Gun Dog Forum

I was talking to a gentleman, who lives near Boise Idaho,
He hunts chucker in Idaho and Oregon for 2-3 months 5 days a week and Mearns quail in Arizona for few months

As I was talking to him and he ask me questions about our dogs feet toughness to take on very rooky terrain, and the Arizona desert gravel, and the stamina to hunt in warm weather for 5 days a week and for 5-6 months, of course I don’t hunt in this aria so I dint give any opinions

He understands the dog has to be on a top conditions before the hunting season starts, but he has questions if the DK/GSP has strong and tuff quality paws to last all day in this kind of terrain
At the moment he hunts with American Brittany’s FT lines, train to hunt, he has not been very satisfy with them; he was thinking to try the DK/GSP for possible better results on feet and stamina. And of course the rest of the good traits
I don’t live near Boise so my dogs and I we don’t have any experience on this kind terrain; I know some of you live and hunt this terrains and have experiences for this kind of hunting grounds, can you give some info?, you have to know he hunts for about 25 days a month and he wants dog to hunt all day not only for few hours

Thank you
Manny

field trial line of britts and he's not happy- maybe you could invite him to get on this forum
I'd sure like to hear what he has to say

I live out here in "spudland" and alot of our hunting is done on volcanic soils and exposed basalt, granite and lava. I've owned a number of breeds including GSP's and have hunted with Brits out here and none had paw problems if they were conditioned. Conditioning usually consisted of running dogs on that type of terrain for at least a month before the season and working up to a couple of hours a day. The biggest problem I've seen with paws is broken nails and nasty vegetation getting in between the pups toes. Brits may have more a problem with this if the hair around toes has not been trimmed. I've have also hunted southern Utah in Mohave type vegetation and again the only problem was the vegetation in the paws.

I don't think feet toughness has anything to do with a breed but dogs within that breed. Some dogs just don't have good feet. I consider my dogs to have good feet (GSP's) but even they will still tear up their feet.

If your buddy is hunting 25 days a month that in its self might be more of the problem. Tell him to buy a couple more dogs so that he doesn't over work what he has

Casper, I agree that might be one of the problems. Even if the dogs are working less than 3 hours a day that's alot of wear and tear on their feet without the healing time needed.

By the way Casper how was the chukar season down your way this season? I used to live in Winnemucca and I sure miss chasing those birds on a regular basis.

I live in Boise and hunt chukar once maybe twice a week in the Owhyee area in ID and OR. This area has a lot of lava rock and granite. Only once did one of my dogs have a problem. And a friend who chukar hunts 2 to 4 times a week with Gordons has no issues at all. There are times he'll hunt several days in a row. I would agree that it's more likely a problem of individual dogs and how their foot is constructed than a breed characterist.

Shadow wrote:field trial line of britts and he's not happy- maybe you could invite him to get on this forum
I'd sure like to hear what he has to say

He use to own ( Tabasco, line Britney) if I remember the names correct? ( I don’t know if this names ring a bell to you Britney guys out west) he is the most avid hunter I aver meet, 55 years old retire and hunts 5-6 months a year for 4 to 5 days a week, he parks the airstream and hunts for week or two in the same area then move’s to new area for a week or two from September and finishes in Arizona mearn quail hunting

I suggest to him to have 2-3 dogs, the way he hunts 4-6 hours a day I don’t think one dog can last for more them few weeks strait no mater how well condition the dog is.

Manny

I hunt chukar exclusively and of the 4 dogs that I own only 1 has had issues with his feet and they will look like this in a matter of hours without boots:


I really think that it has to do with the individuals movement more than anything else.

Tabasco line- never heard of that-

I've got country arround here where your dog won't go very fast after 10 min

manny- we could be on to something here- can you ask him to come on here and talk a bit

Shadow wrote:manny- we could be on to something here- can you ask him to come on here and talk a bit

No problem, I will do so

Take care

Why not throw some of the rubber boots on?

Personally it's a big deal to me - it's tough country and I've seen dogs shredded in under a half hour before. If you're gonna do it and do it alot, a good foot and/or good gait is an absolute must. I do agree that for the guy described at least two dogs, preferably 3 would probably be the best to really maximize his dog power. Also, there's no shame in booting up the dog(s) if he has to - I wouldn't put those dogs that need boots high on my list of breeding material but I'd do what I could to keep 'em comfortably in the game.

Chukka foot - took these after I hunted Scoots 4 or 5 days in a row on the last week of the season a couple years ago. It's the kind of foot I like to see personally - dark, tight, conditioned:




I know people will argue, but I don't care for the pink pads/white nails for chukar dogs. I think a well bred liver roan shorthair is the baddest (meaning the best) thing going for an avid, multi day in a row chukar hunter...but that's me. Hopefully I have a litter of 'em in the cooker right now if the guy is lookin' and I know Casper does.

