Upland retrievers/flushers?

[AG74]

OK, I'm not trying to start any fights, nor am I trying to start a flusher/pointer feud, or whose dog is better feud....

All that being said, on another forum a guy asked what some of us thought about using a flusher to hunt upland game... this is in Oregon where chukar country is BIG country and the cover sparse.

my opinion was that a pointer would usually cover more ground and should therefore produce more birds for the gun. About 5 other pointer guys agreed. One particular retriever guy (golden, I believe) was adamant that amount of ground covered does in NO WAY equate to birds produced...

From a simple math standpoint, I'd think that it would have to, dogs' nose ability being equal....

Any opinions on this statement? Again, this is not to incite retriever vs pointer feuding, nor which is better at upland. Just a matter of: does ground covered productively equate to amount of birds produced?

[fireangel]

I think that it really depends on what kind of cover your are hunting as well as the birds that you are hunting. I have not hunted upland outside of North Dakota. Some big CRP fields, I definitely think that more area covered produces more birds. Tree rows in a field, all that needs to be covered is the trees so covering the other ground is just the dog getting extra exercise.

[nikegundog]

In light cover I'm going to say pointers are going to win the battle, in a large thick CRP field or cattails I'm going with flushers.

[QuillGordon]

Retriever/flusher fellers make wise choices on the type of cover that they are going to tackle with a close working hound. They do not primarily depend on the dog to find the game but know the game & put the dog in the best possible place to produce. A well thought out strategy. Also, the retrievers seem to do a better job with windwashed birds as well as singles/doubles & runners in my opinion. I dunno maybe a better nose for detail with the retrievers. The key to a retriever is being able to read their body language and being able to apply the brakes at the right time. They can wind scent from great distances and if you clue in on it and follow the dog he'll lead you to the quarry. Retrieving wise? Well their is none better in my opinion. There were many times I was overwhelmed with the vastness of the terrain & the thought of only having a close working dog to cover it but we ended up with plenty of birds in the bag by the end of the day


Oak

[AG74]

Retriever/flusher fellers make wise choices on the type of cover that they are going to tackle with a close working hound. They do not primarily depend on the dog to find the game but know the game & put the dog in the best possible place to produce. A well thought out strategy. Also, the retrievers seem to do a better job with windwashed birds as well as singles/doubles & runners in my opinion. I dunno maybe a better nose for detail with the retrievers. The key to a retriever is being able to read their body language and being able to apply the brakes at the right time. They can wind scent from great distances and if you clue in on it and follow the dog he'll lead you to the quarry. Retrieving wise? Well their is none better in my opinion. There were many times I was overwhelmed with the vastness of the terrain & the thought of only having a close working dog to cover it but we ended up with plenty of birds in the bag by the end of the day

Pretty dog and picture! That's exactly the type of terrain we're talking about!

[QuillGordon]

Not that I would recommend hunting Chuks with a retriever. It can be quite dangerous at times trying to keep up with them in the nasty terrain where Chuks reside. And although most retrievers can handle it, it sure does help to have a tough hardheaded sob to really be successful. I've aged/tired and today this is my Chukar hound


Creek

[orbirdhunter]

I know the thread you are talking about, and the guy in particular. All things being equal, in oregon chukar country the dog who covers more ground, to a certain point...wins. However, all things not being equal. If your a gentleman who hunts chukars 50 days a year in the same area's year after year then you learn about where the birds are going to be, and don't need a ranging dog, you can put the dog right in the hot zone and he can narrow in from there.
Its just like pheasant hunting...if your in a wheat stubble field thats mowed pretty tight with a cattail infested spring creek running through the middle of it you don't need a pointer to run 400 yards quartering out in the field, might find a couple birds out there but the smart money is to hunt right up/down that spring with the cover, and in the condensed area you could hunt with a flusher or pointer and get the birds either way.......same concept...
If you know that the birds tend to roost along a certain area of rocks you can work those, then you know that the one south facing point has the fresh cheat grass shoots that they are feeding on you go hit that, then drop down mid day and swing by the two gurglers where they water....well you can cover that with any dog.

what it all boils down to is i think that HE is a better chukar hunter then most...he knows where to put his dogs to find the birds...

[AG74]

I know the thread you are talking about, and the guy in particular. All things being equal, in oregon chukar country the dog who covers more ground, to a certain point...wins. However, all things not being equal. If your a gentleman who hunts chukars 50 days a year in the same area's year after year then you learn about where the birds are going to be, and don't need a ranging dog, you can put the dog right in the hot zone and he can narrow in from there.
Its just like pheasant hunting...if your in a wheat stubble field thats mowed pretty tight with a cattail infested spring creek running through the middle of it you don't need a pointer to run 400 yards quartering out in the field, might find a couple birds out there but the smart money is to hunt right up/down that spring with the cover, and in the condensed area you could hunt with a flusher or pointer and get the birds either way.......same concept...
If you know that the birds tend to roost along a certain area of rocks you can work those, then you know that the one south facing point has the fresh cheat grass shoots that they are feeding on you go hit that, then drop down mid day and swing by the two gurglers where they water....well you can cover that with any dog.

what it all boils down to is i think that HE is a better chukar hunter then most...he knows where to put his dogs to find the birds...

That's a fair answer. Thanks. I suppose when I have "hundreds of days afield" I'll pretty much be able to find the birds also.... that will be a few years down the road, though...

[DonF]

I know what guy your talking about too. He does that just for the sake of stiring the fire I think. Cover dictates the type of dog that will work best.

[Christopher]

Hunt whatever type of dog you have. I've killed just as many partridges over Labs as I have birddogs but more pheasants over labs. I think I may know the thread you are talking about too.

Don has a point here too. We want to match the dog to the cover. If I hunted heavy cover pheasants exclusively, my new pup would be a Lab not a Pointer.

[deke]

I think alot has to do with how the dog was taught. I have one lab that will hunt hard cover strictly, because that is what he was taught to hunt. My new lab, who is a pointing lab, went to a trainer for a few months and when he came back we tried to get him to hunt heavy cover and he could not figure it out for about a month, then we got to SD, and figured out that he was taught to hunt open fields by the trainer. So, you can get a lab to hunt fields, maybe not as fast as a pointer, but it will get the job done.

[Fran Seagren]

I think the previous posts all have good information.

We have two red setters and two labs and we live in western Washington. We hunt ruffed grouse here on the west side, and pheasants and quail in eastern Washington. Typically, we'll hunt our red dogs in the more open areas and the labs in the thicker stuff. Any of the dogs can and do hunt any cover, but we are usually more successful if we use their individual specialties in the cover they are best suited for. Ruffed grouse hunting is the exception. Both our setters and the labs have done equally well at finding grouse. The real challenge is for us to get a shot off before the bird disappears in the woods.

[Sage]

Not that I would recommend hunting Chuks with a retriever. It can be quite dangerous at times trying to keep up with them in the nasty terrain where Chuks reside. And although most retrievers can handle it, it sure does help to have a tough hardheaded sob to really be successful. I've aged/tired and today this is my Chukar hound


Creek

Just wanted to say
thats a beautiful Shorthair you got there. Makes me think of the one I had growning up sadly he passed away because some sob hit him and took off. He was am amazing dog. Anyways hope you many years of good huntin with your Shorthair (: