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Arizona quail

Re: Arizona quail

Postby Elkhunter » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:30 pm

It only took seeing a town I liked to hunt near get over ran from people talking about it on a few forums. I even PM'ed a few of them to take the name of the town down to no avail. The landowner we used to get access from says she went from no calls 3 years ago, to a few dozen calls this year.

So yes general areas and town names can for sure saturate areas.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby ultracarry » Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:41 am

probably a bad idea. You will have people put themselves and dogs in danger unless they are familiar with the country. southern Arizona is probably the most dangerous place to hunt. Unless you like being shot at by illegals/drug smugglers, cactus everywhere, very unstable footing, birds that run through cholla, broken nails/ripped off pads/paws, impaled dogs with sticks. The human dangers of very dry air that will dehydrate you every day...

I just spent a week scouting down there on my way back from Kansas, put four dogs down twice a day while driving roads. Quail numbers are very low due to good reports last year.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby HUNTS » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:24 am

Elkhunter wrote:It only took seeing a town I liked to hunt near get over ran from people talking about it on a few forums. I even PM'ed a few of them to take the name of the town down to no avail. The landowner we used to get access from says she went from no calls 3 years ago, to a few dozen calls this year.

So yes general areas and town names can for sure saturate areas.


Absolutely! No reason to mention anything other than a state's name. Also, sick of fly fishing magazines that feature specific rivers, flies, etc. Things are crowded enough. Let's not invite the lazy folks who won't take the time to figure things out for themselves. I don't care how much $$$ they spent on their "vacation to paradise".
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby codym » Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:21 pm

I'm sure everyone stopped paying attention to this thread because the guy with the show pretty much said stick it in your eye I'm doing whatever I want to do. I will say that here in the southwest things are insane. I saw more hunters on black Friday than I have in 20 years combined! definitely sucks because at least a few of these guys were complete slobs, leaving their trash/hulls all over the place and if they saw you out walking an area, they would cut you off, making for some pretty unsafe situations.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby pointerdog » Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:56 pm

Elkhunter wrote:It only took seeing a town I liked to hunt near get over ran from people talking about it on a few forums. I even PM'ed a few of them to take the name of the town down to no avail. The landowner we used to get access from says she went from no calls 3 years ago, to a few dozen calls this year.

So yes general areas and town names can for sure saturate areas.


Look at what effect the infamous "Roy" created in that very special corner of Montana. Scads of internet buddies, most from the northeast descended on the Big Sky state pounding way more than their fair share of the bounty. They took ownership of that area claiming it as their own, severely ticking off the locals as well as other more well behaved upland forum viewers. That possession limit bust was what got caught, think about all of the other game hogging and poaching took place

Keep your friends close and your hunting spots closer!
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby Meller » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:58 am

codym wrote:I'm sure everyone stopped paying attention to this thread because the guy with the show pretty much said stick it in your eye I'm doing whatever I want to do. I will say that here in the southwest things are insane. I saw more hunters on black Friday than I have in 20 years combined! definitely sucks because at least a few of these guys were complete slobs, leaving their trash/hulls all over the place and if they saw you out walking an area, they would cut you off and making for some pretty unsafe situations.

The few spoil it for the many!
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby mnaj_springer » Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:41 pm

HUNTS wrote:
Elkhunter wrote:It only took seeing a town I liked to hunt near get over ran from people talking about it on a few forums. I even PM'ed a few of them to take the name of the town down to no avail. The landowner we used to get access from says she went from no calls 3 years ago, to a few dozen calls this year.

So yes general areas and town names can for sure saturate areas.


Absolutely! No reason to mention anything other than a state's name. Also, sick of fly fishing magazines that feature specific rivers, flies, etc. Things are crowded enough. Let's not invite the lazy folks who won't take the time to figure things out for themselves. I don't care how much $$$ they spent on their "vacation to paradise".


I understand your sentiment, but the flip side is that we have fewer and fewer hunters and sportsman each year. That means less money going towards conservation. So our sport needs new hunters. And new hunters have to start somewhere, so what solution do you suggest for this problem?
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby ezzy333 » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:57 pm

I have to be on your side Springer. I have ywt tp find a situation hunting that I wouldn't be glad to share with other hunters. But I realize and have dealt with those that want it all for themselves.

Calls to mind the fight the bowhunters put up to keep out of state hunter out of Iowa several years ago but if you looked on their web page they had a picture gallery of the trophies they had taken with a bow and out of the 25 or so they had on their page all but two were taken out of state. Good for them to have free access to other states but not good for you to get into theirs.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby Mountaineer » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:26 pm

Again, it depends upon the bird, the viability of the bird within a trend and the accessablity of the cover, as a start.
"Sharing", at the extremes, can lead to long term recovery issues...at the best.
At the worst, "too many" can be a tipping point beyond which recovery is problematical.
How the locals, hunters or merchants, feel really should not be of a first concern.
It is a shame we so often arrive at decisions involving gamebirds based upon ourselves.

