Wolf or Coyote???

rpheifer · Post by **rpheifer** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:13 pm

A friend of mine had this show up on his trailcam and was wondering if it is a wolf or coyote. What do you think?

Thanks.

natetnc · Post by **natetnc** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:36 pm

ears look a bit pointed for a wolf.... most likely a coyote

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:12 pm

Probably a coydog. Too big boned for a yote and too nicely coated. A wolf would normally be longer legged.

Ezzy

shume · Post by **shume** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:01 pm

I'm no expert but judging by the head I would have to say young wolf. Doesn't look like the head of a coyote to me at all. I know its hard to tell in a picture but it looks a bit large and big boned even for a large coyote.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:09 pm

Doesn't look like a wolf to me, but also looks a little leggy for a coyote. I am guessing [and that is all it is] it is a coydog.

Charlie

MTO4Life · Post by **MTO4Life** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:18 pm

Has the pointy ears and snout of a coyote, but I agree... it looks quite leggy. I would say coydog as well.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:56 pm

Being that you are in WI would say that is a coyote, looks like a big coyote but in WI and other parts of the northern US coyotes can get bigger than some of us are accustomed to.

twofeathers · Post by **twofeathers** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:26 pm

Looks like coydog to me. Legs are pretty long.

Meller · Post by **Meller** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:33 am

Coyote!

Post by **kninebirddog** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:16 am

looks like a close shot of an all to healthy sized yote

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:07 am

The jaw and muzzle structure looks all wrong to be a coyote. Also very big boned for a yote. Another thing, look at the paws. Look at the size of them. It is a young wolf that is going to grow into those paws or a coydog or even possibly a wolf hybrid- wolf/dog- cross. Also looks a lot like a Red Wolf rather than a gray or timber. Here is an example I pulled from the net with an exerpt from the site.

red wolf.jpg

This is a photograph of a Red Wolf, Canis rufus, taken by Barron Crawford. The Red Wolf's historic range extended from Texas to Florida then north to Carolina, Kentucky, Illinois and Missouri. Red Wolves were considered extinct in the wild by 1980. Thanks to the Red Wolf Recovery Plan, Canis Rufus is now making quite a comeback.

Here is a better one that really resembles that pic from your trail cam. I think anyway.

redwolf 2.jpg

Nebraska · Post by **Nebraska** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:11 pm

I'm not sure but it's much easier to tell from bed of a pickup!!!

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:16 pm

Nebraska wrote:I'm not sure but it's much easier to tell from bed of a pickup!!!

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:20 pm

I know they are mostly a southern species being raised in captivity right now till they have a breeding pack big enough to release but I just thought it looked a lot like that bottom pic. Supposedly we don't have mountain lions where I live in Oklahoma but there have been reports of them as well as tracks so you never know. I believe my eyes before I believe wildlife biologist reports.

Could be a young gray wolf. Kind of small but I guess size varies among the subspecies according to an ariticle I read.

Gray wolves' head and body length is 40 to 58 inches (1 to 1.5 meters), plus a tail 13 to 20 inches long (one-third to half a meter). Their weight varies greatly by subspecies, ranging from 40 to 175 pounds (18 to 79 kg), with an average between 60 to 100 pounds (27 to 45 kg).

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:06 pm

Now you are on MY topic

Red wolves are only living in the wild in an area in which they were re-introduced in North Carolina. Alligator River refuge to be exact. They are still very much an endangered species with only several hundred wild wolves today. And sadly the coyote has moved over the whole US and is now interbreeding with the red wolf in their only refuge left, so in a few decades or less the species will probably not be able to be differentiated from the coyote. the red wolf program was one of the nations most extreme species survival plans. ALL wild red wolves were collected to be bred into captivity, and many ( most) were removed from the potential breeding population due to conern that they may be hybrid wolf/coyotes, even at that early time. Scientists at the time classified them into 3 supspcies with some arguing the one of them was a seperate species. That will probably remain a mystery as only the one species remains now. Canis Rufus. After determining which wolves would go into the breeding program, there were less than 100 hundred to start a program with intent of re-establishing an entire species. Two other sites were tried in the reintroduction, both went poorly due to habitat challenges and poor public education. The first barely started and the second , Great Smokey Mountains National Park lasted for a number of years but the overmature forest did not provide the open forest edge diversity needed for their prey. They are normally not deer hunters, though they will take fawns regularly and adults if they can. They do not remain in large packs like their gray wolf cousin, but hunt much more closely to coyote style, (actually very very similar to the African Jackal socially speaking) with a mated pair and this year's young, so they could not survive on the plentiful deer in the cove, and there was not enough small game holding areas that they could hunt with skill. Both other sites were completely abandoned and all ramaining wolves were removed from these sites and moved to Alligator River or replaced into captivity to remain in breeding.

So if you found a red wolf in Wisconsin you just had your self one cool wildlife encounter.

My vote is coydog also, but I am not used to seeing coyotes so far north, being from an area where they stay pretty small (average 35 lbs) and lanky. But crafty as always.

Sorry for the novella, but this is hard for me to pass up.

