tips for getting started on grouse...

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4ShotB
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tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by 4ShotB » Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:58 pm

I took the pup to the national forest yesterday where I have hiked/backpacked over the years and kicked up a few (and I do mean a few) grouse over the years.We picked out an old powerline that looked like it had good bird (quail/pheasant/etc.) cover with mixed woods on either side.It was a beautiful day and we had a good time but Blaze never acted birdy.I went to the ranger's office and asked a few questions and they were stumped as well.I have seen no one hunting with a dog in all my years in those woods so that tells me there's few birds and/or no hunters I am a few hours west of the Appalachian mountains and maybe on the fringe of grouse territory...I know when I hike and camp over there in East Tn. I have heard and seen a lot more grouse over the years.

anyways, I have never hunted grouse nor known anyone personally who has.I just want the chance to spend some time in the woods with my dog with the offhand chance of pulling the trigger on occasion.So this is a rather broad question but how do I approach this as a newbie..specifically what types of terrain and cover should I start with? I have never really noted where the few birds I have kicked up where at because at the time I never gave any thoughts about hunting them.Another question...what do you expect in terms of bird contacts per hour or day to consider a place "huntable"? I really appreciate any feedback. also, what size shot...I took 7 - 1/2 with us yesterday.Thanks.

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:59 pm

Learn about what constitutes early successional cover and what delivers it...in the Apps, as other areas differ in natural regen. and harvest methods. *I'll add...Va. does/did some small prescribed burns....maybe some token projects in your area...check with your DNR.
Learn what ruffed grouse prefer.
Mix well.
Walk.

7 1/2s are more than adequate tho I like 7s or 6s.

You could well receive a range of answers as to what is a huntable ruffed grouse/hour number.
For me, it is above .75/hr.
Less, if truely representative of birds in good cover with good dogs, is asking for long-term trouble...especially, late season in the Apps.
Any legal season tho, will find folks flushing and shooting grouse well under that per hour figure....rationalizing away as they go.

I would suggest considering a trip Nort.
Last edited by Mountaineer on Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

volraider
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by volraider » Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:26 pm

Where in tn are you?

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mik
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by mik » Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:37 pm

I spend a fare amount of time on the hunt for thunderchickens......Here's what's worked for me: research, (library, internet, local DNR, Plat maps), miles of walkin in woods, askin questions on forums such as this.....
Check out "Grouse Hunter's Guide" by Dennis Walrod
Usually, I like 4-7 year old clear cut areas or the edges of those areas, areas with conifers mixed into poplar tree stands, conifer/cedar swamps with edges being poplar trees...Poplar's that are 20-40ft tall with 3+ inch trunks or bigger....tag alder swamps...immature woods with areas of clover on the floor or above mentioned cut areas with berries around....
I use a 20guage with improved cylinder and usually 7-1/2's.....

Hookadooka BirdDogs
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Hookadooka BirdDogs » Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:55 am

Welcome to the wonderful, often frustrating world of Grouse Hunting. It all begins with the dog(s). Get them into as many birds as you can (pigeons, quail, chuckar, etc.) and build the drive. TN tried establishing grouse in the west without success, so I would start e of I-75 around the Cumberland WMA and head east. Contact logging companies in those areas and ask where they have logged in the last five-ten years. Use Google earth to find older un-reclaimed strip mines, clear cuts, gas wells, etc. If the area you decide to hunt is easy walking, leave and find an area that is full of green briar, mountain laurel, thorns, and early succession forest. In the hills use logging road edges (get off the road, into the "rough stuff", less good shots but more birds), and work the skidder benches on the hillsides. Some days you find them on the ridge tops, tomorrow they may be in the ditches. Research areas ahead of time. Way cheaper than gas.
I use 7.5 shells, either in 20 ga. or 12. You really don't need more than 1 oz. in 20 or 1 1/8 in 12 ga. Don't worry about birds per hour. Enjoy the experience. To get your dog really cranked up, head North early next season. Find a hunting buddy.
Pointed birds: If it's flyin', it's dyin'.

In 1969, the only woodstock I saw was on my M-14.

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Hookadooka BirdDogs » Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:07 pm

I would also have anyone interested in Ruffed Grouse Hunting to go on the internet and download a copy of the PA Ruffed Grouse Management Plan 2011-2020. It has 64 pages of interesting info on Grouse Management that is usable for any state's management plan. Check it out. Very helpful message.