DGFavor wrote:I think a well bred liver roan shorthair is the baddest (meaning the best) thing going for an avid, multi day in a row chukar hunter...but that's me.

Yup that is just you

4.5 weeks old and they are broke to WSF and finishing their FF. 3 girls and 1 boy left

My biggest complaint about my pup is her pads. We hunt chukar a bit during the season and if she ever goes on back to back hunts she needs boots on the second day. That said if she has boots on she goes fine and her feet are never a problem.

I am hoping that once I finish school and start working I will have a place for her feet to get more conditioning. Right now she spends her days on my couch relaxing until it is time to go on a run.

I think DG is on to something. Of the dogs I have owned, those with the darker pads and nails have seemed to have the toughest feet.

Hi everybody.
I am the one I started all these talking to Manny
Let me make my experience in regards to this subject a little more clear and explain what I am trying to find out.
I usually run two dogs and most of the time hunt them together.
When conditioned the best ones never have a problem in Idaho Oregon terrain I hunt in but when I hunt mearns by the mexican border I never had a dog except one that can go daily for many days in a row with out needing boots to keep hunting.
The best dog I ever had was a liver roan shorthair and he was out of a DK female from Germany and a GSP male from Wyoming and I never had him on mearns.
The year after I put him to sleep I got into Britts (Dave Walker dogs Chubasco II line) and these dogs could not run Mearns country with out being booted up every two days no matter how conditioned they were except one who is a liver white dog that can do mearns every day all season with out boots.
Here is my debate about this dog....he is 48 pounds at top shape and his grand daddy (same line) only three pounds lighter and a tough super dog would fit with large boots at front and medium at rear,where this dog can only fit in extra large at front and large rear.
Both dogs have great tight feet but the one with larger feet has had boots on him only a couple of times to prevent him from going out of business and taken off since he ranged too much with them....only to find out he never really needs them on mearns or any where else.
All these dogs have shown great drive and resistance to pain including the liver Britt so I am wondering if the size of feet all other things being equal have something to do with the ability to go with out boots.
Even more odd thing about this dog is he has a little less stamina on a single full days hunt in comparison to the other good dogs but he still gets it done and he is the fastest dog in speed than the rest.....so I can understand faster equals less long term stamina but the feet make me scratch my head.
The old short hair had incredible stamina and lots of other qualities that made me want to find him again.....so now being down to one dog I wanted to find a line of dogs that will work for me and be able to duplicate them......so after lots of digging for info I decided to try Mannys dogs and last night I received a black little puppy off the plane....she has big feet to fill and maybe boots and I look forward to her turning out since I know if she does I can count on lots more of the same from Manny.
I have been talking to this man for four months on the phone for hours at a time and I have to say besides becoming friends over the phone,I have been very impressed with his dedication to breed the best dogs possible so now I am trusting him with the most important part of my life....the dogs I hunt with when I live in the country for it every year.....

Good luck!! Always fun to get a new hunting partner!

fishvik wrote:I think DG is on to something. Of the dogs I have owned, those with the darker pads and nails have seemed to have the toughest feet.

I think that is part of the equation. But, I think build and stride is the other part. I had a GSP once that was dark roan colored, big black feet, and black nails. First year I never had a problem with his feet. Second season, once he filled out (he was a big dog), his feet were always shot in a couple hours. I tried everything, could not fix it. His problem was his gait, he pounded the ground like a plow horse. Sold him to a preserve guy. He loved him.
I hope your big footed dog turns out like Dougs and not like mine.
Good Luck
Gary

glk7243 wrote:

fishvik wrote:I think DG is on to something. Of the dogs I have owned, those with the darker pads and nails have seemed to have the toughest feet.

I think that is part of the equation. But, I think build and stride is the other part. I had a GSP once that was dark roan colored, big black feet, and black nails. First year I never had a problem with his feet. Second season, once he filled out (he was a big dog), his feet were always shot in a couple hours. I tried everything, could not fix it. His problem was his gait, he pounded the ground like a plow horse. Sold him to a preserve guy. He loved him.
I hope your big footed dog turns out like Dougs and not like mine.
Good Luck
Gary

Thank you Gary

I worded it wrong what i wanted to say is the new pup has big shoes to fill ...it looks like it has normal size feet.
She will get the right treatment ,wild birds only and lots of them.
My old short hair that I loved so much had really big feet too(black also like the Britt ) and he was a tall male that never went over 65 pounds and he could get conditioned every year in no time ....lean tall and he looked in shape of season loose in the yard.
I guess when I will see a dog go the distance with no trouble or not needing boots with normal or small size feet my suspicion for the reason on this will evaporate.
Nice photo by the rim rocks it reminds me of an area close to the dam at the top over the owyhee reservoir camp ground...nice and flat makes chukar hunting more fun being able to let the dogs open up and easy shooting on rising birds.
Cheers
Mario

What is the best way to condition their feet?
Will pads regenerate? I just acquired a 4 year old DK and her pads are smooth as can be so she slides on our deck and tile floors, or wood steps. My other GSP has pads that have some roughness to them so traction is not an issue?