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:14 pm

I should note that their social behavior has been shifting from the reports from early scientists and they are holding packs longer and hunting in packs more frequently than originally thought, though you still will not see the very large packs that the gray wolf will form.

snips · Post by **snips** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:11 pm

Dang Laurie! You must have too much free time on your hands!!!

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:57 pm

gpblitz wrote:I live a area where we have the largest t- wolve pop. in the lower 48 and have had the opportunity to have encounter many timber wolves in my life time in the wild. Some within 25 ft paced off pouncing on my dog in front of me. I've been surounded by them coming out of the woods at dark with the T- wolves howling back and forth as they closed in.

I must be weird because I would consider it a privilege to be that close to nature and especially a pack of wild wolves. To experience something like that would truely be an honor for me anyway. I guess I am strange that way though.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:10 am

tommyboy72 wrote:
gpblitz wrote:I live a area where we have the largest t- wolve pop. in the lower 48 and have had the opportunity to have encounter many timber wolves in my life time in the wild. Some within 25 ft paced off pouncing on my dog in front of me. I've been surounded by them coming out of the woods at dark with the T- wolves howling back and forth as they closed in.
I must be weird because I would consider it a privilege to be that close to nature and especially a pack of wild wolves. To experience something like that would truely be an honor for me anyway. I guess I am strange that way though.

It woul be an honor to you right up to the time they ate your dogs and you wonder if you are next. Any of us dream about those type of encounters but till you are there and know you have have absolutely no control over what is going to happen next, you probably can't imagine just how you would feel.

Ezzy

Sir Buckwheat · Post by **Sir Buckwheat** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:19 am

Nebraska wrote:I'm not sure but it's much easier to tell from bed of a pickup!!!

I was just thinking a "Ground Check" would be the only way to tell for sure...have him let us know when he finds out!! Just make sure he has a shovel with him just in case...

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:35 am

It seems to me, like a young wolf. Timber/gray. feet too big, Legs too long, snout too long, coat to uniform, shoulder too high etc.

If you look at the tree behind the wolf, it is around an 8" caliper tree, which would make the shoulder height at around 28 to 30". Using and appoximate scale.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:51 am

Ruff you watch too much CSI.

Just kidding.

natetnc · Post by **natetnc** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:44 am

was lucky enough to see a lone red wolf in cades cove when they first started the re-introduction, it was a neat experience. heard they didn't succeed with the re-introduction there, it only took several years to show that, last i heard the elk were doing good though.

t-boy, nature is a cool thing but lets be honest and say the dangers are also something to be respected.

tdhusker · Post by **tdhusker** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:08 am

Head and neck are not proportionate to a coyote. Legs aren't proportionate for a wolf. Coydog.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:44 pm

gpblitz, about one experience like that would be enough to last me for a life time. I would probably have to travel out of state to hunt in the future.

Charlie

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:13 pm

I've been close to both T-wolves & brush wolves (coyotes) in the wild. I've even had the proverbial exhilarating close encounter with my pants down under a pine tree with my gun just out of reach. I've seen yotes almost that large however coyotes normally carry their tail down except during an agressive display. I've also seen lone timbers during the summer & early fall. Looks more like a timber or a hybrid.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:57 am

looks like an adult coyote who's about filled up on the bait pile

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:40 am

Coyotes normally carry their tail down except during an agressive display.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:53 pm

you could be right- I've been around wild wolves, brush wolves, and coyotes- sure doesn't look like any Timber wolves I've seen

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:08 pm

Definitely a "tweener". I think that's why a few folks have suggested a hybrid of some sort.

BdBHunts · Post by **BdBHunts** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:58 pm

I think it may make a nice rug in a few months time when the pelt thickens up.

Windyhills · Post by **Windyhills** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:20 pm

Would like to see a bit more but my money would be on timber wolf. Looks like a youngster to me. We don't have much for coyote dog hybrids here, unlike out east where they are more common.

Emptypair · Post by **Emptypair** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:41 pm

Once you live in an area with wolves and coyotes, it's pretty easy to tell them apart. The pic you have is a wolf. It's the overall height (legs) and size of the head/nose that's the tell in that pic. Like it was said..the coat isn't that thick. Probably taken later in summer or early fall?? Here's a "similar" profile of a coyote from Northern WI taken the first week of September this year (don't be fooled by the size...this was a close up pic of an average coyote). Notice how pointy the nose is and how low to the ground the body is.

Coyote.JPG

This other pic is a wolf from October of last year. You can see how much the coat has filled out by that time.