Altho deer have zero relatability to many gamebirds, Ohio is experiencing the NR hate at present as the deer numbers have thankfully declined in many areas.
Rather than blame themselves and bow seasons running months and months...the call is first heard to slam the hated NRs with high fees, etc.
Again, the focus is misplaced if the critter is at all important beyond resting on a tailgate or frypan.

Few look at the past comparables to indicate what may happen in their own backyard.
Apparently, few care for the bird as Job #1.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby Az Draht » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:41 am

Cut my mearns trip short because of the rediculous amount of hunters. Didn't establish camp the first day because my normal locations had multiple camps of 3-4 rvs or 5-6 trucks all around them.

2nd day moved way east out of the area that is greatly impacted by the Internet posts, magazine articles, and shows. And I still had 8 hunters and 12 dogs walk through my camp. No doubt they moved to the fringes because of the other hunters

Picked up and went home the evening of my second day


Bird contacts were not as good as anticipated they would be because of the favorable rains.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby codym » Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:28 pm

Az Draht wrote:Cut my mearns trip short because of the rediculous amount of hunters. Didn't establish camp the first day because my normal locations had multiple camps of 3-4 rvs or 5-6 trucks all around them.

2nd day moved way east out of the area that is greatly impacted by the Internet posts, magazine articles, and shows. And I still had 8 hunters and 12 dogs walk through my camp. No doubt they moved to the fringes because of the other hunters

Picked up and went home the evening of my second day


Bird contacts were not as good as anticipated they would be because of the favorable rains.


Im sorry we are dealing with the same thing here. We even have a moron guide posting on forums wanting to "guide" people all over public land, I wonder how business will be next year when those people know the area well enough to hunt it on their own and bring their fiends and family.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby codym » Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:35 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:[. So our sport needs new hunters. And new hunters have to start somewhere, so what solution do you suggest for this problem?


Springer you seem like a good guy but you can't realistically believe this? A first time bird hunter isn't going to be sitting on the couch or whatever, read an article or see a show and decide "wow thats awesome, let me travel hundreds/thousands of miles to do something I've never done before". I've invited plenty of new people out and getting them to commit for even half a day hunting no more than 30 minutes from their home has proved a losing proposition. I guided a youth phesant hunt last Saturday and there was plenty of mentors and youngsters and they had a blast. Thats where new hunters need to come from.
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Arizona quail

Postby GSPONPOINT32 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:19 pm

This is an interesting topic. My buddy and I are both new bird hunters and gsp owners. He is in Texas and I'm in Maryland. We are actually considering traveling to the Midwest to hunt public lands in 2018 or 2019 when our dogs are a bit older. We have no idea where to go other than articles/forums/conservation reports/etc. I'm actually on the side of learning through experience both good and bad. I know I've had my fair share of good turkey / bass / whitetail / etc. spots spoiled by one loudmouth thinking he's doing everyone a favor and puffing his chest out on the Internet. I don't think there is a right answer to this.


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Re: Arizona quail

Postby pointerdog » Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:41 pm

codym wrote:
Az Draht wrote:Cut my mearns trip short because of the rediculous amount of hunters. Didn't establish camp the first day because my normal locations had multiple camps of 3-4 rvs or 5-6 trucks all around them.

2nd day moved way east out of the area that is greatly impacted by the Internet posts, magazine articles, and shows. And I still had 8 hunters and 12 dogs walk through my camp. No doubt they moved to the fringes because of the other hunters

Picked up and went home the evening of my second day


Bird contacts were not as good as anticipated they would be because of the favorable rains.


Im sorry we are dealing with the same thing here. We even have a moron guide posting on forums wanting to "guide" people all over public land, I wonder how business will be next year when those people know the area well enough to hunt it on their own and bring their fiends and family.


Cody M, isn't that public lands guide a paying sponsor on the 'other site' ? That administrator will do anything for buck, no wonder it's the hot spotting to go site on the web,. It would be interesting to see if that 'guide' possesses the proper licenses and credentials to be legal
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby codym » Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:57 pm

GSPONPOINT32 wrote:This is an interesting topic. My buddy and I are both new bird hunters and gsp owners. He is in Texas and I'm in Maryland. We are actually considering traveling to the Midwest to hunt public lands in 2018 or 2019 when our dogs are a bit older. We have no idea where to go other than articles/forums/conservation reports/etc. I'm actually on the side of learning through experience both good and bad. I know I've had my fair share of good turkey / bass / whitetail / etc. spots spoiled by one loudmouth thinking he's doing everyone a favor and puffing his chest out on the Internet. I don't think there is a right answer to this.


