First Bird Dog Gun Suggestions?

[media310]

Wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction for my first bird dog gun..

[DonF]

Your first bird gun dog? What do you want to hunt? Looks like a shorthair in your avatar. They are a fine gun dog.

[Ruffshooter]

I think he means gun for bird hunting.

Have you shot, shot guns before?
Go try a couple friends guns.
See what feels good.
How much do you want to spend?

I like 20 gauge for most everything, except ducks and geese, but if you pheasant hunt you may want a 12 gauge. You can use a 20 gauge for pheasants but many feel it is to light.
I like overunder guns, they just feel good to me and are quick to raise and pick up the site picture. But grew up with pump guns and I shot okay then. My first was a 4:10 single shot. Shot a lot of birds with that.

[moneysshot]

I shoot an old 12 gauge side-by-side Fox for upland and a Remington 870 for waterfowl. I love both guns, but I agree with Ruffshooter. I think it comes down the preference of the person and what feels right. If you practice and feel comfortable with whatever you choose, its not going to matter if it is a $200 hand me down or a $2,000 Citori, both will drop birds.

[birddogger]

And if it is a fixed choke, make sure it is not choked too tight. Most new ones have choke tubes now days. Other than that, look at and handle several and choose what feels right. If you like a gun and it feels right, you will shoot well.

Charlie

[Gertie]

I just went through this decision. I tried out a lot of different guns and wound up with a Benelli Montefeltro 20 guage. I liked it because it's light (I hike in chukar country) and it felt nice when I shouldered it. I'm pretty much of the opinion that if it feels good and is well suited for what you do most often you can make it work for any other game you might go after.

[DonF]

Lotta truth to that. By changing component's, mainly shot size in a 20ga it can become a duck gun. And by the same methods in reverse a 12ga get's to be a quail gun. I've never shot a 20ga much but I understand you can get a 3" 1 1/4oz load of shot in them now. My old duck hunting load in 12 ga was 2 3/4 hull with 1 1/4oz of shot. Seems to me when I was a kid, the 1 1/4os 12ga load was a duck load, it still works! Once you go below the 20ga, things start to change. But a guy getting his first gun is not likely to buy a 28ga. So take you pick, 12 or 20. Then just decided which gun you like, only you will know the answer to that.

BTW, don't get a 16ga unless your gonna reload. Selection of loads is pretty bad. That said, my bird guns are 16ga and 28ga, both sxs's.

[CHJIII]

Don't make him shy away from 16 ga. Loads are available. Find them....buy them. Best all around gun for all hunting.

[DonF]

Don't make him shy away from 16 ga. Loads are available. Find them....buy them. Best all around gun for all hunting.

I couldn't agree with you more! But when he learn's to shoot over setter's he will better appreciate a 16ga in a SxS!

[CowboyBirdDogs]

Depends on how much money you have to spend and what you're comfortable with shooting. I shoot a 20ga semi-auto Remington 1100 but I REALLY want a 20ga Benelli Montefeltro.

[ezzy333]

Depends on how much money you have to spend and what you're comfortable with shooting. I shoot a 20ga semi-auto Remington 1100 but I REALLY want a 20ga Benelli Montefeltro.

I'm old may be the difference but I love the 20 because it is LIGHT. That is the deciding factor for me and I have shot a 20 90% of the time for the past 60 years. And I mkills anything a 12 will which makes the decision easy for me.

Ezzy

[madduckdog]

12ga normal feller
20ga got enuf money to buy 2
28ga got too much time and thank about it too much
410 show off

I own all but a 410

[gsp3333]

20 ga. Benelli Montefeltro for me. At 5lbs 6oz I can carry it all day and a bunch of different loads available to cover just about everything.
Check out Gunbroker.com, can pick up a good used one for about $800.

[JIM K]

for pheasantsdu i like BERETTA URICKA FIELD 12 GA
for grouse etc i like FRANCHI AL48 20GA

both guns balance good and are light.franchi semi is my grouse gun of choice and i had a lot of guns over 46 yrs of grouse hunting

[windswept]