I am from Ohio and I can't find one sentence about Ohio's Grouse Mgt. plan much less 64 pages. All they have is BS that is of no value. Ohio's plan for the last 40 years calls for reclaiming mining land with grasses that no tree could ever grow in.
Pointed birds: If it's flyin', it's dyin'.

In 1969, the only woodstock I saw was on my M-14.

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:19 pm

Hookadooka BirdDogs wrote:...I am from Ohio and I can't find one sentence about Ohio's Grouse Mgt. plan much less 64 pages. All they have is BS that is of no value. Ohio's plan for the last 40 years calls for reclaiming mining land with grasses that no tree could ever grow in.

Not really, no.
Swanson then and Reynolds now are knowledgeable about the ruffed grouse.
Likely why they wisely and thankfully shortened the season, which is showing some benefit this year...along with the help of a few good Springs.
Ohio does have some perscribed burn plans and the new timber head understands the importance of cutting timber, as but two examples.
Could more be done?...sure, especially the feds on the NF land.
Ohio is simply much, much different than Pennsylvania....both in available manageable forest, bigger country, more game lands, and on and on..... and, recently, the influx of the Marcellus money into the PGC coffers.
No state plan, Pa's or any other, is totally transferrable....conditions are always different.
Pa's plan was also developed over a good length of time on a moderately large study area closed to hunting much of the time....Ohio has no comparable area.

Ohio could learn from the Penn. Alt Deer Plan tho....a wonderful success story for upland birds.

Ohio once had ruffed grouse numbers to rival the upper great lakes....simply not in the cards today...or tomorrow.
Just the way it is.

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Ryman Gun Dog
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:59 am

4ShotB,
Tenn is a tough state for Grouse for sure, I suggest you contact your SGL and State forester, have them give you
their Forest Cutting information for the past 6 years on maps if they can, then go to those cuts with your dogs and investigate them fully, to find your Grouse coverts. If the forester is/ are nice guys, which most are they will also tell you where they have seen Grouse as they work each day. The best thing you can have is a mentor, who has hunted Grouse for many years
he can show you more in a day than you will learn on your own in years. Although I spend no time in Tenn hunting Grouse you are more than welcome to pay me a visit next season, here in the Pa mountains, and I will take you and your dog out and get you started. 8"s thru 6's are good Grouse hunting shells, your 7 1/2's were fine. I recommend a good double gun, choked
C & IC when Grouse hunting, the 16 Guage gun for a beginner is just great. After you have some experience, the 20 and 28 Gauge gun can be added to your Grouse hunting weapons.
Good luck with your new interest
RGD/Dave
Last edited by Ryman Gun Dog on Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Hookadooka BirdDogs » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:30 am

All good points from all above. I'd like to add a couple more.
If you can hunt the area without shooting glasses, you're hunting the wrong cover.
If you can hunt the area with the bill of your blaze orange ball cap facing forward, you're in the wrong cover. Find cover where you HAVE TO wear it backwards.
If you find a veteran Grouse Hunter to go with you, the rules of etiquette in our woods are the vet get's the first shot at the first grouse flushed. Protocol, you know. :lol: :lol:
Pointed birds: If it's flyin', it's dyin'.

In 1969, the only woodstock I saw was on my M-14.

4ShotB
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by 4ShotB » Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:42 pm

Hookadooka BirdDogs wrote:If you find a veteran Grouse Hunter to go with you, the rules of etiquette in our woods are the vet get's the first shot at the first grouse flushed. Protocol, you know. :lol: :lol:
Those are a lot easier rules than the old timer who got me started turkey hunting years ago (and I'm talking about the years when if you heard three birds gobble in the entire season and saw a set of tracks you considered it a pretty good year)...he required that I set up camp,make the coffee, built the fires and split the wood plus cleaned up after supper (he was sure I couldn't cook as good as he could). :) I appreciate all the feedback and comments. bigDave, i may take you up on that offer next season. Thanks again to all.