Wolf.jpg

The wolf has become a common part of life anywhere North of 8...and they are heading South!! All you have to do is ask anyone that runs dogs (birds, bears, or hares)...the wolf doesn't end up being as awe inspiring as the "naturalists" would have you believe. They are the most ruthless predators because there's no ProPlan waiting for them at the end of the day. Speaking of which...my dogs need to eat

Winglish · Post by **Winglish** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:32 pm

Google image the word "coywolf".

xNF · Post by **xNF** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:07 am

I'd lean towards a hybrid between,but if you told me to choose one of the two I'd say a coyote. That would be a great coyote to shoot up here in ND.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:02 am

I think it's a young wolf. The head is too big for a coyote. They're all over Wi. now, even up here in Door County. We've had two shot so far.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:06 am

good question- when was the picture taken

south of Bemidji during deer season you'd see wolves walking- brush wolves- when Mr Timber Wolf is arround you know it

just like what was said in a movie one time- you'll know the difference when you see one

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:14 am

Emptypair wrote:Once you live in an area with wolves and coyotes, it's pretty easy to tell them apart. The pic you have is a wolf. It's the overall height (legs) and size of the head/nose that's the tell in that pic. Like it was said..the coat isn't that thick. Probably taken later in summer or early fall?? Here's a "similar" profile of a coyote from Northern WI taken the first week of September this year (don't be fooled by the size...this was a close up pic of an average coyote). Notice how pointy the nose is and how low to the ground the body is.
Coyote.JPG

This other pic is a wolf from October of last year. You can see how much the coat has filled out by that time.
Wolf.jpg
The wolf has become a common part of life anywhere North of 8...and they are heading South!! All you have to do is ask anyone that runs dogs (birds, bears, or hares)...the wolf doesn't end up being as awe inspiring as the "naturalists" would have you believe. They are the most ruthless predators because there's no ProPlan waiting for them at the end of the day. Speaking of which...my dogs need to eat

not all coyotes look like that

how do you feel about coyotes and Timber Wolves in the same area- last reports seem to suggest they are competitors- you feel a coyote will hang arround where Timber Wolves are- also like to know if up there if Timber Wolves would rather breed with a coyote or eat it

Emptypair · Post by **Emptypair** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:12 pm

Well...until wolves learn to speak English...I'd have no idea what they would want to do with a coyote. Coyotes have always been a part of the Wisconsin landscape. The reintroduction of the wolf has been a huge success. I'm not a wolf biologist, but I'd think their co-existance is like a highschool dance. So long as there are lots of girls (prey), the senior guys (wolves) don't mind if the freshman boys (coyotes) hang around the gym. If there are only a few girls that night...well, things get interesting.

Wolves and coyotes are both found in Wisconsin.

Here's a couple of interesting links with detailed pictures and descriptions...even some hybrids!

http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/er/mammals/wolf/

http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/er/mammals/w ... cation.htm

http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/er/mammals/wolf/wolf_map.htm

woodedareas · Post by **woodedareas** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:09 am

It is not a coyote or a wolf. It is a dog, and very well groomed at that.

Ken Lynch · Post by **Ken Lynch** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:47 am

For what it is worth here is a photo of a well fed Hudson Valley Coyote taken at 1:24 AM 11/06/2009.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:49 am

very nice

Tas · Post by **Tas** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:15 pm

rpheifer wrote:A friend of mine had this show up on his trailcam and was wondering if it is a wolf or coyote. What do you think?

Thanks.

I have called in and killed a number of coyotes and I guarantee that is not a coyote.

Wolves do not cohabitate with coyotes. Wolves will go out of their way to kill a coyote even when they are not hungry. Wolves do cohabitate with fox.

Fowlplay · Post by **Fowlplay** » Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:07 pm

I don't think it's even close...definitely a wolf.

Tas · Post by **Tas** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:14 am

gpblitz wrote:Where are you from?

Tas wrote:Wolves do not cohabitate with coyotes. Wolves will go out of their way to kill a coyote even when they are not hungry.
We have a fair number of both Timber wolves and Coyotes were I live. (Iron Range Northern Minnesota) The two do co-habitate here. They run the same ridges, fields, and swamps. True the T wolves will
kill a yolder and go out of there way to do it.

Wi.

Wolves and coyotes can be in the same area until the coyote gets to close. Wolves do not tolerate coyotes. Wolves do tolerate fox's. Hence they cohabitate with fox's but not coyotes. If what you are witnessing is considered cohabitating then they cohabitate with sheep also.

smilinicon · Post by **smilinicon** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:35 am

I don't know.

Thread reminds me of the saying "opinions are like --------, everyone has one", but I bet if you asked a number of Naturalists the same question, you would get just as many answers. It is an interesting picture, thanks for sharing it. Really more interested in the vizslas, but I'll stay on topic

Ken Lynch · Post by **Ken Lynch** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:58 pm

I know that I should let sleeping dogs sleep.... A friend just passed me a link to an interesting artical. Just adds some creedence to what I have suspected for what is hear in the East.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massac ... paign=8315

Birddog3412 · Post by **Birddog3412** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:51 pm

gpblitz wrote:Coyote, Wrong body structure for a young timber. a young timber would be leggier, longer in the body and heivier boned. Looks like a mature coyote to me

Id say coyote also, not leggy enough for a wolf.

ecater2218 · Post by **ecater2218** » Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:15 pm

dualsetter · Post by **dualsetter** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:52 am

Looks like a hybrid. We have a huge population here in upstate NY. Apparently lupus has been known to slide south, out of the Algonquin Provincial Park in late winter and crosses the frozen St. Lawrence river. Coywolfs or whatever you want to call them are impressive.