Astro vs beeper vs bell

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MN Bonasa
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Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by MN Bonasa » Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:53 pm

Bear with me, last year was the first season I had with a gun dog.... ever. everything ended fine and I had a great time in the field with my new pup. however there were a couple of incidents when I temp. lost my dog in the woods for a brief time. A few moments of anxiety turned into relief and all was good. But those situations prompted me to buy the Astro this spring. The thing is awesome and I love it. Not only will I be using the astro this season, and using a e-collar also, and not to mention a regular collar. I had just the e-collar & reg collar last season along with a bell. My thinking with the astro is to have it more for emergency backup and data gathering. Basically turn it on and not look at it every three minutes. Also, either still using a bell or buying a beeper to continue to have that audible relation to where the dog is. Now is this going to be to much bling-bling on the dogs neck? I am in the belief having a backup is a good idea. Anyone else plan on using the Astro with either a beeper or bell in the grouse woods and or pheasant fields. If the astro fails for whatever reason when the dog is some distance away, then what if you don't have a bell or beeper? Start blowing on your whistle and hope for the best.... my dog doesn't run that big, but the one time she gets on a scent and its a windy day my garmin will fail.....

jimbo&rooster
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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by jimbo&rooster » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:59 pm

I see a few dogs here on the mine property that wear both beepers and an Astro, or some other type of tracker. I personally hate the sound of a beeper though I ran one for several years. I always just had my beeper on the same collar as my Ecollar.

As far as running a dog wearing too much bling goes, my dogs often wear a tracking collar, an ECollar, and a flat collar. If you dont necessarily want to run an extra collar for the bell you can always put it on a snap and hook it to any of the collars your already running.

Jim
A limit on the strap is nice, but the kill has nothing to do with tradition.

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by JIM K » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:03 pm

astros dont work well in pa in bigwoods. too much canope on trees.
i just use BELL but looking at getting the lovetts collar .may not even get that. old school ,hard to break me.

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by Ken Lynch » Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:38 pm

JMO - Started out with Bell. Went to beeper. Dropped back to Beep on point only. Then went to tracker with notification on point. Then got beeper that could be turned off and on remotely. If you pay attention to the dog while hunting you need none of the above 90% of the time. Even the big running dogs. If you pay attention to them you know when to go looking for them. They take a line, or go into cover. If they do not come out where you expect them then it is time to look for them. The other 10% of the time if you have a beeper that you can remotely turn on you do so and if it starts beeping because the dog is on point then you go find it. Otherwise the turn on signal lets you know where the dog is. Works the same for the GPS tracker collars. Bottom line learn to read your dog and when you go hunting pay attention to the dog.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:09 am

I was a point-only beeper and bell guy in the grouse woods.
The Astro is a marvel...however, I still run a bell( a good bell) with the Astro for the instant feedback of location and activity in the woods.
The point indication on the Astro is too faint for me...sometimes I hear it and sometimes not.
I am trying to wean myself from the beeper abd did not use it last season...easier since ATS went South.
A beeper in the grouse woods tho, on point only, gives an easier and quicker location than an Astro.
Especially when the hunter is moving thru thick cover.
This all can hinge upon the dog and it's manner of hunt.

Having used the Astro in the appalatchians and the U.P. for grouse and woodcock, signal loss from canopy can occasionally occur but is not much of a problem.
Often cited, but seldom an issue for long or of any consequence.

On a 45# english setter, a beeper and Astro, were no apparent burden.
Never asked the dog tho.
But, I do expect the Astro and bell would get a paw's up from the dogs.

I almost never use an e-collar so can't speak to that burden.
Likely why the new Alpha gets the nod from many.
Too many eggs in one basket with that unit for me tho.

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by Remmag » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:00 pm

Last weekend I ran my dog in the PA woods with as heavy canopy as you're likely to find, and my Astro nether missed a beat.

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by JIM K » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:44 am

Ken Lynch wrote:JMO - Started out with Bell. Went to beeper. Dropped back to Beep on point only. Then went to tracker with notification on point. Then got beeper that could be turned off and on remotely. If you pay attention to the dog while hunting you need none of the above 90% of the time. Even the big running dogs. If you pay attention to them you know when to go looking for them. They take a line, or go into cover. If they do not come out where you expect them then it is time to look for them. The other 10% of the time if you have a beeper that you can remotely turn on you do so and if it starts beeping because the dog is on point then you go find it. Otherwise the turn on signal lets you know where the dog is. Works the same for the GPS tracker collars. Bottom line learn to read your dog and when you go hunting pay attention to the dog.
this is way my trainer does it.
he uses a dogtra 2000 collar.
he beeps dog to find out where it is ONLY. he runs with NO BELL here in pa.
his is ryman setter and you can see dog MOST of times.
if it goes in brush and he cant see it, HE BEEPS 1 time.
to recall dog he beeps 2 times.

thats it,NO POINT ONLY BEEP or anything else.
Last edited by JIM K on Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by JIM K » Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:46 am

Remmag wrote:Last weekend I ran my dog in the PA woods with as heavy canopy as you're likely to find, and my Astro nether missed a beat.

how about sending RYMAN GUN DOG a comment on that.
he tested a GARMIN that client brought and it did not work under leaves last year.
my handheld garmin legend will not work also. scares the h out of you in woods just be dark coming out .

