That's it, I am shooting bird from now on!

[hoof]

Pheasants in PA are a little like unicorns or bigfoot anywhere else. Yesterday I flushed two roosters and didn't shoot because my 6 month old DD wasn't on point when they went up. I think that if the dog bumps the bird I will let it fly, but if I flush one myself or it goes up wild it is getting the big surprise.

Anyone with personal experience with this, good or bad. I don't want to ruin my pointer, but I would like the dog to know why we are out there.

Thanks,
CHAZ

[bowhunter1221975]

ok first we all want to bag birds when we are afield. i understand birds are few and far between some places. the problem that i see with shoting bumped or not pointed flushed birds is that it will surprise your pup and could i state could scare him/her you dont want to even take the chance of makeing a problem were one isnt. this is just JMO. i would keep workin with your pup remember why you have a pointer lol have fun good luck

[Ruffshooter]

Personally: I think shooting a bird that the dog did not bump or bust is okay. I do it with Ruffs just so the dog gets an idea of what we are doing.. Maybe more for my piece of mine more than help to the dog. But I feel it does not hurt. So long as your dog is gun broke..

Get that dog a bird. Also If he stops on a flush shoot that bird. At least for two or three he did not mess up on.
IMHO
RIck

[tommyboy72]

I agree with Ruff as long as your dog is accustomed to the sound of a shotgun. I train mostly on wild birds and would hardly ever get off a shot for the first season on a pup if I did not shoot birds they bump. My 3 year old pointer is fantastic on wild quail and wild pheasant but it took her a season to set and lock her birds. She started out doing everything else well i.e. retrieving, whistle commands, hand signals, range, come command everything else was perfect except locking up her birds. It just takes them awhile to get used to their scent cone and to know how close they can get to birds without bumping them. FYI I have another young pointer male now that I am working who is only 10 months old who is also on the same track as my 3 yr old was. He retrieves wild dove, pigeons, and released chukar fantastic, is ecollar trained, whistle trained, responding well to hand signals, ranges huge, is gunproofed, checks back well but is just still bumping birds . He finds birds fine but just bumps them. It will just take them awhile to get it down. Some dogs take longer than others. I think shooting bumped birds helps them to learn what you are looking for and why you are out there and they start sticking birds faster than if you don't shoot them. Pointing is instinctual and any well bred pointing dog will start locking birds in time. I know some will disagree with me but to each his own. Also I think the time of year, humidity, and ground cover have a lot to do with dogs bumping birds as well.

[bowhunter1221975]

i agree if the pup bumps the bird but if the pup has not and is just hunting or running around the shot might and i said might scare the pup once again this is JMO. i am not a trainer but it just makes sence a six month old pup and the hunter bumpin the birds not the dog could as i said could cause a problem once again this is JMO

[hoof]

Gun shy is not an issue with this pup. I shot a few birds over him to see if he would retrieve (which he did), and now he actually runs toward the sound of gunfire expecting to find a dead bird.
CHAZ

[kninebirddog]

ok first we all want to bag birds when we are afield. i understand birds are few and far between some places. the problem that i see with shoting bumped or not pointed flushed birds is that it will surprise your pup and could i state could scare him/her you dont want to even take the chance of makeing a problem were one isnt. this is just JMO. i would keep workin with your pup remember why you have a pointer lol have fun good luck

I am on the side of I want the dog work...if I just want meat I will go to the store

[birddogger]

Personally: I think shooting a bird that the dog did not bump or bust is okay. I do it with Ruffs just so the dog gets an idea of what we are doing.. Maybe more for my piece of mine more than help to the dog. But I feel it does not hurt. So long as your dog is gun broke..

Get that dog a bird. Also If he stops on a flush shoot that bird. At least for two or three he did not mess up on.
IMHO
RIck

Ditto. JMO.

Charlie

[ArcticRetrievers]

I am on the side of I want the dog work...if I just want meat I will go to the store

Agreed, I have a Nine month Old DD who is just beginning, I have gotten about 8 birds with him total (that he was steady t wing and shot) If I want to go out for meat, I take my 2,3,and 4 year olds out. Then We usually Get our limit >:)

[ArcticRetrievers]

^^^^^^Forgot to mention he has only been out a Few times^^^^^^ I live in alaska, and it is getting much colder, we will keep hunting (even in the negatives) but he gets a little chilly

[ACooper]

IMO much of it depends on the bird being hunted and if the dog intentionally takes out a bird. Birds that run and flush wild in front of a dog are fair game to me. If a dog goes in on a bird and takes one out on purpose I wont shoot.