For years I have wanted to switch from 12 guage to a Montefeltro 20 guage but I was not sure it would be enough for my favorite hunting, pheasants.
I made the switch this year and the Montifeltro 20 guage is all I shot while upland hunting. Take it from a guy who bought into the whole "need a 12 guage for pheasants" mind set. The 20 guage was every bit as effective at bringing down the big birds as the 12 guage was. I shot nearly 60 wild SD roosters this fall and I'll probably never pick up the 12 guage again if I'm hunting upland.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Media310,
Having Grouse hunted for over 50 years now, my recommendations for a Grouse gun are these, find and old
16 Gauge L.C. Smith, Fox, Parker or Ithaca gun that you really like. Have the gun choked to C & IC, make sure the gun fits you properly.
Pattern your double gun and find out which sells work best for you by holding the a good repetative pattern.
Spend some time practicing with your double gun, shooting on a clays course, that is set for Grouse gunning.
Then spend some time with your dog and gun on a regulated shooting grounds, gunning some flying birds.
Finally take your dog to the Grouse woods with your new double gun, and have fun. For the beginner, I recommend the 16 Gauge double gun, with DT and 28" BBls, because it's light enough to carry like a 20 Gauge and hits like a 12, and has a thumb safe for smooth gunning in the Grouse woods, especially in very cold weather. The DT (Double triggers) are important for instant choke selection in the thick forest.
RGD/Dave

[Elkhunter]

Find an old 870 Remington Wingmaster 12 gauge.

[nikegundog]

Media310,
Having Grouse hunted for over 50 years now, my recommendations for a Grouse gun are these, find and old
16 Gauge L.C. Smith, Fox or Parker gun that you really like. Have the gun choked to C & IC, make sure the gun fits you properly.
Pattern your double gun and find out which sells work best for you by holding the a good repetative pattern.
Spend some time practicing with your double gun, shooting on a clays course, that is set for Grouse gunning.
Then spend some time with your dog and gun on a regulated shooting grounds, gunning some flying birds.
Finally take your dog to the Grouse woods with your new double gun, and have fun. For the beginner, I recommend the 16 Gauge double gun, with DT and 28" BBls, because it's light enough to carry like a 20 Gauge and hits like a 12, and has a thumb safe for smooth gunning in the Grouse woods, especially in very cold weather. The DT (Double triggers) are important for instant choke selection in the thick forest.
RGD/Dave

Ryman, first let me say that I always enjoy reading you talk about the history of the Smith shotguns and looking at your photos of them. I do disagree with you recommending a first time gun purchaser to go shopping for an 70-100 year old firearm, there are may to many pitfalls in doing this, they could wind up with one that is unsafe to shoot, not capable of taking modern loads, cracked stocks, loose lock-ups, overpriced etc..........

[BigTub]

12ga normal feller
20ga got enuf money to buy 2
28ga got too much time and thank about it too much
410 show off

I own all but a 410

I second this insightful post!

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Gentlemen,
I can fully understand your opinion, however dealing with a professional Gun Smith or Master gun Maker who has a honest gun business is part of purchasing fine weapons, finding such a business is all part of acquiring decent weapons,
and sometimes you have to wait a little to acquire the weapon you really want. You must do your home work when purchasing weapons and know what you want to purchase. Having a knowledgeable friend to guide you doesn't hurt either.
RGD/Dave

Below is something to consider, this 16 Guage Ithaca is at Cabelas in Rogers Minn, 763-493-8625 the cost is $899.00,
a good Box Lock SxS double gun to start Grouse hunting with, Choked M/M, ask about and the LOP, used with Win 1oz loads or Spred-R loads these are fine beginner Grouse weapons, with 28" BBls, 2 3/4 Chambers, Double Triggers and Thumb safe.
I would eventually have the 1st trigger BBl, opened to C, costs will be about $40.00 at a good Gun Smith.
http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabe ... HSnF6eR7jj

[Rock_Binder]

Gentlemen,
I can fully understand your opinion, however dealing with a professional Gun Smith or Master gun Maker who has a honest gun business is part of purchasing fine weapons, finding such a business is all part of acquiring decent weapons,
and sometimes you have to wait a little to acquire the weapon you really want. You must do your home work when purchasing weapons and know what you want to purchase. Having a knowledgeable friend to guide you doesn't hurt either.
RGD/Dave

Below is something to consider, this 16 Guage Ithaca is at Cabelas in Rogers Minn, 763-493-8625 the cost is $899.00,
a good Box Lock SxS double gun to start Grouse hunting with, Choked M/M, ask about and the LOP, used with Win 1oz loads or Spred-R loads these are fine beginner Grouse weapons, with 28" BBls, 2 3/4 Chambers, Double Triggers and Thumb safe.
I would eventually have the 1st trigger BBl, opened to C, costs will be about $40.00 at a good Gun Smith.
http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabe ... HSnF6eR7jj

Gotta be real careful having a 'smith open up chokes on older shotguns. Most these days are just parts changers with no true working knowledge of shotguns or the types of lockup.
I see it all too often in the shop, guy brings in a gun that was butchered by another shop.