We hunt se oregon too. I hunted over a dozen different dogs there last year and saw alot foot problems. Most of them were in no condition for that kind of abrasive rock and steep country and didn't last more than 4-5 hours. Good dogs, just steep rough country and some of the most abrasive rock you'll find. Felt sorry for them and it cut more than one hunt short. Owners just didn't condition the dogs ahead of time for that kind of terrain.

I think pad pressure has something to do with it too. Bigger heavy bodied dogs put alot more pressure on their pads than a smaller setter or brittany.

Brings to mind dogs and trash dumps....the sad Appalachian story.
From pull-off litter to old houses sites, it's most often the trash and not the terrain as a problem here.
Hard to toughen a foot for a broken bottle...or a broadhead.
Found broadheads ready to slice a foot twice....nother notch against deer, for me.

I also have found the darker the pads and toes are the less likely they will tear while running on new rough country.

Slightly off topic. Reading about chuckar hunting. I have a finished female gsp for sale, that runs big sd +, I have had some calling to buy for chuckar hunting, But since I don't know what type of range is ideal for hunting chuckars? The one guy is 60, yet hunts almost every weekend. I have seen some pictures of the country and looks like they need to run big, and be really broke. It looks like a lot of climbing and walking back down those hills/mts. I run her in Open Limited Gun Dog and Open All Age stakes here in TX. She wants to run, but doesn't want to get lost either. Would she be ok with chuckar hunting?
Scott

Scott, an all age dog is ideal for Chukar hunting covering a lot o ground is a plus in the big country. The question of physical fitness does arise, a dog may be on point at 600 to 700 yards on a GPS but it could be straight up or staright down with a bluff rise or ridge thrown in to boot.

On the subject of feet and breed i believe it doesn't make a lick of difference; its by individual dog and their particular form. We breed cat footed dogs in this country on purpose. There is a trick to toughening feet; sprinkle their feed consistently with plain Knox gelatin and it will help to build thicker, stronger pads. In addition, products like Tuf-Foot do work if applied consistently ahead of time.

...and on topic but way back yonder,,,the dog refereed to as Tubasco is probably Chubasco (Britt) a dog owned by the Littles and handled by them and Dave Walker I believe.

There is a trick to toughening feet; sprinkle their feed consistently with plain Knox gelatin and it will help to build thicker, stronger pads.
Do you put it in their food, or on their feet? always looking for ideas to get dog's feet ready for the prairies later this month.
Scott

...and on topic but way back yonder,,,the dog refereed to as Tubasco is probably Chubasco (Britt) a dog owned by the Littles and handled by them and Dave Walker I believe

I think you got it exactly right. he is still showing in a lot pedigrees,especially out in tha country.

Ezzy

Right in their food...and please, I dont profess to know the science but an old hound guy had me try it 30 years ago. It seems to work, I have used it through the years and had some impact. The most notable was a brittany female with brittle nails in addition to soft feet and the addition of this in her diet helped her immensely in the field.

I never saw hin run, it was before my time...but the Little's have had some nice dogs including a Brittany NFC and Chubasco as I understand it was one of their best.

vomsparta wrote:

Shadow wrote:field trial line of britts and he's not happy- maybe you could invite him to get on this forum
I'd sure like to hear what he has to say

He use to own ( Tabasco, line Britney) if I remember the names correct? ( I don’t know if this names ring a bell to you Britney guys out west) he is the most avid hunter I aver meet, 55 years old retire and hunts 5-6 months a year for 4 to 5 days a week, he parks the airstream and hunts for week or two in the same area then move’s to new area for a week or two from September and finishes in Arizona mearn quail hunting

I suggest to him to have 2-3 dogs, the way he hunts 4-6 hours a day I don’t think one dog can last for more them few weeks strait no mater how well condition the dog is.

Manny

I would believe that to be Chubasco lines

depending on where you get that breeding you really need to look at the breeder as people state dogs in peds with no regards to the dogs that are being bred

as for paw problems People need to look at conformation of the dog as if they are to straight in the front this will cause a dog to have a harder pounding on the paws and no matter what you add to the paws it just isn't going to fix the way a dog runs and pounds on the paws.