Gun Dog Forum

I'm doing a little research just to justify my existence among my circle of hunting buddies. I've asked this question on a couple of other forums that I frequent, so if you've seen it there and responded, thx, no need to respond again. If you haven't seen it before I'd love to hear what you have to say on the topic.

I was taught as a young hunter to hunt slow and steady with a lot of stops and starts to make the birds nervous and let the dogs do their things without pressure from behind. I've held to that methodology for most of my 60 years. But several of the folks I hunt with seem to feel it's a race with their dogs to the other side of the cover.

I have 3 big running setters, but I've taught them to stay in touch with me, go at my pace and check in from time to time. I now have the Garmin Astro DC-30 on all of them so I pretty much know where they are all the time anyway. I have full confidence that between the 3 of them they are going to cover the ground thoroughly and find whatever's there, at least most of what's there.

So I feel no urgency in moving through the cover. I take my time, stop to enjoy the scenery, enjoy watching the dogs work and move to them when needed. I simply don't relate to being in such a hurry to get through the cover and move on to the next field.

But several of the guys I hunt with feel very differently. They are of the opinion that miles = birds and they walk through a field at a pace I could never keep up with even in my younger days.

I find myself going off on my own and just plan on getting back to the truck about the same time they do. I've never done a formal count but it sure seems like we all end up with about the same number of birds on the tailgate at the end of the day.

So how do you prefer to hunt, fast or slow, and why? I would like to know if I'm in the minority or majority here.

Much like you, I hunt slow....for several reasons. First and foremost is I'm not a spring chicken anymore and have a lung issue that slows me down. But even before that, I have never been a meat hunter and don't care whether I limit out....to me hunting is about the experience and enjoyment, and I never enjoyed foot races. At the end of the day, I've generally had plenty of opportunities at birds to make it interesting. If I have to do the miles=birds conversion, I look for a more productive place!!!

Randy

I think it is a real shame when people judge the quality of the hunt by the number of birds they shoot. To me hunting is much like a lot of other things and quality outweighsquanity many times over. I am in the field to enjoy the environment and watch the dogs and hope it culminates in a couple of birds in my game bag. But more importantly is time spent with friends, family,and the dogs. I do like to carry a gun but could do very well with a camera instead and I will have a record of the greatest hunts a lot longer than the ones with a gun. The hunt I am looking for everytime out is the one where the dogs just flat take your breath away withtheir effort in finding a bird for us.

I don't need to hurry when I am hunting because whatever else we have to do after we are through is not going to be anywhere near as fun or satifing as being right there with the things I love.

Ezzy

well said ezzy- I've taken the camera instead of the gun a few times- it's a totally different outing- and quite enjoyable to not be thinking of killing- some mightly fine bird dog work to boot- sometimes I feel it's better

ezzy333 wrote: The hunt I am looking for everytime out is the one where the dogs just flat take your breath away with their effort in finding a bird for us.

Ezzy

I better send you a pony bottle (diver's small emergency air supply bottle) oxygen tank for Christmas!

I hunt at a medium pace because I've had eight significant orthopaedic injuries and even more surguries. One time I spoent 12 mos. on crutches, another time I spent 17 mos. on crutches. I've had a 3/4 T pickup with an 11 1/2' pick-up camper, loaded with 100 gallons of gas and 30 gallons of water crush my spine & then roll across my hip, chest & shoulder, splitting my sternum. .... and that's only the half of it ... but I'm the luckiest man alive ... anyone else would've been dead by now! I had to take off my T-shirt that says "Capacity - 4 1/2 tons" so I could put on my new Gundog Forum T-shirt.

I like to take it slow but my AA bred dog starts giving me that hustle up, would you look if I don't move fast enough for her!

geeses- you're gifted just to be able to get out-

had a loaded gasoline tanker truck run over me-

couple crushed vertabreas

Shadow - Youch!

Now if weight-wise my training regime will result in me being just a "shadow" of my current self by fall, I'll be tickled pink and moving quicker.