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:11 am

Again, overhead cover can be an issue but normally only a brief one......that from the Apps and the U.P.
More an issue can be terrain and signal interruption...again only temporary but it can occur.
Not a deal breaker compared to the advantages of the unit....and the human user makes a big difference in problems or fretting over problems.
That is the best take-away.
It is a good unit with positives and some negative particulars to which one can adapt.

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by Melvin4730 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:45 am

Im just getting into bird dogs, but we've ran coon dogs and squirrel dogs with the Garmin Astro for years. Obviously, we use it exclusively in the woods (in the mountains). There are a few times that it will loose signal for a few seconds, but it always links back. Our dogs get out to about 600 yards and we keep track of them.

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by Wyobio » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:30 pm

I have the new Garmin/TT Alpha GPS/trainer. I have always run beepers (point only mode) and find the ability to locate the tone to be much more intuitive than having to keep looking at the handheld unit, then looking up for the dog (not to mention the terrain) then back to the handheld. Could just need more experience, but I think they are better for wide open country than the grouse woods.

I hunt the big steep Wyoming mountains, and frequently lost contact with the transmitter. It always came back pretty quickly, but I knew the dog was not very far away, just behind a ridge.

Funniest experience was having the unit tell me the dog was on point. I looked at the arrow/compass that tells you what direction and how far away the dog is. As I watched, the arrow would swing 360 degrees, telling me the transmitter was north, er east, er, south er west. Doh! Meanwhile the dog is on point 60 yards away, adn I have no idea which direction to go. To be fair, this was some very rugged and heavily canopied terrain, and it did eventially direct me to the dog. But it took more attention than just listening for the hawk scream of the beeper coller.

I am still partial to the beeper for grouse, but am looking forward to using the Alpha in the Dakotas and the Chukar hills......

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by terrym » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:24 am

I run with a garmin 320, A Dogtra 2500 tb and a bell. The bell is for continuous contact, the doctra for an occasional locator beep. And the garmin in case he ranges out of bell/beeper range. Lots of crap but dog doesn't care at all.
I don't like people who don't like dogs......

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by JIM K » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:48 pm

that is way most here in my area of pa do it to OTHER than they dont use GARMIN.
they use dogtra 2000/2500 t&b to LOCATE DOG .most never use the shock at all.
most run bell .
some dont use bell at all, they run silent and if they needd to find pup,they push button on dogtra .

garmin cuts in/out with leaves on trees or heavy pine trees.
its iffy if it works?
they only reason for dogtra other than the BEEP to locate is you could shock dog if he chases a deer or bear.

if not for those things you could just use beeper collar that you can turn on/of via a remote like dogtra does.
right now on whiskers i am only using BELL.

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by Az Draht » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:24 pm

Wyobio wrote: Funniest experience was having the unit tell me the dog was on point. I looked at the arrow/compass that tells you what direction and how far away the dog is. As I watched, the arrow would swing 360 degrees, telling me the transmitter was north, er east, er, south er west. Doh! Meanwhile the dog is on point 60 yards away, adn I have no idea which direction to go. To be fair, this was some very rugged and heavily canopied terrain, and it did eventially direct me to the dog. But it took more attention than just listening for the hawk scream of the beeper coller.
When your dog is on point, do not stop walking when you check your alpha. The gps is most accurate when you are moving. That should help with the rotating compass

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by JIM K » Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:27 am

Az Draht wrote:
Wyobio wrote: Funniest experience was having the unit tell me the dog was on point. I looked at the arrow/compass that tells you what direction and how far away the dog is. As I watched, the arrow would swing 360 degrees, telling me the transmitter was north, er east, er, south er west. Doh! Meanwhile the dog is on point 60 yards away, adn I have no idea which direction to go. To be fair, this was some very rugged and heavily canopied terrain, and it did eventially direct me to the dog. But it took more attention than just listening for the hawk scream of the beeper coller.
When your dog is on point, do not stop walking when you check your alpha. The gps is most accurate when you are moving. That should help with the rotating compass
i had garmin legend. i was in thick woods here in pa and a bad storm moved in.
i was WAYBACK. i started to walk and satellites went out. :roll:

man was i scared for few minutes.
it was DARK you could not see.

now my GPS goes out.

thank god i had compass and new i had to come our north to road.
i ended up not close to truck but walked road back too it. :(

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by Border » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:39 pm

Jim K, thats a good point about the GPS going out. Not to get off subject but I always wondered about that when hunting big woods in NH and Maine. I figured I might be way back in some day and a war erupts and all the satellites go out. Thats why I always have a compass too. Dont think they can turn off the North Pole yet!
As for beeper,bell,Garmin. I wouldnt hunt around here in New Hampshire without my beeper collar on my dog. I tried a bell for a while but had a hard time locating her on point in thick cover. I dont want to have to keep taking out a transmitter to activate a beeper when needed so just run a Tri Tronics stand alone beeper all the time. I have it set for one beep every 5 seconds in run mode and every second on point.

