Gun Dog Forum

I'm new to waterfowl hunting. I've hunted with hounds before and love seeing a hunting dog work. Are there any breed of bird dogs that are bred for all around hunting. Like waterfowl, upland, and fur? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

GSP GWP WPHG EB SM LM Lab, Chessie.

Thanks for the info, I'll start reading up on those different breeds.

I think if you get a jack of all trades it's gonna be somewhat deficient in several of them. But you might disagree with that depending on how much value you place on dog work. I know of a guy in eastern Colorado that does his bird hunting with his cow dog and is happy as a clam. Climate in the area you hunt will possibly dictate to some degree what will work. Short hair European dogs don't have the undercoat to handle a lot of freezing water. Retriever's are short haired but have a good undercoat. Freezing probably won't bother them in the least. But, hunting hot weather for upland in the fall might. You'll probably hear from people that hunt their versatile on everything and their retriever on everything. For them it works just as the guys cow dog in Colorado. Were i you, I'd decide what I'll do the most in what kind of weather and get a breed that thrives in it and make do in the rest.

Drahthaar comes to mind when you throw fur into the mix. Mountain Cur would come to mind except for the waterfowling part. Hard to beat a good Lab either. I had a Chessie that would squirrel hunt though. Best pheasant dog I've seen as well.

I say Drahthaar and Vizsla.

DD sounds about right

I would look at the Vizsla and GSP's. Mine hunt ducks, dove, quail, phez chukars, compete in AKC, NAVHDA, NASTRA and Hunt Tests. They don't call them The Versatile Vizsla for no reason.

What you describe is exactly what the Deutsch - Drahthaar was developed for, no other breed comes close. Check this out http://www.vdd-gna.org/
I have owned and tested and hunted the breed for many years now along with the Jagd Terrier. We hunt upland and water fowl as well as all types of furred game and boar. There are very few people in the USA that use their dogs for anything other than birds. Don't fall into believing any dog will do it when they haven't been hunted or tested on that type of game in many generations, if ever.I just did a DD breeding out of some of the best performing dogs in the world and should have some pups whelping around the middle of December if you are interested. viewtopic.php?f=120&t=37915

Mike Schlapa

vom Mountain Creek Deutsch - Drahthaars

maybe look into a pudlepointer..... Im thinking that will be what replaces my lab.

Jim

Georgia Boy wrote:What you describe is exactly what the Deutsch - Drahthaar was developed for, no other breed comes close.

Ya, ok. :roll: Here we go. No other breed of dog can come close to a DD and my grandma is the only one that make chocolate cookies.

Do your research, there are all kinds of breeds that can do what you want.

Gsp, DD, gwp some very fine versatile breeds.

Munster wrote:

Georgia Boy wrote:What you describe is exactly what the Deutsch - Drahthaar was developed for, no other breed comes close.

Ya, ok. :roll: Here we go. No other breed of dog can come close to a DD and my grandma is the only one that make chocolate cookies.

Do your research, there are all kinds of breeds that can do what you want.

The DD is by far the most widely used breed of dog for the type of versatile work the OP described, unless your idea of furred game is bunny rabbits Are there other breeds of dog that may be capable of doing the work? Yes, but they are not very popular in the USA at this time and anything else would be a crap shoot at best.
Munster, get your panties out of a wad :roll: Any time you want to come hunt some Boar, Coyote, Bobcat, Badger, Fox, or Coon along with the birds and ducks you are more than welcome to tag along but would probably leave your dog in the box. :roll:

Georgia Boy wrote:

Munster wrote:

Georgia Boy wrote:What you describe is exactly what the Deutsch - Drahthaar was developed for, no other breed comes close.

Ya, ok. :roll: Here we go. No other breed of dog can come close to a DD and my grandma is the only one that make chocolate cookies.

Do your research, there are all kinds of breeds that can do what you want.

The DD is by far the most widely used breed of dog for the type of versatile work the OP described, unless your idea of furred game is bunny rabbits Are there other breeds of dog that may be capable of doing the work? Yes, but they are not very popular in the USA at this time and anything else would be a crap shoot at best.
Munster, get your panties out of a wad :roll: Any time you want to come hunt some Boar, Coyote, Bobcat, Badger, Fox, or Coon along with the birds and ducks you are more than welcome to tag along but would probably leave your dog in the box. :roll:

And the same might be said whenever you want to run your dog in a trial or out in the big country for birds. There is more than one breed but they are all differnt, not one better than the rest.