Really though, even back when I was training or in sports competitions virtually year around I preferred to hunt more slowly but I think that was in part because for a period of time I had no dogs. When hunting grouse along logging roads I could get them nervous and flushing by just walking slowly and stopping periodically. Once a dog goes on point I can't see any reason to take my own sweet time getting to the point. I'm of the opinion my dogs aren't going to find any more birds because I force them to work slower & closer.

It depends on how much time I have to hunt. There are times when I have all day to get the job done and times when I have a couple of hours. If I have all day, I like to take my time as there is no hurry. When I have a short time, I move faster as I like the dogs to get their run in. The nice part is that the dogs know the difference.

What I find interesting is that those who think that a dog has to cover alot of ground or it isn't a hunt, tend to have dogs that can't find birds or have dogs that won't hold when on point. Point is that a dog should find birds whether it is moving fast or slow. Too many times I have been surprised by a bird that a fast moving, big hunting dog has missed.

I'm not in a race to get through cover but I do like to keep moving. I've hunted with guys who like to slow way down when the dogs are getting birdy or spend a lot of time in thick cover. I figure the dogs know when to stop or slow down. I don't gauge the fun of a hunt by the # of birds I shoot but I am there to shoot birds! And I'm positive that my dogs like it when I shoot birds as well!

3Britts wrote:
What I find interesting is that those who think that a dog has to cover alot of ground or it isn't a hunt, tend to have dogs that can't find birds or have dogs that won't hold when on point. Point is that a dog should find birds whether it is moving fast or slow. Too many times I have been surprised by a bird that a fast moving, big hunting dog has missed.

there's the reason I've always liked mine swinging back around- say you hit a good sized field and they take off using their noses- meaning the head is up and they're eating up ground- feel it's them trying to find scent- you know- yours is flying then slams to a point- agree with you on one point- maybe the owners don't think their dog can hold point so have to hurry to keep close- or corral the dog by constant hacking- and then there's the ones who just don't have noses

if there's a lot of scent around- meaning birds have been there- most fast dogs will slow down- not necessarily though- depends on the nose and confidence
we've all seen it-

it's the slow ones who think they have to really search out everything- sort of because that's the way their owner made them do it- or that they don't have the nose

you have to chuckle at some- they call the dog in to search hard- knowing there's a bird there- while another dog just blast through- because there isn't

I quail hunt with two English setters I try to cover as much ground as possible when i get to a good looking spot or one where i have found a covey in the past i slow down, i try to relate this to bass fishing cover a lot of ground/water when i get to a point/cover (structure) slow down. when hunting a crp field look for structure, point, ditch, a tree/bushes pond any type od structure. make sure the dogs cover this good

My personal experience is with dogs that really know what they're doing, understand the terrain, know objectives, have good noses and know how to work the cover. They are not run-offs in the field but vary their speed considerably based upon the cover and what they are scenting. These dogs seem to be able to tell when birds are hanging tough and when they are running. On a tree line for example, when the dog knows after scenting a portion of the tree line that all of the birds are running to the end, by experience the dog picks up the pace to hold the birds before they break cover and head off 30 m.p.h. across a road, an open space or thin cover of some kind. Based upon experience when I've held the dog back, we've gotten to the end of the cover ... the birds are gone ... and the dog wants to head off to the posted land across the road. When I read the dog right, it goes zipping ahead and points birds say 250 yards ahead, well off of the birds ... in a thin patch of cover at the end of a treel ine. Now at the beginning of the season with more young birds and fewer educated birds, in this situation the birds at the end tend to hold better. At the end of the season when you are hunting mature, educated trophy birds, its stormy & very windy, these birds are very nervous. Even though the dog doesn't break point these birds may take off if you lollygag. If you have a dog that's gone on false points or that you can tell has hit hot scent a number of times but you held the dog in and worked the area very carefully only to come up without a point is that the handler's fault or the dog's?

These same dogs when they get into an area with lots of hot scent work back and forth, often at a different speed. A really good, experienced dog knows what it's doing and the less I handle them the better.