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Thats my point GSP. By 2018 or 2019 you guys will have two or three years under your belt hunting assuming this is your first. You guys have dogs and sound like your fairly committed to this upland deal. You will learn a ton in these couple years to the point where you feel confident enough to strike out for new species in new areas, in my opinion you guys aren't beginners, maybe not experts but def. not begginers. The main point being people hot spotting on forums/facebook/or print isn't the reason you entered the sport correct?
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Arizona quail

Postby GSPONPOINT32 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:06 pm

codym wrote:
GSPONPOINT32 wrote:This is an interesting topic. My buddy and I are both new bird hunters and gsp owners. He is in Texas and I'm in Maryland. We are actually considering traveling to the Midwest to hunt public lands in 2018 or 2019 when our dogs are a bit older. We have no idea where to go other than articles/forums/conservation reports/etc. I'm actually on the side of learning through experience both good and bad. I know I've had my fair share of good turkey / bass / whitetail / etc. spots spoiled by one loudmouth thinking he's doing everyone a favor and puffing his chest out on the Internet. I don't think there is a right answer to this.


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Thats my point GSP. By 2018 or 2019 you guys will have two or three years under your belt hunting assuming this is your first. You guys have dogs and sound like your fairly committed to this upland deal. You will learn a ton in these couple years to the point where you feel confident enough to strike out for new species in new areas, in my opinion you guys aren't beginners, maybe not experts but def. not begginers. The main point being people hot spotting on forums/facebook/or print isn't the reason you entered the sport correct?

I went on a ton of preserve hunts growing up with friends dogs. We also hunted pa released pheasants and some waterfowl. I decided I wanted to hunt on my schedule and picked up my first GSP. I feel for the local guys who have been gathering Intel for years to have their honey holes crushed in a few short years because of a lucky visitor who posted online. I'll take what I can get online but I can see why hot spotting doesn't help conservation or attract new hunters. Hope that answered your question.



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Arizona quail

Postby MGIII » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:08 pm

Az Draht wrote:Cut my mearns trip short because of the rediculous amount of hunters. Didn't establish camp the first day because my normal locations had multiple camps of 3-4 rvs or 5-6 trucks all around them.

2nd day moved way east out of the area that is greatly impacted by the Internet posts, magazine articles, and shows. And I still had 8 hunters and 12 dogs walk through my camp. No doubt they moved to the fringes because of the other hunters

Picked up and went home the evening of my second day


Bird contacts were not as good as anticipated they would be because of the favorable rains.



I do not hunt opening weekend for this reason and also because of the amount of juvenile birds that are taken. There is plenty of land out there it just seems that everyone tends to go to the places with easier access.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby Az Draht » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:03 pm

MGIII wrote:I do not hunt opening weekend for this reason and also because of the amount of juvenile birds that are taken. There is plenty of land out there it just seems that everyone tends to go to the places with easier access.


I hunt opening weekend and then a couple of more times, I will make the 4 hour drive, hunt for 3 hours and then drive home. So maybe 6 days total.

I have only been hunting mearns for ten years. But even I have seen a dramatic increase in hunters during that time. Until this year I have never actually seen another hunter in the field, much less in my camp. I have heard them nearby, but never actually seen them. And a lot of the camps I saw looked like they are set up for the season. Cant be good for the carryover of birds

There is no doubt in my mind the Internet and the media profiteers have caused this.

I wonder if Scott will provide links to any articles, tv shows, or other media which direct people to hunt in he and his buddies favorite home coverts. The "snowbirds" might like those spots also.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby mnaj_springer » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:30 am

codym wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:[. So our sport needs new hunters. And new hunters have to start somewhere, so what solution do you suggest for this problem?


Springer you seem like a good guy but you can't realistically believe this? A first time bird hunter isn't going to be sitting on the couch or whatever, read an article or see a show and decide "wow thats awesome, let me travel hundreds/thousands of miles to do something I've never done before". I've invited plenty of new people out and getting them to commit for even half a day hunting no more than 30 minutes from their home has proved a losing proposition. I guided a youth phesant hunt last Saturday and there was plenty of mentors and youngsters and they had a blast. Thats where new hunters need to come from.


I think you're misinterpreting my intent. I am simply suggesting that new hunters who don't have connections to others and are not sure where to hunt will look to sources they've heard of, including forums (which come up in google searches). I doubt a non-hunter would get off their couch after a show, buy a dog, buy a gun, make a cross-country trip, then slay birds. I'm talking about the guy who is a self starter but just doesn't quite know where to look.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby codym » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:05 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:
codym wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:[. So our sport needs new hunters. And new hunters have to start somewhere, so what solution do you suggest for this problem?


