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It takes birds to make a bird dog.

It takes birds to make a bird dog.

Postby weimdogman » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:24 pm

Super lucky to be here in South Dakota Pheasant Capitol of the World. Lucky enough to have time and access to areas to train my 3 weims who just turned a year old. Able to hunt great land with freinds and family. Last 2 weeks I have probably seen more birds then most see in a whole season. Lots of points,honors, and retreives. Some great , some needing real improvement.
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Re: It takes birds to make a bird dog.

Postby Nascon » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:04 pm

So true, I had to use pigeons for my Setter. It got so she would point every one I put out , she would run over grouse ,woodcock and pheasants.
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Re: It takes birds to make a bird dog.

Postby weimdogman » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:44 am

Nascon, funny thing I had plenty of pigeons, pen raised quail&chuckar to train with. My female pup wouldnt point them. Didnt really care to "hunt" for them. Maybe too much pressure too early?
Anyways first real contact with a wild pheasant while hunting and she was a grey statue. Have had no issues eversince.
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Re: It takes birds to make a bird dog.

Postby Dakotazeb » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:32 pm

Hey weimdog, I live in Watertown. Would love to find someone with a place and birds for training within a reasonable distance. I have a 2 year old Brittany that needs more bird work. If you are interested I'd love to train with you a few times in the off season. In addition to bird hunting I run my dog in NSTRA field trials. Ever thought of trying your Weim's in NSTRA?
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Re: It takes birds to make a bird dog.

Postby weimdogman » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:20 pm

This forum gives me fits
I have trouble posting and now it acts like you dont exist to pm.? So you pm me a phone number and we can chat.
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Location: brookings s.dak.

Re: It takes birds to make a bird dog.

Postby Sharon » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:28 pm

Weird. When I click on Dakota Zeb's name, I get the PM option , no problem. Sorry I can't help you.
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Re: It takes birds to make a bird dog.

Postby Dakotazeb » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:15 pm

weimdogman wrote:This forum gives me fits
I have trouble posting and now it acts like you dont exist to pm.? So you pm me a phone number and we can chat.


PM sent with my contact information.
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Re: It takes birds to make a bird dog.

Postby Featherfinder » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:27 pm

Nascon, the transition from pigeons to wild birds can take a number of encounters depending on the dog's savvy. It is normal for a dog to struggle INITIALLY. Now, if you have done the proper early training with pigeons, your dog will put the pieces together. I strictly use pigeons on early development. My dogs are very respectable on a wide range of wild birds, including the King.
Sadly, some dogs simply don't have the fabric/genetics to handle grouse efficiently and never will. I owned one that was an open FTCh. If they don't have the smarts, pace, coupled with the nose, you are in trouble hunting wild birds, especially grouse.
Last edited by Featherfinder on Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It takes birds to make a bird dog.

Postby weimdogman » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:17 pm

Sharon wrote:Weird. When I click on Dakota Zeb's name, I get the PM option , no problem. Sorry I can't help you.


From my Samsung8+ I can pm option it just wont send!
Also on most of my posts, I get a " string error" message? I can post a couple lines then come back with a edit to add to the original post.
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Re: It takes birds to make a bird dog.

Postby Sharon » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:44 pm

Pm sent
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Re: It takes birds to make a bird dog.

Postby DonF » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:00 am

Never had a problem turning dog's on to wild birds from pigeons. Usually a couple birds and the wild one's are good to go. I don't check cord dog's into birds either, I let them go on pigeon's in remote traps and do my best to make them act like wild birds. You'll find when switching over if you check cord your dog that you'll have fairly poor luck getting into wild birds! You make a pigeon act wild and the dog learns to handle wild birds. Make a pigeon a training bird and the change over will be harder.

You take your new pup into the field and it don't know wild from pen raised, you teach it that. It doesn't know a pheasant from a quail from a dicky bird! They learn from you. Number of people think the only way to train is on wild birds, don't agree but, if wild is all they know, at some point they will come around. If you make the pigeon act like a wild bird, all the pup then know's is wild birds. I've read a lot of time's about dog's that won't point pigeons. Not surprised, they were used as training birds. Idea is anything bad happens, it's a pigeon and you don't hunt them anyway! As a result the dog learns about training birds. Lot of people use pen raised game birds but the problem with them is they don't act wild either and allow the dog liberty's that a wild bird won't allow!

Had an old hunting friend come by with a setter that wasn't pointing a few weeks ago. Took 5 pigeon's and the dog was pointing. Hope he get's here some more. Keep it up and it will only take a couple wild birds and the dog will be good to go. You use a pigeon and teach the dog what a training bird not only act's like but also what it smell's like. Use the same pigeon like a wild bird and you teach the dog what a bird act's like!
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Re: It takes birds to make a bird dog.

Postby averageguy » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:49 pm

DonF wrote:Never had a problem turning dog's on to wild birds from pigeons. Usually a couple birds and the wild one's are good to go. I don't check cord dog's into birds either, I let them go on pigeon's in remote traps and do my best to make them act like wild birds. You'll find when switching over if you check cord your dog that you'll have fairly poor luck getting into wild birds! You make a pigeon act wild and the dog learns to handle wild birds. Make a pigeon a training bird and the change over will be harder.

You take your new pup into the field and it don't know wild from pen raised, you teach it that. It doesn't know a pheasant from a quail from a dicky bird! They learn from you. Number of people think the only way to train is on wild birds, don't agree but, if wild is all they know, at some point they will come around. If you make the pigeon act like a wild bird, all the pup then know's is wild birds. I've read a lot of time's about dog's that won't point pigeons. Not surprised, they were used as training birds. Idea is anything bad happens, it's a pigeon and you don't hunt them anyway! As a result the dog learns about training birds. Lot of people use pen raised game birds but the problem with them is they don't act wild either and allow the dog liberty's that a wild bird won't allow!

Had an old hunting friend come by with a setter that wasn't pointing a few weeks ago. Took 5 pigeon's and the dog was pointing. Hope he get's here some more. Keep it up and it will only take a couple wild birds and the dog will be good to go. You use a pigeon and teach the dog what a training bird not only act's like but also what it smell's like. Use the same pigeon like a wild bird and you teach the dog what a bird act's like!


x2.

All my pups have pointed pigeons intensely at an early age because I present them as a wild bird. Me staying silent letting the pup have private interaction with the pigeon just as it would with a wild bird, no check cord, no whoa, no caught birds. My setups are in natural cover which I believe also plays a key role in my work.

I also put my pups into wild birds along the way. Getting them pointing pigeons first, then shooting the pigeons has prepared them to do well early on in their encounters with wild bobwhites and pheasants.
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Re: It takes birds to make a bird dog.

Postby CDN_Cocker » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:05 pm

I have pigeons... not exclusively for dog training as I only use culls for that. My passion for racing pigeons is just as strong or stronger than my passion for dog training. Even though I have a ton of pigeons in the loft I rarely use them. I am fortunate though that I can walk out the back door and have the dog on wild birds within 10 minutes... although I cannot shoot those grouse and woodcock due to my close proximity to town. But contacts are contacts.
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