Of course there is no universal right or wrong, too much depends upon the type of cover, the birds being hunted, early or late in the season, weather conditions, how good the dog is, whether it's young and inexperienced or very experienced, etc. If your pointing dog crowds birds or doesn't hold point, has a bad nose or if your flusher on scent is too fast for you to keep up with or you can't hold it back, likely you will try to handle your dog to maximize your chances of getting close to game.

There are snobs in every crowd. If someone wants to criticize you, the dog or it's training without offering to help you're better off without that person diminishing your hunting experience. What matters to me is whether I, my fellow hunters afield and the dogs have a good time. We generally fill out but if we don't, we don't care as long as everyone had a good time. Of course the dogs are a lot happier if we down some birds for them!

well said - totally enjoyed reading that-

I'd say you and yours have a great time afield

setterbud wrote:I quail hunt with two English setters I try to cover as much ground as possible when i get to a good looking spot or one where i have found a covey in the past i slow down, i try to relate this to bass fishing cover a lot of ground/water when i get to a point/cover (structure) slow down. when hunting a crp field look for structure, point, ditch, a tree/bushes pond any type od structure. make sure the dogs cover this good

I think back to the years I was running three Britt's and an E Setter strictly after quail every weekend- helps that I have a 20X30 wall poster of them on point

I never bothered to go slow or fast- just go- liked big sections of land- course it helped that they all had manners

Speed is determined by several factors, mostly by the cover, and the time of year. But also factor in who I am hunting with and what dogs I have on the ground. Overall I would say that I walk at a faster pace than most people, but its not cause I am in a hurry to get anywhere its more that I am FREAKIN HYPER ACTIVE. I always thought I might calm down after 30 but I think it might be getting worse.

maybe when you hit 60 eh

I've always liked still hunting big game- so sort of the same bird hunting- plus- you never know what might or might not be in view

I like to move. Before I started to hunting I loved hiking and covering ground. Now I do it with a dog and a gun. Sometimes I don't find birds (usually do) but at least I get a good workout and see lots of country.

One of my goals for the last few years has been to hike to the top of a peak and on the way up kill a ruffed and a blue. On the way down I would take a different route and hit the cliffs and cheat grass and take a chukar. I have yet to make it happen in one trip but there are a few places in my parts where I have taken all three on the same mountain and I am hopefull that one day I will take all three in one hike.

I also like to hike into my spots quite a ways, before I moved up to the north part of the state I had a few spots that required a longer hike than drive. I would get up at 5am and hike for 2 hours to get into the hot spots. I think I may have found something similar today as I hiked a few miles and was lucky enough to hear a lot of drumming. As I headed back down I rolled my ankle but that is part of the game.

From time to time I will take it slow, especially when I know birds are in an area but when there is ground to cover and birds could be anywhere I let my dog get out and we move.

There is no right or wrong way to do it, Just figure out what you are after and have at it.

Before, I started hunting with dogs back in the 70's, I was taught to walk slow and stop in a spot I might get a shot off, look listen for 30 seconds or so, depends, then move on another 20 or 30 yards, shot a lot of grouse that way. Then I started working and found my time limited so I would hurry out after work or on the week end and hurry through a cover then to the next etc. shot far fewer grouse. And no real enjoyment.

Then I got a Britt Hardwood adie, The biggest pain in the as$$ stinky and so on. But she brought me back to slow and steady. I let the dogs run the show, they find the new covers, they find new places to go. I just am there to drive the truck.

I had a car run over my leg and ankle when I was 18, (Pit party), did not reall bother me until I got to about 33 or so. That has slowed me down and today more so. (Hope the down hill progression does not contiue) I find more birds walking slow, letting my dogs run their own pace as the cover and birds allow. I watch them when I can, look around, enjoy the sounds of the woods and my dogs working, I get relaxed, Usually smiling. I love the smell of the woods in the fall. The pace is slower, the bird finds are higher, usually, and when they are not I am still happy and content. Working slow, also seems to give me better shots on the birds we do mangage to get a crack at.