Springer you seem like a good guy but you can't realistically believe this? A first time bird hunter isn't going to be sitting on the couch or whatever, read an article or see a show and decide "wow thats awesome, let me travel hundreds/thousands of miles to do something I've never done before". I've invited plenty of new people out and getting them to commit for even half a day hunting no more than 30 minutes from their home has proved a losing proposition. I guided a youth phesant hunt last Saturday and there was plenty of mentors and youngsters and they had a blast. Thats where new hunters need to come from.


I think you're misinterpreting my intent. I am simply suggesting that new hunters who don't have connections to others and are not sure where to hunt will look to sources they've heard of, including forums (which come up in google searches). I doubt a non-hunter would get off their couch after a show, buy a dog, buy a gun, make a cross-country trip, then slay birds. I'm talking about the guy who is a self starter but just doesn't quite know where to look.


If you look at the original post the celebrity wanted to know areas that "snow birds" could come to hunt. When people told him to screw himself it turned into a not wanting to introduce new people to the sport thread which is ridiculous. I have no problem with people coming to any new state putting down boot leather struggling looking over maps and putting the time in to figure out the right areas and how to hunt the birds. It's called effort, but today it seems like people just want the info handed to them and some idiots are more than happy to do so which is beyond me. There is plenty of info out there about the kinds of habitat each bird lives in and their habits. There are plenty of maps that show their distribution and home ranges. Get off your lazy butts, quit hot spotting and go figure it out for yourself is all I'm saying. Kids need to be taken hunting and shown ethics and a good time. That's where the future lies.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby mnaj_springer » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:29 pm

Cody, you're right about the background of the thread. But you're wrong to think that is what I was referencing. And the future can't just be with kids. We have to include adults who are new to the sport as well. I had a friend text me asking about a grouse spot I showed him. I sent him the exact location and told him how to hunt it. He's an adult, he's new to the sport, and I hope is he'll continue this when he has kids. I also hope he gets his own dog.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby codym » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:38 pm

Springer I think you sound like a heck of a guy for helping the new guy. What your doing for him is in my opinion much different than braodcasting to the masses. That is what I have an issue with.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby mnaj_springer » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:04 pm

codym wrote:Springer I think you sound like a heck of a guy for helping the new guy. What your doing for him is in my opinion much different than braodcasting to the masses. That is what I have an issue with.


To be clear Cody, I'm nice to an extent. I told him about 3 really nice spots, but I didn't give him my favorite spot. But giving him 3 spots was easy considering I have a couple dozen grouse coverts I know well and frequent.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby AAA Gundogs » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:03 pm

It's like I'm a teenager again and it's the "locals only" battle for surf spots.

We're facing a battle against extinction. Get your heads out of your butts. Every city slicker that gets into shooting and hunting staves it off.

I'll give spots to anyone that asks.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby codym » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:12 pm

AAA Gundogs wrote:It's like I'm a teenager again and it's the "locals only" battle for surf spots.

We're facing a battle against extinction. Get your heads out of your butts. Every city slicker that gets into shooting and hunting staves it off.

I'll give spots to anyone that asks.


If that's what you got out of this thread I think you missed the point.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby AAA Gundogs » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:36 pm

codym wrote:
AAA Gundogs wrote:It's like I'm a teenager again and it's the "locals only" battle for surf spots.

We're facing a battle against extinction. Get your heads out of your butts. Every city slicker that gets into shooting and hunting staves it off.

I'll give spots to anyone that asks.


If that's what you got out of this thread I think you missed the point.


No, I read all of it and the hostilities directed at the original poster.

I read where someone hates magazines giving fishing spots with flies and its for lazy people. I think it's great. It's a sport that attracts the affluent and is a great gateway to the outdoors and hunting.

I think you're missing the point. Everything in my power to help newcomers.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby ezzy333 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:41 pm

AAA Gundogs wrote:It's like I'm a teenager again and it's the "locals only" battle for surf spots.

We're facing a battle against extinction. Get your heads out of your butts. Every city slicker that gets into shooting and hunting staves it off.

I'll give spots to anyone that asks.

Amen Amen Amen
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby Mountaineer » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:50 pm

It is a shame when gamebird extirpation sits in a far second to hunters...be the hunters old or incoming.
Hunters deserve to be third...following habitat and bird.
Particulars matter more than any feel-good result of offering a welcoming hand to younkers.
Simply be judiucious with what is really not yours to give.....imso.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby ezzy333 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:37 pm

Mountaineer wrote:It is a shame when gamebird extirpation sits in a far second to hunters...be the hunters old or incoming.
Hunters deserve to be third...following habitat and bird.
Particulars matter more than any feel-good result of offering a welcoming hand to younkers.
Simply be judiucious with what is really not yours to give.....imso.