Feel free to disagree.

[Ruffshooter]

Taking birds that are not perfectly worked is not about meat. It is about putting parts of the puzzle together for the dog.

In other words, the pup has the natural inclination to run through the woods looking for something. Something draws that dog to a certain type of scent more than others, (usually) game birds. But the pup does not know why or even if that is why he is out there. Shootiing the birds that are not out right busted, or wild flushed, gives that dog part of the puzzle because you swell up with pride, you are happy, you get a kick out of your dog trying to or retrieving the dead bird, the pup is happy because that dead bird triggered somehting else in him that just feels right. So all this positive stuff helps the dog do more things that made you both happy, so the dog actually starts working that scent more and more. with each contact, whalla the start of a bird dog. (I am not saying shoot birds that are out right busted or dangerous shots.) And I am not saying do this for the whole of the season, just till he starts putting things together, which probably will be in a few birds. In fact when the dog starts pointing more, you know hes got it. He points you shoot. After a few of these the body language will start to change, the eyes start to change. Also when a dog bumps a bird, I might shoot a couple of those, again just so he knows that is what we want. But only a couple, if he has not had any shot birds that he scented while alive. The pup bumping birds is him learning how much pressure he can put on the bird. (Bird Dog School). Again all in all you will not be shooting that many birds when all of a sudden he starts getting it. Just a few.



Anyway, My Opinion such as it is.

[tommyboy72]

Or you can go to a preserve where you have to kick the birds out of the grass and they never fly but you get pretty points and then you wonder why the dog never gets a point while you are walking the fields and woods. I personally like wild birds and hunting even with the occasional bumped bird. I have never been to a preserve but just recently I have been using pen raised chukar and pigeons and they in no way, shape, or form come anywhere to close to recreating the behavior of wild birds. Not even close.

[Ron R]

Or you can go to a preserve where you have to kick the birds out of the grass and they never fly but you get pretty points

I have never been to a preserve

That is a pretty unfair description of a hunting preserve. For me, preserves are more about working/training my dogs and fun for my kids and there are preserves that have good flying birds. Ofcoarse there is a huge difference between pen birds and wild birds. Recently while training on pen birds my dog had a bird walk between both his front and back legs and then came back and stood on his front paw. Although this was not a preserve it was a training drill. We will be wild bird hunting tomorrow though .

[tommyboy72]

Sorry Ron no offense intended but you know what I was getting at.

[tdhusker]

Personally: I think shooting a bird that the dog did not bump or bust is okay. I do it with Ruffs just so the dog gets an idea of what we are doing.. Maybe more for my piece of mine more than help to the dog. But I feel it does not hurt. So long as your dog is gun broke..

Get that dog a bird. Also If he stops on a flush shoot that bird. At least for two or three he did not mess up on.
IMHO
RIck

Agree 100% I am not a trialer so keep that in mind, but I have yet to see a pointing dog that was ruined by shooting a bird it didn't point. In fact, you are depriving the dog of the bird, not building his desire for the bird.

[redsetter18]

i agree with ruff for the first to season i let my setter loose just let him find bird and flush them building up his contact with birds every once in awhile i would get a point and would praise him this is all without and whoa training or anything this year we got through his training went out yesterday got my limit and had 15 rock solid points

[tmanikas]

I have a 1 1/2 year old Vizsla. I hunted her a little bit last Feb. she was not gun shy but when we went out about 3 weeks ago we flushed a rooster and shot it the dog just quit hunting. She did not run away but she was glued to my hip. Since then I have taken her out to a gun club and worked with her. Also I have been shooting 22 cal blanks 2 to 3 rounds daily. I have also been working her in a field everyday. maybe 20 days in a row. She is doing great scenting and going through all types of brush. I believe she has good hunting instincts but has not found a pheasant yet. Tomorrow we will be going pheasant hunting at a preserve any tips from anyone ? I have told my friend that we wont shoot the first couple of pheasants the dog finds to get her a little bird crazy. Any other thoughts out there ?

Thank you

[Birddogz]

I actually think preserve hunting should only be for very young dogs to learn on. After 1 year old, avoid them. Just hunt on wild birds as much as possible.