Deer hunting, I always would try to push hard and make the deer make a mistake, that was fun.. Grouse, it is about something different, slow and steady for me as a matter of physical need and more so mental need.

Shadow and BigS glad you guys are here to share.

Speed is a relative thing. What may be fast to you may be slow to me. I don't think about it. I hunt the way it feels best and I am guessing that would be slow for most of you. Every trip to the field with the dogs is an adventure odf pure enjoyment and the longer it lasts the better. I want to see, hear, and smell the world around me and watch the dogs work. Hopefully we find a couple of birds that the dogs handle well. But every trip is a wonderful day to be remembered.

How fast do we hunt? I have no idea and have never thought about it as it just doesn't enter in to what makes the day.

Ezzy

I go along at a pretty good clip, just to keep in contact with my hounds usually. I have slowed down a little in the last few years because I am old and fat...I used to just be fat, but I go as fast as I can safely walk

ymepointer wrote:I go along at a pretty good clip, just to keep in contact with my hounds usually. I have slowed down a little in the last few years because I am old and fat...I used to just be fat, but I go as fast as I can safely walk

Are your gundogs hounds or was that just a figure of speech?

I've been told that I hunt pretty fast. To me it seems like a normal pace.

Hunting slow and stopping to make birds nervous is a good technique for hunting dogless. With good dogs - what's the point? Let the dogs work the birds.

I like to keep moving when I hunt, but will stop and stand if I feel like it. I will also move on out at 5 mph if the next cover dictates it.

slistoe wrote:Hunting slow and stopping to make birds nervous is a good technique for hunting dogless. With good dogs - what's the point? Let the dogs work the birds.

I like to keep moving when I hunt, but will stop and stand if I feel like it. I will also move on out at 5 mph if the next cover dictates it.

good post-if you have a boot polisher and need to direct it suppose you could hunt slow and fast- depending on where you knew birds were

I follow my dogs and hunt at their speed.
Thanks
Terry

I agree with Ezzy's comment. The number of birds killed shouldn't be the object that makes a hunt. Personally I like to see a dog stretch their legs, run big, and about take a tumble when they hit point. Some dogs run big, and that's it. I actually had a conversation with a horseback guy recently who actually is trying to take some nose out of his line, so they wont get as many points. Also, if the dog checks in with you say every 5 mins, whats the problem especially with the new Garmin? When we went to SD last year, we would lose sight of the dogs for 10-15 mins to find them on point 3/4 mi away. I understand this isnt practical in most hunting situations, but I loved it. Watching those pointers and setters tear through the CRP and tree lines racing one another to the next point. At one point, and I have the picture somewhere my buddy's 3 were lost for 15 mins to find them pointing and backing one another in a gully leading to a creek. Talk about a pleasant surprise.

Most people would think I hunt fast, but to me i am moving at a very normal pace. People might say i move quick, but it's not like i am tiring myself out just to move fast. I go the same speed at the end of a hunt as i did in the beginning, which i guess is fast. The same thing happens when i am golfing, hiking or biking. I just go out and move and alot of people have a hard time keeping up, when i go their pace it seems really slow to me.

As far as it not mattering whether or not i shoot birds kind of depends on where i hunt. When i pay $10 for a bird i don't mind not filling my bag. When i have to pay $20 or more, gettting my limit seems alot more important!

slistoe wrote:Hunting slow and stopping to make birds nervous is a good technique for hunting dogless. With good dogs - what's the point? Let the dogs work the birds.

I like to keep moving when I hunt, but will stop and stand if I feel like it. I will also move on out at 5 mph if the next cover dictates it.

When I hunt with people that rarely or have never hunted with dogs, I normally find that they move at a much slower speed. I have found on many occasions though with pheasants moving slowly or stopping at the end of a large field is effective in putting very tight sitting birds to flight.

