given into the idea of working my GSP with the help of an ecollar. I hunt very tough thickets and can't keep up with my girl. Trying to get her to stay close in say 30 yards. Will the ecollar help me with this issue? She is finding birds and points but I lose sight and sound so I'm afraid I am not getting there fast enough

30 yards? :roll:
If the dog holds, perhaps you could hurry less and maybe a few more grouse would hold and you could find a position to shoot.
Or, what birds are you talking about?
Ruffed grouse in KY are present in some areas in some numbers but ...be a good idea to get there too slowly if it came to them.
Quail?
Released birds?
Each bird will bring their own ease and difficulty...as will the "thickets".

I would not hamstring the dog, I would hunt wiser and I would also make haste slowly.
I would not use an e-collar as a leash....the dog will thank you.

If you are new to all this and your angst is truthfully most about losing the dog rather than losing birds then I would consider an Astro.
It is hard for new folks to ...let go.
Many of us went through that at one time...pretty normal.
There is a learning curve for the bird hunter...especially with a bird dog ahead of him.
Don't look for shortcuts.
Consider a dog trainer for the dog and you....trainers can help us all.

[Wildirishman64]

I am not using it as an extra leash. Her prey drive is strong and if I had her in a corn stubble field It wouldn't be a problem. She is a wide range 100 yards or more. I train with her everyday atleast 30 minutes a day and she is a member of our house. So she gets lots of opportunities to make for good training. The ecollar I have is the kind that will beep when she is on point so it not a leash. Im sort of old school in the department of training. I've had three GSP over the years. I hunted over one of my girls 25 years ago when I lived in Colorado and had permission to hunt a 7000 acre farm. She was a wide ranger too but if she pointed a bird I could see her. My current dog has a bell on her now but she is hard to see and hear in the clear cuts I hunt. 20 yards is difficult to see the dog. I don't need it for correction. She does have a tendency to chase a bobcat or deer if she spooks em and I don't want that behavior in the field.

[Wildirishman64]

So I've given into the idea of working my GSP with the help of an ecollar. I hunt very tough thickets and can't keep up with my girl. Trying to get her to stay close in say 30 yards. Will the ecollar help me with this issue? She is finding birds and points but I lose sight and sound so I'm afraid I am not getting there fast enough

30 yards? :roll:
If the dog holds, perhaps you could hurry less and maybe a few more grouse would hold and you could find a position to shoot.
Or, what birds are you talking about?
Ruffed grouse in KY are present in some areas in some numbers but ...be a good idea to get there too slowly if it came to them.
Quail?
Released birds?
Each bird will bring their own ease and difficulty...as will the "thickets".

I would not hamstring the dog, I would hunt wiser and I would also make haste slowly.
I would not use an e-collar as a leash....the dog will thank you.

If you are new to all this and your angst is truthfully most about losing the dog rather than losing birds then I would consider an Astro.
It is hard for new folks to ...let go.
Many of us went through that at one time...pretty normal.
There is a learning curve for the bird hunter...especially with a bird dog ahead of him.
Don't look for shortcuts.
Consider a dog trainer for the dog and you....trainers can help us all.

Yes I'm hunting grouse and bleed red every hunt as 7 foot sour briar takes it toll on a hunter lol. I wish grouse could walk out of the thicket occasionally

[Wildirishman64]

So I've given into the idea of working my GSP with the help of an ecollar. I hunt very tough thickets and can't keep up with my girl. Trying to get her to stay close in say 30 yards. Will the ecollar help me with this issue? She is finding birds and points but I lose sight and sound so I'm afraid I am not getting there fast enough

An e-collar won't do anything other than re-enforce what the dog has been trained to do. You say she is pointing birds? It sounds like you need a beeper collar or at least a bell to keep track of her. How is a shock collar going to help, or are you saying she breaks before you can get to her when she is on point? Is she getting too far out in front of you and not responding when you call? I hunt the thick stuff and my dogs will get way beyond 30 yards...but they (usually) will point the birds or at least point and re-locate. When you cannot see them in the cattails, the beeper/locator is very handy.