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pinebrookkennel
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by pinebrookkennel » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:43 am

4shotb
Find the fastest sholdering gun you have and go to the range. You have about 3 seconds to shot in heavy cove. It dosnt take
Much to kill them but you have to be FAST even when you have a good solid point.
Make no distinction between practice and combat !
Miyamoto Musashi.
Knowledge, once gained can never be stolen or repossessed.
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4ShotB
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by 4ShotB » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:21 pm

pinebrookkennel wrote:4shotb
Find the fastest sholdering gun you have and go to the range. You have about 3 seconds to shot in heavy cove. It dosnt take
Much to kill them but you have to be FAST even when you have a good solid point.

Over the years, I have missed my share (or more) of quail, dove, pheasants, ducks and a turkey (twice believe it or not).Not to be bragging or anything but I can honestly say I have never missed on grouse. :wink: Can't wait until I start missing on those too!

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Benny » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:29 pm

In Oregon I hunt ridges with alder thickets and snowbrush along the old BLM roads. The grouse prefer the rock source for their gullets nearby and just love those thickets of snowbrush along the roads. It's the only bird (other than turkey) I don't often take my dog with me. Speaking for my local area, they're very flighty at a great distance, and seeing a dog run up on them even 100 yards away will scatter them pretty fast.
I'm sure TN grouse behave different than the grouse I'm accustomed to, so feel free to ignore that worthless tidbit of advice. Best eating bird in the west though...no doubt. If you have Blue's (i'm not sure if you have blue's there), go even higher. It's worth it.
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Ryman Gun Dog
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:52 am

4ShotB,
The reason you have never missed a Grouse is because you have not Grouse hunted very often. PBK gave you good advise, however his 3 sec time was a might off, in reality it has been proven that it only takes 3 tenths of a sec after a spookey Grouse leaves the Ground, for the Grouse to put some kind of habitat between the gunner and himself, at 3 seconds most times the bird is out of gun range, unless the bird flies into an open field or straight down a logging road, which seldom happens.
RGD/Dave

After 50 years I do believe I do fairly well at this sport, I pray for shots like the one in this picture.
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pinebrookkennel
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by pinebrookkennel » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:28 am

:x Rgd
You are a lot closer to the speed of a grouse at takeoff. I was trying not to scare them off.
Also another thing I can think of is figure out what grouse cover looks like. What I mean is tree size ground cover
Ect. Ect. Then you can find more spots in the off season while hiking or driving around
Here is a photo of grouse cover!!!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Make no distinction between practice and combat !
Miyamoto Musashi.
Knowledge, once gained can never be stolen or repossessed.
Jered

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Ryman Gun Dog
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:24 am

PBK,
I fully understand, better not to scare the new Grouse hunters to badly, we do need them to understand however
that as your picture shows, Grouse hunting is done in dense habitat at a very quick rate of speed. The great thing about it
is that with a good Grouse dog, the dog hunts the cover while the master walks decent tram roads and Deer trails, when the dog
sets the Grouse for gunning, its the masters responsibility to slip thu the woods into gunning position and down the bird as it flushes. Done properly Grouse hunting is a Gentlemens sport, done with a Gentlemens companion gun dog.
RGD/Dave

One of Bill Reids fantastic Ryman Setters coming out of the Grouse woods, retrieving a Grouse to hand.
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Ruffshooter » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:44 am

This is all north woods paper company lands. But you can go to old farms, orchards etc. that have grown up or apple orchards that are still active but a frost has hit the remaining apples or around the edges of the orchards.
Young forest with 5 to 10 year growth, rasberry patches early season, birches alders poplars. You can find them in older growth forest. Those birds are fewer as there is less cover and less food sources.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Ruffshooter » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:46 am

Just to add, there are many edges, they can be road or trail edges, they can be a tranistion edge from the berry patches to the young tree growth. It can be young hardwood tree growth to the fir edges. There can be a single stand of trees that may be only 20ft long and 10 ft wide in the middle of a cutting and a bird may just be there.
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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pinebrookkennel
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by pinebrookkennel » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:14 am

All the photos shown are quality habitat.
In my humble opinion that's what to look for!!

Sorry about the photo I couldn't resize it on my phone.
Make no distinction between practice and combat !
Miyamoto Musashi.
Knowledge, once gained can never be stolen or repossessed.
Jered

4ShotB
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by 4ShotB » Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:07 pm

Ryman Gun Dog wrote:4ShotB,
The reason you have never missed a Grouse is because you have not Grouse hunted very often. Image

Ryman - there's a real good reason I ain't never missed - it's because I never shot at one! I have seen/heard them on occasion but never set out to hunt them. If I get the opportunity to shoot grouse I imagine my record will change. Again, thanks for everyone's replies. I enjoy the photos.