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by JIM K » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:05 am

Border wrote:Jim K, thats a good point about the GPS going out. Not to get off subject but I always wondered about that when hunting big woods in NH and Maine. I figured I might be way back in some day and a war erupts and all the satellites go out. Thats why I always have a compass too. Dont think they can turn off the North Pole yet!
As for beeper,bell,Garmin. I wouldnt hunt around here in New Hampshire without my beeper collar on my dog. I tried a bell for a while but had a hard time locating her on point in thick cover. I dont want to have to keep taking out a transmitter to activate a beeper when needed so just run a Tri Tronics stand alone beeper all the time. I have it set for one beep every 5 seconds in run mode and every second on point.
i was going to get one like that BUT my trainer friend said NO. he said, WHAT IF YOUR PUP CHASES A DEER OR BEAR?you need to shock him.
so he rec DOGTRA 2000/2500 T&B COLLAR.

he uses NO BELL .when ES goes in brush and does not come out,HE IS ON POINT.
to locate dog,if necessary he pushes the button 1 time and it beeps.
most of time you can see dog working out front no more than 75 yds or so.
he mounted his transmitter on his outside jacket ,left side shoulder.
he pushes button 2 times to call dog back to him.

i was just going to get collar that beeps on point like you have but he said,YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE SHOCK FEATURE in case of emergeny etc.
trust me, GPS does go out ,early oct it goes out bigtime with leaves on trees and cloudy weather.
heck my satellite dish at home goes out with bad weather at times.

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by nj gsp » Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:04 pm

I run a bell, point-only mode beeper, TT EXP e-collar, and use an Astro 320 / DC40 collar. I was in the woods of Maine last week which makes the PA woods look like open prairie, and never lost signal on either the dogs or the 320. I tried to go without the beeper and just use the Astro, but there is no doubt the beeper on point mode gets you to where the dog is faster. My dogs are handling the birds well, and when they are on point they will not budge - but the grouse will grow weary of the dog eventually and flush, so I gotta get there fast and get in position for a shot if I want a crack at it. I'm finding I like my dogs to be heard more often than seen and run out there on the edge of bell range, so I am relying on sound more than anything else. The Astro mostly provides peace of mind, which to me is priceless.

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by Remmag » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:44 pm

All three have their pros & cons. A bell or beeper that you can hear 75 yards in heavy cover; next to a dogs ear must be horrendous to their hearing. Beepers & GPS are mechanical/electrial and subject to failure. Even bells failed in the winter when clogged with snow. But as I said earlier, I've not had the GPS fail because of heavy cover. With that said and having tried all three, I like the GPS.

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by rkappes » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:43 am

Remmag wrote:next to a dogs ear must be horrendous to their hearing.
I've always wondered if bells damaged dogs hearing?

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:26 pm

rkappes wrote:
Remmag wrote:next to a dogs ear must be horrendous to their hearing.
I've always wondered if bells damaged dogs hearing?

I think that can happen but depends upon the bell and the dog.

Returned from 5 days in the U.P. with the Astro losing signal rarely and for a short time measured in a few seconds....cover is as thick as anything in Pa. but the terrain might be the issue.
One confused 12 year-old dog out to .6 mile thru a swamp.....the Astro has no negatives to counter the return of a dog.
Forget the signal loss...lost leader for whining and ignorance.
Unbelievable how bad info gets spread on the Interent.
Sift the negatives well.

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by 12Gauge » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:34 pm

I have the astro 220 with the old dc 20 collar. The only thing I don't like is the dc20 I use the backpack type harness. I need to get the newest collar less bulky no broken antennas and no backpack. I love always knowing where my dog is all the time even if I don't need to. I have used a bell but I just get tired of hearing it. With the astro I can see if she is running away from me or back to me or if she is on point. It comes in handy for me in thick cover just to find her. It is a safety net I don't look at it very often anymore but I know it's there it makes for a nice quite hunt. I do always have a bell in my vest for back up but I have never needed it.

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Re: Astro vs beeper vs bell

Post by nj gsp » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:37 am

I have a very high quality digital dB meter at work, if I remember next week I'll see how many dBs the bells I have produce. It's not like you run a bell on your dog every single day - or all day - for that matter. Usually the risk of hearing loss is determined by exposure over a long period of time, and the amount of time is determined by the decibel level. A dog's hearing is not the same as human hearing, so that has to be taken into consideration.

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