If she normally comes back when you call her, but gets excited while bird hunting and busts birds, using the e-collar to call her back and stay closer CAN be effective. But it sounds like she is really not holding the birds, and I am not really sure how you are intending to use the e-collar. A friend of mine calls them "hearing aids". They really are nothing more than a reminder to the dog that they need to listen, but they are not a substitute for training/experience.

Before you use go out in the field, you need to work with the dog and the e-collar outside of a hunting situation. The last thing you want is the dog to associate birds with pain and trauma. My dogs get very excited when I break out the e-collars, because they know that means fun stuff is about to happen.....

These birds move at the sound of a truck slamming shut or the sound of a bell but I have one on her. I've walked up on her being birdy but I'm afraid it's flushed before I get there. She is also fond of chasing deer. I've hacked till my head explodes so.....

[Mountaineer]

... She is a wide range 100 yards or more. ... I don't need it for correction. She does have a tendency to chase a bobcat or deer if she spooks em and I don't want that behavior in the field.

100 yards would not equate to wide unless pup was a flusher.

If pup chases a deer then you do need an e-collar for correction.

Briars are normal...much ado about little.

Don't be afraid.

I doubt about either the door slam or the bell but, given the wrong location from the bird's point of view they will skedaddle..so would you given reversed lives.

I would assume that a bird skedaddled not from your interpretation of the dog's actions but from an empty point held by the pup...or seeing or hearing a bird vamoose.
Bird scent does not indicate much more than a bird was there at some point....they are often many places in the course of a day.

I would consider not hacking...that will also alert a bird and it will do little but let the dog know where you are and that he is winning.
I have done much the same...most have if they are honest.

Good luck.

[Fran Seagren]

You probably shouldn't own a pointer if you want it to hunt at 30 yards, that's flusher range. You have to learn to let the dog roll and trust it. If he's staying within 100 yards, he's in perfect grouse range.

Is this for real - 100 yards for grouse? Are you talking ruffed grouse? Here in northwest Washington that wouldn't work at all. It's more like 30 yards in our dense brush and evergreen trees. We would never find our dog - or I should say, we would never be able to "get" to the dog if he was 100 yards into our grouse cover.

[Wildirishman64]

You probably shouldn't own a pointer if you want it to hunt at 30 yards, that's flusher range. You have to learn to let the dog roll and trust it. If he's staying within 100 yards, he's in perfect grouse range.

Is this for real - 100 yards for grouse? Are you talking ruffed grouse? Here in northwest Washington that wouldn't work at all. It's more like 30 yards in our dense brush and evergreen trees. We would never find our dog - or I should say, we would never be able to "get" to the dog if he was 100 yards into our grouse cover.

Thanks and yes not many hunt the Wiley bird as it's too much work for too little. Most head to Wisconsin and Michigan to hunt them. Thanks for helping me make the point when in thick cover getting and finding a dog is difficult. I'm getting that those who have replied have never been? I go where the birds are and they are not on my back deck. I've hunted sage grouse in Colorado years ago when I lived there but they are a much different bird here and the habitat also. If you hunt sharp tail grouse in South Dakota my dog would be perfect

[Wildirishman64]

Thanks Fran for the input, I should have said that this is my 3rd GSP and the last two would hunt as close as the habitat would allow. Some of these guys must hunt preserves and not wild birds

[birddogger]

Thanks Fran for the input, I should have said that this is my 3rd GSP and the last two would hunt as close as the habitat would allow. Some of these guys must hunt preserves and not wild birds

Most of the dogs I have owned would also adjust to the type of cover I was hunting and I believe most will with enough exposure/experience.

Charlie

[Mountaineer]

...Thanks and yes not many hunt the Wiley bird as it's too much work for too little. Most head to Wisconsin and Michigan to hunt them. Thanks for helping me make the point when in thick cover getting and finding a dog is difficult. I'm getting that those who have replied have never been? ...

Just for info, I have hunted ruffed grouse in SE Ohio and WVa for 49 seasons...in cover as thick and as easy as any in KY....as well hunting Bonasa U in several other states.
I have seen over the years that many grousehunters enjoy thinking what they do is some form of a near forced march and that "their" conditions are the worst.
These ideas, regardless of age, are the ideas of a younker.