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Vonrommel
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Vonrommel » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:31 pm

4shotB,
Where do you live? What city/town?

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MN Bonasa
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by MN Bonasa » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:55 pm

I stayed at a motel this fall with a couple of guys and their english pointer from Tennessee and they were at a place that is really good for starting on grouse. Northern Minnesota a stones throw to the Canadian border! Grouse hunting at its finest and you don't even need to look that hard for cover, its every where! Come here in early October and you will get your fair chances at bangin down a few.. :) A long road trip it would be though. I remember those guys telling me they hope to find someone who would drive the dogs up so they could fly in. :)

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Ryman Gun Dog
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:07 am

MN Grouse Guy,
I do pitty the men who have to ship dogs and fly into hunt Grouse, I live in the Pa forest and have Grouse, Deer, Bear and Turkey on my property, even have an old Elk who visits once in a while.
RGD/Dave

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Hookadooka BirdDogs » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:54 pm

B4,
One of the best sources of info on Grouse is by Stackpole (1989) and found at Amazon.com and others from 3.50 to 35.00 used.

It is "The Wildlife Series, Ruffed Grouse". Lots of colored pics and over 25 contributors. A great read for a Grouser.

TD
Pointed birds: If it's flyin', it's dyin'.

In 1969, the only woodstock I saw was on my M-14.

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by JIM K » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:35 pm

tips for grouse hunting.you have gotten a lot on here already.
i had good days hunting grouse here in pa.boy, in 60s you could walk to mountains from home and flush 10 grouse easy.
we had HABITAT and very little pressure.
most did not have dog ,they ROADHUNTED shooting out car window.

today its not very good grouse hunting even with dog.the habitat and wet springs and hunting pressure,TON OF DOGS NOW ,grouse just cant get a good hold like 60s.
i shoot over heads of grouse most of time so i have grouse to HUNT.
but in comes other hunters and clean out a lot of grouse i let go,IF THEY CAN SHOOT.
pressure on grouse is causing grouse to run a lot now.i have flushing lab and believe me, he gets grouse up fast and close.
pointers, a lot of hunters get to dog and grouse is gone.

so, HUNTING PRESSURE is changing things too.

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by JIM K » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:21 pm

Hookadooka BirdDogs wrote:I would also have anyone interested in Ruffed Grouse Hunting to go on the internet and download a copy of the PA Ruffed Grouse Management Plan 2011-2020. It has 64 pages of interesting info on Grouse Management that is usable for any state's management plan. Check it out. Very helpful message.

I am from Ohio and I can't find one sentence about Ohio's Grouse Mgt. plan much less 64 pages. All they have is BS that is of no value. Ohio's plan for the last 40 years calls for reclaiming mining land with grasses that no tree could ever grow in.
their info is good BUT ,our grouse numbers are terrible here in pa.too many hunters now with dogs and too much killing.wet spring in 2011 caused loss of peeps.
road hunting for grouse at all time high.people out of work road hunting everyday.
dcnr is not cutting any trees now,that is causing less habitat.


DONT BELIEVE A WORD THE STATE OR NEWSPAPERS TELL YOU ON GROUSE HUNTING IN PA.
they are all lying.

drop me PM if you want truth ............
Last edited by JIM K on Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by crappieguy » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:44 am

Up here, we hunt the old mining trails and logging roads, winter snowmobile trails as well as new growth clearcuts and burns. I like to find birch areas;s I find the crops full of birch tips. Ground cover in the form of ferns, juniper, wild rose scrub, high bush cranberries and kinikinik (bear berry). Mixed conifers (jack pine and poplar). Also like to hunt dry creek beds surrounded wih tangled pucker brush and gravel and or sand bottoms. As one chap mentioned the more tangled the better; road hunters never venture into this stuff. We have a lot of Ruffies in the area around my camp....some we access by boat and go into the moose pastures....you can hear them running ahead of you....when you don't have a dog along.
Hope this helps, every area is slightly different.. When we lived in southern Saskatchewan, we hunted coulees and dry dry creek runoofs in the Qu'appelle valley as well as hawthorne clumps and Saskatoon patches.Chokecherry clumps were also very productive.
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Ryman Gun Dog
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:46 pm