There would be nor will there be gamebirds if it wasn't for hunters/
Hunters must be first so they can develop and maintain habitat and birds/
Promoting young or new hunters is not just a feel-good equation but rather a necessity so we will continue the sport as well as the quarry
Promote the sport in everyway possible so there will not be the temptation to hide or claim as your own. JMO
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby Mountaineer » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:28 pm

ezzy333 wrote:There would be nor will there be gamebirds if it wasn't for hunters/
Hunters must be first so they can develop and maintain habitat and birds/
Promoting young or new hunters is not just a feel-good equation but rather a necessity so we will continue the sport as well as the quarry
Promote the sport in everyway possible so there will not be the temptation to hide or claim as your own. JMO


There would be ruffed grouse around, for one...hunters simply self-define a bird by using the term...gamebird.
Ruffed grouse habitat is created best by Man being Man...not by hunters or hunting organizations.
Hunters can certainly speak up for proper forest management but often, as paper mills need fed...habitat is created as a part of doing business...same for coal, etc. Hunters could help with NF management but sadly, they seldom do....I have been in many NF revision plan meetings.
In the earlier days where grouse numbers were artificially high and bushel baskets carried home the birds, a growing country timbered and burned their way in the grouse's favor.
That has changed and ...it is a good thing in many ways.
Hunter's do not in any appreciable way, even the silly RGS photo op private land deals, make a difference with the ruffed grouse......industry rules the roost, with their interest first.
Grouse hunters can help tho by not being blind to a loss of corporate acreage to deer hunter leasing, as occurs in the Apps......which is a loss to the bird, new hunters and old grouse hunters alike, as access would still be available to new guy jimmy-down-the-road hunting squirrels.
"Shoot 'em" notice....as happened in N NH, hurt the bird.....as can any increase hunter in numbers in any areas where a fragile bird can not stand increased attention. Hunter additivity is real....some places and some times of the year.
History tells that tale.
I have lived it.

Promoting new hunters into the fold is a good thing but using that as an excuse for every notice of counties or GPS co-ordinates....ignores birds which do not have the advantages of pheasants or bowhites and their lucky affinity with trap & transfer or raise & release. That notice can easily spread to birds not able to absorb...attention.
Dem kids simply do not trump a bird facing extirpation.....imho. Extirpation is but a notice away, at times, with recovery slow or slower or ...too far beyond a tipping point as other decline factors begin to speak up.
"In every way possible"...is an extremely narrow view of a world where not all exists in the same viable state.
One must look at each situation with an eye favoring the bird ...first.
Actually, to me, it is habitat first.
And, hunters are not always a driving force of every habitat creation.

The "hide and claim" is insulting.
Understanding any area for gamebirds is available to all, crack a book on any species.....what notice on rags and message boards does is make the process easy....which oh, so many prefer.
Certainly, anyone worth their salt understands early successional habitat as but one type....nothing is hidden.
I do not live in the U.P. but I go there to hunt and somehow mangage many years ago to not blunder aroiund the woods w/o some Internet help.
There truely is some profound lack of knowledge regarding some gamebirds and there struggles over areas of the range outside of prime.
Generalizing about gamebirds or on dealing out info willy-nilly to try and save Hunting.......speaks to that lack of knowledge and first-hand experience of worst case.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby codym » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:17 pm

Mountaineer wrote:Generalizing about gamebirds or on dealing out info willy-nilly to try and save Hunting.......speaks to that lack of knowledge and first-hand experience of worst case.

Well said.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby QuillGordon » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:02 am

I have only found one quail left in Arizona
He is a handsome feller with a very lonely cry
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby Scott Linden » Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:59 pm

Az Draht wrote:
MGIII wrote:I do not hunt opening weekend for this reason and also because of the amount of juvenile birds that are taken. There is plenty of land out there it just seems that everyone tends to go to the places with easier access.


I hunt opening weekend and then a couple of more times, I will make the 4 hour drive, hunt for 3 hours and then drive home. So maybe 6 days total.

I have only been hunting mearns for ten years. But even I have seen a dramatic increase in hunters during that time. Until this year I have never actually seen another hunter in the field, much less in my camp. I have heard them nearby, but never actually seen them. And a lot of the camps I saw looked like they are set up for the season. Cant be good for the carryover of birds

There is no doubt in my mind the Internet and the media profiteers have caused this.

I wonder if Scott will provide links to any articles, tv shows, or other media which direct people to hunt in he and his buddies favorite home coverts. The "snowbirds" might like those spots also.


I don't know what universe you're living in but it must be a different one than the rest of us if you're seeing more hunters than in the past. We are losing thousands of hunters every year, if you haven't heard. That is the point of my original request and virtually everything I do.

If you know so much about my motives then you know I talk about my favorite spots quite often on TV, in my magazine articles, in my blog and in conversation with new and old friends (actually, I doubt you'll be part of that last circle - ever). Glad to have new friends in my spots because I'm not a SELFISH S.O.B. Can you say the same?