Personal opinion aside since I love older shotguns is go for a new pump action. Simple to operate and simple to maintain.
The best two by far are the Mossberg 500 and the Remington 870.

[Elkhunter]

I would never buy a nice gun for the hunting I do, I fall down at least 1-2 times each hunt. Gun has many a battle scar!

[AG74]

I would never buy a nice gun for the hunting I do, I fall down at least 1-2 times each hunt. Gun has many a battle scar!

Yep, I think they say something like: before you go on your first chukar hunt, take your favorite shotgun and just throw it down on the rocks. Then you won't be upset when you fall over and get it all banged up...

I shoot a Benelli M2 synthetic for just that reason.

[Elkhunter]

True words! Once I set my gun down to shed a layer of clothing and learned a valuable lesson. Cheat grass is like a slide for a shotgun, I was chasing it down the mtn all the while the shale was working overtime on it! My Father cringes when he sees my gun.....

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Rock_Binder,
We have some real good gun smiths and Master Gun Makers here in Pa, & Ca. I do understand there are a lot of part changers around today, a man must do his home work and find a good one if he plans on owning good weapons. Here are two very good master Gun Makers, Economy Gun Smithing Economy, Pa (Rich Painter) 724-266-0232 & Freddie Brunner Escondido, Ca 760-738-8413.
These are the men who work on my L.C. Smith Double guns.
RGD/Dave

The stock on this 1920 Elsie was shattered in a fall at the breech, it was repaired by Freddie Brunner, saving the original
Elsie stock.

[DonF]

Boy that is a beautiful gun! I think fine double's are something it takes time to appreciate. I've owned a lot of pump's, still have one today, an Ithica Featherweight in 16ga. Never get rid of that gun. I've had several 870's and Mosberg 500's. Both good gun's. I even had an auto loader once, Browning Double Auto, best grouse gun I ever had. But getting a fine gun for a new shooter is about like buying your kid a brand new car for his first. He can't appreciate it as he's got nothing to compare it with!

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Don,
I was lucky to have been raised in a family that believed in fine Grouse guns, the 1st Grouse gun I was allowed to use was my Grandfathers 28 Gauge Parker SXS double gun, I was taught everything from gun safety to proper Grouse hunting behind a Ryman Setter, with that weapon, starting at age 10. If you start a young boy out with fine Grouse gun and teach him the responsibilty of both life and weapons he will pass his knowledge on to the next generation, of your family. My Grandfathers words to me, as I shot my 1st Woodcock and Grouse. In our family a fine Grouse gun is a part of our Upland traditional family life. I thank God for the Father and Grandfather that raised me, I thanked God even more when I was in a war zone and all their teaching kept me alive. Every young boy should be schooled in the use of a fine double gun, as early as possible.
RGD/Dave

[JIM K]

very nice guns,dave.as usual your comments make a lot of sense.my dad raised us on single barrel shotguns.mossberg pump is what we had.
funny, i cant shoot any shotgun but single barrel.
i now own a BERETTA URICKA FIELD 12 GA SEMI-AUTO for pheasants.
FRANCHI AL48 ,20GA SEMI FOR GROUSE.

i am deadly with both but terrible with sxs,o/u.

[DonF]

You were fortunate Dave and I suspect you know it. My step dad didn't hunt much and knew even less aqbout guns. My grandfather wqasn't a bird hunter but probably the best shot with a handgun I've ever known. He was pretty fair with a rifle also. I had one cousin that sshot birds, a lot of birds, but his choice was a mod 12. I have never cared for them. My shotgun life started with an ols Iver Johnson 16ga single shot, plastic stock with a plug in it to add weight! My nex shotgun was a Mossberg 16ga bolt action with a poly choke. Tremendious step up but really slow jacking out a fited shell and in a new one. First decent shotgun I ever had was a Mossberg 500. I have always like those guns. As a matter of fact, back in my killing days, I traded off the best grouse gun I ever owned because it didn't work well on ducksw! A Browning Double Auto for a Mossberg 500, what a deal! Along the way I did learn to appreciate double's, don't really care much for O/U's. I look at those shotgun's you post and they make my mouth water! Somewhere along the line I discovered bird hunting was a lot more than killing birds. And then I found SxS shotguns. Now they are about all I shoot. Not really nice one's but good one's. Got foue AyA Matador's.