Sproulman,
You were Grouse hunting in the wrong part of Pa sir, come to north west or north central Pa, we had a very good Grouse
population this season, the wet spring was not cold enough to effect the over all Grouse population on the northern tier at all.
I will be the 1st to admit the southern tier had a serious drop in Grouse numbers, especially in Somerset and Westmoreland counties, were there are also a lot of Grouse hunters. However Grouse hunters have very little effect on the over all Grouse population, especially here in Pa.
RGD/Dave

Penny with her last Grouse of the Pa hunting season.
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crappieguy
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by crappieguy » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:27 am

Once the the snow comes and the Ruffies seem to disappear....try making a fire in the area where you normally hunt grouse. Let the fire burn down...then leave and go deer or bird hunting elsewhere. Return to the area about 4 - 5 hours later and quite likely there will be several birds in close proximity ( 100 - 200 yds.), where the fire was.
I have no idea why this works or happens but it is one of our observations. Learned this trick from American hunters in north western Ontario about 45 years ago. You will still have to hunt the immediate area, but they will be there ( not at the campfire unless you leave marshmallows or hotdogs).
Has anyone else ever tried this?

My son-in-law and I built a warm up fire on 9th Dec/2011 next to a 5 yr old clear cut. Ate lunch and let the fire burn out ( it was -19 deg Celcius). Went deer hunting. Came back to the truck and ATV's about 3 hours later and spotted Ruffies in the clearcut which we had hunted unsuccessfully 4 hours earlier.
Hadn't consciously thought about drawing birds in ...but it seemed to. Hunted the clearcut and put up 4 birds , never shot any but the possibility was there. My son-in-law said that he had heard this before but never tried it. I've never read it in any books...maybe it's just coincidence????
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by JIM K » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:47 am

Ryman Gun Dog wrote:Sproulman,
You were Grouse hunting in the wrong part of Pa sir, come to north west or north central Pa, we had a very good Grouse
population this season, the wet spring was not cold enough to effect the over all Grouse population on the northern tier at all.
I will be the 1st to admit the southern tier had a serious drop in Grouse numbers, especially in Somerset and Westmoreland counties, were there are also a lot of Grouse hunters. However Grouse hunters have very little effect on the over all Grouse population, especially here in Pa.
RGD/Dave

Penny with her last Grouse of the Pa hunting season.
Image

up in your area ,you may have more habitat for grouse.publicland which is managed by DCNR, not much cutting of trees lately in most counties .
cuts that are left are being hunted hard.
no doubt HAbitat is key to having good grouse hunting.

a lot of areas like clinton/cameron/potter have grouse BUT pressure on those good habitat areas are unreal now.
46 years hunting those areas and i have not seen as many hunters with dogs after grouse in all those years as i do now.
grouse numbers are no where near what was in 60s to 70s.

i guess i saw good days when you would see 10 flushes without dog just walking trails in woods.i was out today with my dog and had 1 FLUSH.
i actually like harder hunting on grouse now with less to be seen,i get more excerise walking .
nice info you do offer on grouse hunting and dogs .

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:45 am

Sproulman,
I have to agree about the influx of Grouse hunters, especially on the weekends and over the holidays. Understand however it really does not effect the over all Grouse numbers, but it has made the Grouse even more spooky than normal. No doubt about it the average dog bumps more Grouse here now than ever before, the better Grouse dogs still get the job done however. I especially like seeing the young grouse hunters with their grandfathers and a serious Grouse dog. I sat and watched a young lady with her Grandfather take her
1st Grouse behind a beautiful Ryman Setter dog toward the end of the season, the old man had tears in his eyes and the young lady never even saw it, she was that worked up about her dog, and what she had just accomplished. I will never forget what God granted me that day, you see I have not been blessed with Grand children of my own, when I see the older gentleman as he Grouse hunts, I will thank him for bringing his Granddaughter to the Grouse woods, and passing on our mountain way of life, it means everything to me.
RGD/Dave

An old man and two incredible Grouse Dogs at the end of an evenings hunt.
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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by JIM K » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:04 pm