I agree with the statement "miles kill birds". But I have to say that it is not a race once your in bird territory. I prefer to let the dog hunt. I believe that it also depends on what species of bird you are hunting, and what breed of dog you are running. Like a big running setter or pointer on pheasants. If you have one of these locked up on a wiley rooster, 100+ yrds. away, you may want to get your but in gear, because it may run off and leave your dog pointing nothing. I even move faster when my lab is chasing a wild rooster.

At 68 I am not as fast as I used to be. Then again my GSP lady and I manage to get our share of quail. So far-So good!

First of all Shagrunner this is an excellent post.
I am not into numbers and my bag will be what it will be but we all like to catch and with that in mind i think there are 2 types of hunters, Shooters and Dog Men.
I am a Dog man and its all about the dog work for me, so i hunt at a reasonable pace for the dog to range or quarter at there preferred pace as this in its self is good to see but every now and then slow right down just to prove that i can and to remind the dogs that they are under my total control, when i am satisfied that this is so, we carry on as before, obviously this all changes depending upon Land and Terrain and when the dogs finally accept this training on open Fell / moore land, it is a really useful tool when hunting slower going thick Woodland.

Dave.

I wouldn't say I hunt slow, it's probably a medium speed. I'm down to one dog these days and you can only push one dog so hard and still let it cover the country adequately. Besides that, I'm getting old and enjoy mosying along.

The first time I ever hunted pheasants over a GSP I was 17 yrs old and the guy I was hunting with after walking some distance through a feild yells to me c'mon hes on point. To my suprise he took off running toward the dog full speed. I tried to keep up but my hand me down coveralls and oversized boots were wanting to come right off. He got down there way before me and up comes 7 or 8 birds he unloaded and winged one of them. I was still too far away to shoot. We finished that feild and headed to another and the same thing happened again, c'mon he's pointing. I ran until i thought my heart was going to explode got within 20 yrds of the dog and bumped up a couple myself. I unloaded my 870 pump and did not hit a darn thing. As he was raggin me about my shooting ability I thought it was a good time to rag him about his dog. Heres the lesson I learned.

#1 Never talk bad about another mans dog.
#2 Hunt the way you enjoy.

It was a quiet ride home and I was never invited to hunt with that guy again, not that I feel I missed out on much. I personally was taught not to run with a loaded weapon. I now have my own dog who works medium to close range and I take my time. If I get half way through a feild and all the birds jump out the end oh well. I enjoyed being out there, some are not as lucky as I am.

Shag, my legs are just longer than yours...get over it! And you walk slower so you can read the screens on all the electronics you carry around with you . If I could afford all that crap I'd have to walk slower too. And, you SHOULD count better. I shoot more birds than you do...I feel like I have to shoot all the birds your dogs bump since we're all hunting way out in front of you together!

And guys, we are in the field hunting birds. You know, with our bird hunting dogs! Enjoying the beauty of nature and shooting birds are NOT mutually exclusive activities. In fact, for me anyway, the flapping ears and wagging tail and shivering frenzy of a birdy pup, the beauty of a point/find, the sound and fury of the flush, the flight of the bird, the report and the aroma of exploding gunpowder, the fall, the retrieve...all of these sensory experiences enhance the glory of a day afield!.

I love to be outdoors as much as anyone and I thoroughly enjoy the thrill it brings to all my senses. That joy is in no way diminished by shooting a limit of birds...nor even by an anxious desire to do so...nor by walking a little faster than most.

And, although I walk fast by some folks' standards, I am not capable of walking so fast that nature whizzes past me unnoticed or under-appreciated. And, whether I walk 2 miles per hour or 5, my dog can still work the cover thoroughly. I could not walk fast enough to force Gus to run a straight line though thick cover and miss birds (although he does that sometimes ).

In the end, we all have our pace. If I had to concentrate on or worry about walking at some nonexistent "correct" pace...now that COULD take the enjoyment out of hunting for me.

Shag, I can't wait to hunt with you next week on the dove opener! Love ya, cuz!