What have YOU done lately to help the cause of more habitat and more hunters?

Yours truly,
Media Profiteer (I wish)
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby chwagn11 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:48 pm

Lots of worries on here about nothing. When the rain stops the birds will all be gone, hunters will stop coming. Rain returns in 10 to 20 years birds return, first couple years no hunters, 3rd and 4th year hunters everywhere, drought returns, and cycle repeats. Hunting does not have a negative effects on bird numbers. This is agreed upon by all upland biologist I have talked too. The Southwest has 3 to 4 good years out of 20? Somehow hunters like to believe it is the normal and it is not. The normal is low bird numbers due to low rainfall. Stop worrying your birds will all be gone as drought returns this year anyways. Along with the hunters.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby codym » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:12 pm

chwagn11 wrote:Lots of worries on here about nothing. When the rain stops the birds will all be gone, hunters will stop coming. Rain returns in 10 to 20 years birds return, first couple years no hunters, 3rd and 4th year hunters everywhere, drought returns, and cycle repeats. Hunting does not have a negative effects on bird numbers. This is agreed upon by all upland biologist I have talked too. The Southwest has 3 to 4 good years out of 20? Somehow hunters like to believe it is the normal and it is not. The normal is low bird numbers due to low rainfall. Stop worrying your birds will all be gone as drought returns this year anyways. Along with the hunters.



There is alot of wisdom in what you say and this is no doubt what will happen. According to some on here when the birds go away and they surely will, hunting will die because there will be no areas to hotspot the "new hunters" to on the interwebs.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby Az Draht » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:38 pm

Scott Linden wrote:
Az Draht wrote:
I hunt opening weekend and then a couple of more times, I will make the 4 hour drive, hunt for 3 hours and then drive home. So maybe 6 days total.

I have only been hunting mearns for ten years. But even I have seen a dramatic increase in hunters during that time. Until this year I have never actually seen another hunter in the field, much less in my camp. I have heard them nearby, but never actually seen them. And a lot of the camps I saw looked like they are set up for the season. Cant be good for the carryover of birds

There is no doubt in my mind the Internet and the media profiteers have caused this.

I wonder if Scott will provide links to any articles, tv shows, or other media which direct people to hunt in he and his buddies favorite home coverts. The "snowbirds" might like those spots also.


I don't know what universe you're living in but it must be a different one than the rest of us if you're seeing more hunters than in the past. We are losing thousands of hunters every year, if you haven't heard. That is the point of my original request and virtually everything I do.

If you know so much about my motives then you know I talk about my favorite spots quite often on TV, in my magazine articles, in my blog and in conversation with new and old friends (actually, I doubt you'll be part of that last circle - ever). Glad to have new friends in my spots because I'm not a SELFISH S.O.B. Can you say the same?

What have YOU done lately to help the cause of more habitat and more hunters?

Yours truly,
Media Profiteer (I wish)


You may want to review your original post, find the faults in your response to me, and try again
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby Scott Linden » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:27 pm

)[/quote]

You may want to review your original post, find the faults in your response to me, and try again[/quote]

"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience." George Carlin.

You win.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby Az Draht » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:12 pm

Let's see what Scott has to say about sharing his hunting locations.

“'If I told you, I’d have to kill you'is the line I usually recite when people ask where I fish and hunt when I’m not making TV shows. It is mostly up to you to make the investment in time, effort, fuel and boot leather to find a cast and blast destination."
Linden, S. 2015, 'Cast and Blast', Quail Forever, Fall 2015, pg 24

Here is his effort on this forum to keep chukar hunters at least two states away from his hunting locations

Scott Linden wrote:There are no chukars in Oregon, Idaho or Nevada. What many hunters describe as wingbeats in the distance are really rattlesnakes trying to scare off the mountain lions. I would focus completely on Wyoming, Maine, and Florida. The latter two states offer plenty of easy walking on flat ground, too. Alligators are a bonus.


Admittedly, I haven't look at all of Scott's writings, but commonalities are arising in the ones I have read. When he writes about locations outside of Oregon, he mentions specific towns to use as a base (he asked about nearby towns in the opening of this thread). Such as Grand Rapids, MN; Huron, SD; or this one on this forum:

Scott Linden wrote:What do you want to hunt and what time of year? Miles City often has good sharptail numbers but don't know yet about this year. Lewistown is also a good home base. Area biologists are usually helpful, and so are some of the web pages they will likely refer you to. Good luck.


When he writes about hunting in Oregon, he just mentions very general locations like "Northeast Oregon" or "Southeast Oregon" Here is an example. Notice the locations are more precise, still large but more precise, in the out of state locations.