Ryman Gun Dog wrote:Sproulman,
I have to agree about the influx of Grouse hunters, especially on the weekends and over the holidays. Understand however it really does not effect the over all Grouse numbers, but it has made the Grouse even more spooky than normal. No doubt about it the average dog bumps more Grouse here now than ever before, the better Grouse dogs still get the job done however. I especially like seeing the young grouse hunters with their grandfathers and a serious Grouse dog. I sat and watched a young lady with her Grandfather take her
1st Grouse behind a beautiful Ryman Setter dog toward the end of the season, the old man had tears in his eyes and the young lady never even saw it, she was that worked up about her dog, and what she had just accomplished. I will never forget what God granted me that day, you see I have not been blessed with Grand children of my own, when I see the older gentleman as he Grouse hunts, I will thank him for bringing his Granddaughter to the Grouse woods, and passing on our mountain way of life, it means everything to me.
RGD/Dave

An old man and two incredible Grouse Dogs at the end of an evenings hunt.
Image

i have to agree with you too.most including me cant hit grouse,ha.
but i like to see grouse LIVE.i carry a frozen grouse stripped of meat and throw it in brush after i shoot over heads of grouse. toby then thinks i got it and brings it back to me.
that is fun.no cleaning of grouse and i hope i can return in few days and hunt that grouse over again.

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:27 am

sproulman wrote:i have to agree with you too.most including me cant hit grouse,ha.
but i like to see grouse LIVE.i carry a frozen grouse stripped of meat and throw it in brush after i shoot over heads of grouse. toby then thinks i got it and brings it back to me.
that is fun.no cleaning of grouse and i hope i can return in few days and hunt that grouse over again.

Flushing grouse can be a sure way of killing grouse at certain times of the year, whether you shoot them or not.
Depends upon the area and the grouse's ability to sustain hunter affect....some areas see not a problem for many reasons...for other areas, it is a death knell to the birds.
May be why you are seeing few flushes...grouse both learn and are a fragile bird.
I would suggest you consider past what pleases you or the pup....sometimes and somewhere.
Don't buy the blather of rangewide free passes to hunter additivity in all seasons.
That's a sure road to being a killer.
Nice traditional rep...but often a sad one up close.

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by dakotashooter2 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:36 am

We don't have a lot of grouse (ruffs) here in ND but there are pockets of huntable birds. Not suprisingly I see the most grouse when I am stillhunting deer. I even harvest a few that way. That being said I have learned to slow down when hunting grouse. Most guys try to cover as much territory as possible and I think we pass many birds when doing that. You also have to keep a dog close, even pointers. They have good eyesight and will run if they see the dog before the dog sees or smells them. And don't just focus on the ground they spend a lot of time in the trees. Also take 15 minute breaks and listen for the birds. You often can hear them clucking or drumming if they are near

I would advise getting in the woods in April and May and listening for birds. Track down druming birds, mark those areas and return in the fall. That will give you a good indicator of if there is a huntable population.

I love hunting grouse but rarely get time. Most of my grouse hunting is incidental to bowhunting for deer and I do take them when I get the opportunity.

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:11 pm

Sproulman,
The only danger a young Grouse is in, when being flushed is from predator birds, nothing else. In fact 88% of all Grouse killed
in the RGS/PGC study in Potter County, PA proved that fact, weather after a Grouse has reached flight age, has little if no effect on a Grouses life span. Hunters have so little effect on a Grouse population that the PGC could leave the season open all year around and not adversly effect the over all Grouse population. Predators and poor habitat are the Grouses biggest enemy, not human hunters. GBE was taken to the wood shed by the WVA Grouse Biologists, for his unproven views on late winter Grouse hunting, no laws or bag limits were ever changed because of GBE's unproven opinions.
RGD/Dave

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:22 pm

Dave...you may be able to fool some folks with a bit of upland bling but your knowledge of anything past your own clouded beliefs is as shallow as a flake of Red Dot.

Ohio's season was shortened and no doubt is partially responsible for a blip up in grouse numbers....far from the main cause but most anything helps. I would agree tho that the mountains are an entirely different dynamic than other portions of the grouse range....perhaps tho you should consider past your hat brim when making sweeping statements of generality on ideas for which you truely have not a clue.

As far as the woodshed :D ....anyone with a modicum of sense would realize how true much, not all, of GBE's thoughts have proven to be.