Good dogs, ones given the opportunities to develop their genes, often reduce the need to discuss hardships and scratches.

[Wildirishman64]

...Thanks and yes not many hunt the Wiley bird as it's too much work for too little. Most head to Wisconsin and Michigan to hunt them. Thanks for helping me make the point when in thick cover getting and finding a dog is difficult. I'm getting that those who have replied have never been? ...

Just for info, I have hunted ruffed grouse in SE Ohio and WVa for 49 seasons...in cover as thick and as easy as any in KY....as well hunting Bonasa U in several other states.
I have seen over the years that many grousehunters enjoy thinking what they do is some form of a near forced march and that "their" conditions are the worst.
These ideas, regardless of age, are the ideas of a younker.

Good dogs, ones given the opportunities to develop their genes, often reduce the need to discuss hardships and scratches.

It's not about the hardships or the scratches. I live in the thicket that you spoke of? It is amusing that I have yet to see another hunter after 15 hunts so when I say few hunt them I can back that up with my experience. Grouse hunters go where others won't and you sound like you are one of those guys. Bella did respond well to the beeper and stimulation this morning. She is now learning when she is in my sight I will back her up and ultimately work together. I hunted my share of tough cover in southwest PA as a young hunter, or hunting buck brush for pheasants in Colorado and now in KY for the last 10 years. Hunting together and watching her work is the dividend for me.

[Mountaineer]

It's not about the hardships or the scratches. I live in the thicket that you spoke of? It is amusing that I have yet to see another hunter after 15 hunts so when I say few hunt them I can back that up with my experience. Grouse hunters go where others won't and you sound like you are one of those guys. Bella did respond well to the beeper and stimulation this morning. She is now learning when she is in my sight I will back her up and ultimately work together. I hunted my share of tough cover in southwest PA as a young hunter, or hunting buck brush for pheasants in Colorado and now in KY for the last 10 years. Hunting together and watching her work is the dividend for me.

You may not see other hunters because of the grouse population or the location.
Grousehunter numbers in the Apps have declined along with the birds.

"Grouse hunters go where others won't"...no really, no..... grouse hunters go where the grouse are.
They do not have any lock on cover-busting.
Sorry, we don't.

Good luck with pup.....I have a different idea of "hunting together."
With any of my three, we may hunt together separately, if that is what works.
I do not require a constant visual connection.
Each to their own understanding of what they need.

[Wildirishman64]

Mountaineer you are right when speaking on bird numbers here. They cycle and seems that they are getting less and less. My hunt with Bella is more about team work as I stated the last post and spending time in the woods. I'm almost 50 and remember seeing rabbit hunters and bow hunters on any given day during the late season until about ten years ago. I've never had an encounter with a fish and game officer either for that matter. It may be a sign of the times not sure. I've raised three girls who loved spending time afield which is where my GSP fits in, it's the quality time with her that makes me think of my younger days I guess. Thanks for your feedback, much appreciated.

[gonehuntin']

You probably shouldn't own a pointer if you want it to hunt at 30 yards, that's flusher range. You have to learn to let the dog roll and trust it. If he's staying within 100 yards, he's in perfect grouse range.

Is this for real - 100 yards for grouse? Are you talking ruffed grouse? Here in northwest Washington that wouldn't work at all. It's more like 30 yards in our dense brush and evergreen trees. We would never find our dog - or I should say, we would never be able to "get" to the dog if he was 100 yards into our grouse cover.

You've obviously never been to the Midwest. You want thick? Dog goes on point you can't see them at 20 yards. At cover dog trials they tun 2-300 yards. You find them by Astro or beeper. The dogs point the birds and hold until you get there. No reason you have to be close to a grouse.

Incidentally, I've hunted grouse across the country including BC. Never seen any country as thick as this.

[Neil]

1. GPS
2. Go to a grouse trial and see how big the dogs run and how they handle birds.
3. Next time consider a flusher.

[shags]

1. GPS
2. Go to a grouse trial and see how big the dogs run and how they handle birds.
3. Next time consider a flusher.

4. Trashbreak the dog.