Image

Linden, S. 2015, 'Devil Birds', Outdoor Life, November 2015, pg. 24


I am no longer wondering if Scott will provide links to any articles, tv shows, or other media which direct people to hunt in he and his buddies favorite home coverts because the "snowbirds" might like those spots also.

He won't.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby Scott Linden » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:41 pm

Boy do you have too much free time. Glad you are such a fan. Now, go out and get a life. End of discussion.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby mnaj_springer » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:56 pm

AZ Draht... you went through a lot of effort there... but I can speak to one of those locations... Grand Rapids, MN. I can promise you that Scott's TV show and writings pale in comparison (when it comes to introducing outsiders to specific locations) to the exposure from the Ruffed Grouse Society's national hunt which is regularly based out of Grand Rapids. There you have a 100 hunters being brought to spots to hunt. They're not reading it online, or looking at a map, but they are seeing these places up close.

Now I get the opposition to losing a spot. But two things to consider: 1. Who really is showing hunters these spots? And 2. When a hunter finds a spot "fair and square," do people accept that or do they huff and puff and talk about how they've gone to that spot for X amount of years?

I guess I'm asking this: Do you actually care how a spot is discovered or are you upset that you felt entitled to a spot and suddenly found out that you aren't? The difference matters.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby Sharon » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:12 pm

AZ Brittany Guy wrote:I think well written articles on this topic can only help a declining sport. It brings attention to sporting dogs, conservation and most of all, attracting our younger generation to the great outdoors.


Exactly.
When I started out the old hunters were more than willing to set me up in good spots. The Ontario Out of Doors forum is often full of suggestions on where to find pheasant at Hullet - public conservation area.

Doesn't sound like you Reba. Maybe it's an American thing. :)

Thanks for your work Scott.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby Az Draht » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:58 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:AZ Draht... you went through a lot of effort there... but I can speak to one of those locations... Grand Rapids, MN. I can promise you that Scott's TV show and writings pale in comparison (when it comes to introducing outsiders to specific locations) to the exposure from the Ruffed Grouse Society's national hunt which is regularly based out of Grand Rapids. There you have a 100 hunters being brought to spots to hunt. They're not reading it online, or looking at a map, but they are seeing these places up close.

Now I get the opposition to losing a spot. But two things to consider: 1. Who really is showing hunters these spots? And 2. When a hunter finds a spot "fair and square," do people accept that or do they huff and puff and talk about how they've gone to that spot for X amount of years?

I guess I'm asking this: Do you actually care how a spot is discovered or are you upset that you felt entitled to a spot and suddenly found out that you aren't? The difference matters.



I am well aware of the RGS hunt. When I was teenager, I had a guide chew me out because I had the audacity to be 50 yards down the trail when he pulled up to a location with his paying customers. I guess the hoi polloi getting to the location and, gasp, DOGLESS to boot was too much for him. I felt safe in mentioning Grand Rapids for the very reason you stated.

As far as being entitled to a spot goes, did you miss the part where I said I didn't pitch camp the first day and then left after the second day? No altercations ensued, no bitching, no chewing out teenagers, nothing.

In my second post, I stated the conclusions I reached based on my experience. Nothing more nothing less. My conclusion is simply that the internet is impacting hunting pressure on mearns quail.

I look forward to the questions you ask Scott. For discussion sake, of course. Maybe you can ask him about the poor logic he used in his response to my second post.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby ezzy333 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:16 pm

This is really a moot point since all you have to do is call the state DOC but even better is go to any outdoor show and you will find the outfitters there pleading with you to hire them to show you the best places in the area. If you can't attend just call them and they will fill you in. There are few if any secrets and that is good since those assets belong to all of us and everyone has an equal right. Plus, and this is totally unimportant, it is the greatest way of making friends that will last a life time.

Another case of no right or wrong but just a question of what your personal goals are, killing as many birds as possible or advancing our sport and making friends.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby QuillGordon » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:08 pm

I personally get the hot spot thang and sympathize with the locals
Unfortunately for me this and I dig Señor Lindens show
I'm going to have to step away from this topic now...
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby jetjockey » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:12 pm

You think the states and guides know all the best places to hunt? They sure don't in my state. They will get you somewhat close, but I assure you there are many "honey holes" that few people know about and even fewer talk about. There's a reason I only hunt with very close friends and family in many spots.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby codym » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:09 pm

Az Draht wrote:Let's see what Scott has to say about sharing his hunting locations.

“'If I told you, I’d have to kill you'is the line I usually recite when people ask where I fish and hunt when I’m not making TV shows. It is mostly up to you to make the investment in time, effort, fuel and boot leather to find a cast and blast destination."
Linden, S. 2015, 'Cast and Blast', Quail Forever, Fall 2015, pg 24

Here is his effort on this forum to keep chukar hunters at least two states away from his hunting locations

Scott Linden wrote:There are no chukars in Oregon, Idaho or Nevada. What many hunters describe as wingbeats in the distance are really rattlesnakes trying to scare off the mountain lions. I would focus completely on Wyoming, Maine, and Florida. The latter two states offer plenty of easy walking on flat ground, too. Alligators are a bonus.