The point with ruffed grouse, Dave, is that Pennsylvania does not define them....nor does Pennsy make them spooky and more difficult to hunt or shoot than elsewhere.
Each area brings it's own struggles past the obvious ones of habitat, avain predators, population demands and the explosian of nest predators resulting from the ever-present deer feeders of today.
Most folks have an experience filter for your posts Dave but please give a thought to the new grouse hunter....don't start him off on the wrong foot with bad ideas.
You live in a great grouse state, have wonderful dogs, nice scatterguns and some time to hunt.....you are lucky.
Just consdier the limits of your knowedge before you burp.
Please.
Thank you.

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by JIM K » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:46 pm

different parts of year cause grouse to move around too.
early you can find them in clear-cuts.in winter they move to HEAVY LAURAL.
i see more grouse NOW in heavy laural than i do in clear cuts.
guess what, i am only one hunting laural in my area,EVERYONE HEADS TO CLEARCUTS.

but you have to have dog that does not chase deer.
you will get dog in trap hunting this way too.
i agree with HAWKS.i liked too tell you what i think every hunter should do when they see a hawk, :twisted:

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:44 pm

Mountaineer,
Your limited knowledge of Grouse biology and habitat management show all the time, Ohio changed its laws due to minimal habitat nothing else. Unproven habitat management and unproven theory like GBE's winter Grouse hunting have been passed around for a long time now, you might try using proven biological fact from repetative studies by the RGS and PGC to expand your biological education when it come to Grouse populations, and habitat management & hunting. You might want to talk to Eric Miller our PGC/SGL biologist and learn more about proven Grouse management before you continue to mislead hunters with unproven theories.
RGD/Dave

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:34 pm

David....Ohio has a paper mill....it still needs fed, coal ground exists....there is prime grouse cover in Ohio, now.
Not what it should be...but it is there...too often empty.
The ice storm area has yet to respond as predicted tho and the Wayne is down below 3% ES....and 12 million or so folks does make a difference.
Yet once again, you are wrong....in specificity of comment and in equating grouse as equal across the range.
Your grouse knowledge outside your coverts is quite limited...your rants at hawks are wasteful of energy and serve only to spin folks away from where help would be better placed for the bird we both love and respect.
While I can't quite match 50 years grouse hunting, i have made 46 years....enjoy that with which you are blessed David but ease up on the lies and puffery. You have pluses galore re ruffed grouse w/o all the blather and self-aggrandizing BS.

As far as biologists....one will find even degreed biologists disagreeing about many factors of gamebirds, especially decline.
I heard the RGS biologist give his dog & pony show in So. WVa once....his comments re grouse biology/needs were pooh-poohed by a PHD biologist with the USF&W service....He, the RGS fella, had no rebuttal to the counter points raised.
Grouse decline is a difficult and complicated issue and consensus is not present as to cause or cure...past the trite cutting timber, of course.
More thought is needed to really make a difference but you it seems are unable to think past what you either imagine or, too often, exxaggerate.
Much of the different thought was expressed at the ACGRP presentation...I was there...were you?
Simply put, we need to think past Habitat and stop rating decline factors with silly numbers...everything is important.
Finally, the WVa DNR Comish came out in print with his own experienced thoughts regarding considering past ourselves as grouse hunters. That was good to read and gives a measure of hope that more and more are thinking past the shallowness you espouse.
But, I expect you would find some route to downplay those comments, David.....too sad that.

I could fall to defending a dead man's thoughts David but I expect it would be best to do as GBE himself might have done....ask what is a Dave Buehner and who cares what he says?

Name-dropping is a sign of an unsure individual, Dave.....good luck.

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Ruffshooter » Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:10 am

Ryman Gun Dog wrote:Sproulman,
GBE was taken to the wood shed by the WVA Grouse Biologists, for his unproven views on late winter Grouse hunting, no laws or bag limits were ever changed because of GBE's unproven opinions.
RGD/Dave
Some tried to use that information along with Unproven anecdotal evidence to change our season. Luckily it failed.

Grouse are not effected by winter hunting/flushes. That is their life. If it affected them there would be no grouse.
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:26 am

Ruffshooter,
Eric Miller our PGC/SGL head biologists is one of the most knowledgeable Grouse and Woodcock Biologist in the world, he just completed & had published another study on Woodcock, he is working with the Forester up on the West Branch of Pine Creek to improve Woodcock and Grouse habitat right now, you should here him talk about all this unproven garbage concerning late winter Grouse hunting and also how some biologist have wrong ideas about how wet springs drastically effect Grouse populations. I thought he was going to hang our new female PGC Grouse Biologist up by the hair, when she started down the wet spring path. For weather to adversly effect Grouse chicks it must be both very cold and wet for a good period of time, what most people do not know is that wet warm springs, incresase insect populations, which the young Grouse chicks need to feed on, to grow to flight age quickly, so they can have a better chance at reaching reproduction age themselves. Wet weather alone is actually no detriment to Grouse chicks, in fact its an advantage to them.
There is a lot of misinformation floating around and GBE did not help matters any, with his unproven theories, sure did help keep his readers out of his Grouse coverts in the winter time however. Poor habitat and Flying Predators adversely effect over all Grouse populations, not sport hunting.
RGD/Dave

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by JIM K » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:52 pm

maybe i need to set up meeting here in clinton county with that PGC grouseman.dad used to say wet springs did affect birds like turkeys.
he also said the raccoons etc would eat eggs.
back then they shot all owls/hawks they could.

i have hawk on my telephone pole here.every 2 weeks i find grouse feathers on ground. i find bluejay also.why cant we shoot these "bleep".

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:24 am

Jim K,
If you will remember in our fathers era the springs were not only wet they were most times very cold also, and I do believe the
men of that era understood it took both situations to effect the Grouse population, some how our younger generations seem to think
Grouse are not a hearty bird, when the exact oppsite is actually true. In that era they had the perfect forest habitat here also,
and the men shot every flying predator they saw, and the predator bird populations was still stable, keeping the Grouse population very high. With the advent of minimal logging and less prime habitat, along with the illegal treaties protecting predator birds, the Grouse population dropped severely here in the eastern part of the USA. In my Grandfathers era here in Pa they shot 10 Grouse a day and had the Grouse population to accommodate that type of Grouse hunting. We will never see this incredible Grouse population again, the forest mismangement and the flying Predator problems
that the politicians have created, will never permit a great small game population again. Biologist like Bill Palmer & Eric Miller are the only chance hunters have to save what habitat we have left here in the east, the Politicians finally forced Bill Palmer to retire, however young men like Eric Miller maybe our last chance to turn this political problem around, I do believe they are learning how to play the political game when it comes to forest management, sooner or later the treaties governing predator birds must be delt with also. The truth is the politicians want to shorten all hunting seasons and charge bigger & bigger money to hunt, forcing the US to become more like Europe where only the rich can afford to sport hunt, the American hunters & NRA better start using their political mussle if they want to save what we have left, especially here in Pa. You have already seen the Grouse population drop down around Renovo, how many more generations before it works up the mountain toward where I live also. Lets hope SGL Biologist like Eric Miller can reverse the trend.
RGD/Dave
Last edited by Ryman Gun Dog on Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by Ruffshooter » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:43 am

As an observation:
The springs that affect the chicks and even before, the eggs/nests are the ones with late heavy snows and a lot of surface water from rains and run off.

Even then if they loose their chicks they mostly will have a second hatch or if not hatched out a later hatch.

Yes those grouse are more likely to get shot by road hunters but if not they have a good chance at winter survival.

I think Turkeys, in addition to natural predators and scavengers, have a big effect on grouse populations and obviously habitat age. I have seen empty shells and turkey tracks in a ruff nest.

You will see the most Grouse in the younger transitional forests, one that are managed or abandoned homesteads/farms/orchards etc. There are still grouse in old growth forest but fewer and further between. Those grouse are the most wildly in my Opinion. You want a real prize the old hen or cock in an old forest is it. IMO
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.

Rick

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Re: tips for getting started on grouse...

Post by crappieguy » Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:57 pm

Rec'd the book Serious Grouse Hunting..Book1. Went out three times in the last week looking for birds and listening for drumming. The difference now ; since reading THE BOOK, i'm looking in different types of locations and have spotted and heard birds where I never thought they existed. Buy the book. We've had an extremely early spring up here we're getting rainy days and evenings and lots of warmth..as a matter of fact the ticks are already out. Never worried about them until May in the past. Even saw butterflies yesterday. Hoping the weather cooperates and the insect cycle cooperates. We had a really good season the last three years ..here's hoping that it continues in 2012!
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote." Benjamin Franklin

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