Admittedly, I haven't look at all of Scott's writings, but commonalities are arising in the ones I have read. When he writes about locations outside of Oregon, he mentions specific towns to use as a base (he asked about nearby towns in the opening of this thread). Such as Grand Rapids, MN; Huron, SD; or this one on this forum:

Scott Linden wrote:What do you want to hunt and what time of year? Miles City often has good sharptail numbers but don't know yet about this year. Lewistown is also a good home base. Area biologists are usually helpful, and so are some of the web pages they will likely refer you to. Good luck.


When he writes about hunting in Oregon, he just mentions very general locations like "Northeast Oregon" or "Southeast Oregon" Here is an example. Notice the locations are more precise, still large but more precise, in the out of state locations.

Image

Linden, S. 2015, 'Devil Birds', Outdoor Life, November 2015, pg. 24


I am no longer wondering if Scott will provide links to any articles, tv shows, or other media which direct people to hunt in he and his buddies favorite home coverts because the "snowbirds" might like those spots also.

He won't.



Wow, hypocritical much
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Arizona quail

Postby MGIII » Sat May 20, 2017 1:20 pm

Well, shame on me. I stood up for Mr linden and told him to contact a few different people regarding his original question. I received my QF magazine in and what do I read in his "western quail" report??

Specific areas mentioned for each state.

Smh
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby MNTonester » Sat May 20, 2017 6:38 pm

the future can't just be with kids. We have to include adults who are new to the sport as well.

I've caught Scott's show a couple of times by accident, mainly because it airs at a time inconvenient to my schedule. I've enjoyed it. There is a young father in our congregation that I've had out grouse hunting twice (the first and only times he's hunted). I've lent him the use of a shotgun and provided him with ammo. This coming Fall I'm taking him for a pheasant hunt or two. Hopefully he enjoys the hunts and eventually his little boy and girl will join him. I think a combination of personal interest and shows like Scott's help to build interest in hunting. While I could never afford to hunt the places Scott hunts, it doesn't diminish the enjoyment I've had watching some of his shows (I've also checked out some Youtube episodes).

When he writes about locations outside of Oregon, he mentions specific towns to use as a base (he asked about nearby towns in the opening of this thread). Such as Grand Rapids, MN; Huron, SD

I guarantee you the state of Minnesota touts a number of towns in this state for pheasant and grouse and South Dakota does the same. I'm constantly hit with e-mails from South Dakota tourism to hunt pheasants and other birds and they mention any number of different towns to base out of. I can't speak to quail hunting since I've never done it, and your concerns may be valid about disclosing even general areas to hunt. I'm not finding that in pheasant/grouse/waterfowl country up this way. So if I ever cross paths with Scott down in SW MN, I'd be happy to take him along. I do about 80% of my hunting on public land and I'm not the only one who knows and hunts those places. I have found, to my delight, that if my party is the first on a piece of property, the other hunters move on - and we do the same if someone's ahead of us.
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby quailaddict » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:42 am

"May 20, 2017 I have done quail reports now for about 20 years and have met some neat people -- both online and in person. I do this purely as a labor of love for the Arizona outdoors and the birds we love to hunt. I NEVER talk about where to hunt and paint my reports with very wide brush strokes -- by design. Specific canyons, ridges, water sources, and especially towns are not mentioned.
And then comes along an article in the Summer Edition of QF Journal by Scott Linden,
"The Tonto National Forest near Globe will put you into Gambel's quail. . . ." in a national publication. Maybe I need to re-evaluate why I'm posting all this and what the consequences might be. The Tonto is a large area, but maybe not in today's world of e-scouters and outdoor writers meeting deadlines."

This a quote from this website: http://arizonaquailhuntingcamp.weebly.c ... ports.html


Interesting!
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Re: Arizona quail

Postby duckn66 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:24 pm

If you don't want to contribute anything then don't say anything. Easy enough. I'd personally rather not have my state "advertised" but it's a free country so what I would like and what I get are two different things. I'm not going to argue with anyone about it.

If you ever watched his show or any other show on tv, hunting upland birds, rarely are they freelance episodes. 95 percent of them are on preserves hunting planted birds. I would imagine it would take a couple of years worth of freelance hunts to put together a season of programming.

everyone knows how freelance hunting goes on public ground. Sometimes you wear them out and more often you don't. Unless your hunting prime private ground. Most times if you get permission on private ground so does everyone else who knocks on the door and is polite.

Good luck with your articles. I enjoy watching your shows more for entertainment than for any information.
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