Ezzy

Georgia Boy wrote:The DD is by far the most widely used breed of dog for the type of versatile work the OP described, unless your idea of furred game is bunny rabbits Are there other breeds of dog that may be capable of doing the work? Yes, but they are not very popular in the USA at this time and anything else would be a crap shoot at best.
Munster, get your panties out of a wad :roll: Any time you want to come hunt some Boar, Coyote, Bobcat, Badger, Fox, or Coon along with the birds and ducks you are more than welcome to tag along but would probably leave your dog in the box. :roll:

VDD testing includes Boar, Coyote, Bobcat, or Badger? Not sure how I missed seeing that at the tests I've watched. The Fox is dead in the test, and the hardness test can be done on a cat or a coon, and I've seen some small coon used. My own AKC shorthairs could pass a hardness test. While you may be hunting boar, coyote, and badger--how many others do you really think are? The DD owners I know don't, and I imagine that has a lot to do with the nuisance animals in an owners region. Munster's dog has tested VGP and a hardness test, proven himself not any different than any of the Drahthaars I've seen tested, so why would her dog stay in the box? Either the testing means something or it doesn't. :roll:

Georgia Boy wrote:What you describe is exactly what the Deutsch - Drahthaar was developed for, no other breed comes close. Check this out http://www.vdd-gna.org/
I have owned and tested and hunted the breed for many years now along with the Jagd Terrier. We hunt upland and water fowl as well as all types of furred game and boar. There are very few people in the USA that use their dogs for anything other than birds. Don't fall into believing any dog will do it when they haven't been hunted or tested on that type of game in many generations, if ever.I just did a DD breeding out of some of the best performing dogs in the world and should have some pups whelping around the middle of December if you are interested. viewtopic.php?f=120&t=37915

Mike Schlapa

vom Mountain Creek Deutsch - Drahthaars

A cold day in Georgia might be T shirt weather in other states. A wet pointing dog isn't in to much trouble unless it's constantly going into and out of water. Then it's gonna depend on the dog. I hunted ducks in Montana a lot of years ago. Had springer's and labs. The springer's did retrieve in the water but about the time they were balking at the water, the labs were just getting comfortable.

Georgia Boy wrote:

Munster wrote:

Georgia Boy wrote:What you describe is exactly what the Deutsch - Drahthaar was developed for, no other breed comes close.

Ya, ok. :roll: Here we go. No other breed of dog can come close to a DD and my grandma is the only one that make chocolate cookies.

Do your research, there are all kinds of breeds that can do what you want.

The DD is by far the most widely used breed of dog for the type of versatile work the OP described, unless your idea of furred game is bunny rabbits Are there other breeds of dog that may be capable of doing the work? Yes, but they are not very popular in the USA at this time and anything else would be a crap shoot at best.
Munster, get your panties out of a wad :roll: Any time you want to come hunt some Boar, Coyote, Bobcat, Badger, Fox, or Coon along with the birds and ducks you are more than welcome to tag along but would probably leave your dog in the box. :roll:

Just because a DD is a dime a dozen doesnt mean that it is the most capable dog. Just had my newest imported pups breeder depart from our home back to Germany. What does he use all his FEMALE Munsterlanders for? Hmmmmmmm, Wild Boar and Fox. Not the little piglet boar of the US either.

But, I am not going to have a pissing match with the arrogance of the majority of the DD world because 1. I dont have the right plumbing and 2. it isnt worth it to me.and 3. your post smelled more of a non paid advertiser post then anything informative.

There are several of the V-Dog breeds that will suit the OP posters needs.

Griff! FEAR THE BEARD!

LAB is the definition of an all around dog.

Weimaraner. For all around hunting is a great dog. Smarter than heck too. My first hunting dag was a Weim. Very good on upland, very good in the water, big enough to pucj through heavy grass/reeds/cattails. Weims were bred to hunt big game. My Weim bitch was big - 75-80lbs and I bred her once to a huge male (110lbs) so I know there are some Great Dane sized Weims floating around. If your dog is going to be inside Weims are good choices as long as you give them enough exercise and attention. If bored they can get destructive like most dogs only more so.

I now have a Vizsla (good choice) but they are tougher to deal with in the house - lot's of activity! All day energy and speed to burn. Mine is not a great water dog but I think that's more my fault as I pretty much only duck hunt once a year and never trained him to swim well. He's big too and would be a great all around hunter if I all around hunted.

Pudelpointer would be another that was mentioned. Just about got one but ended up with a Branque Francais. I was looking for a bird dog that was good in the house to appease Momma. Braque is a great choice for that.

I like Labs for all around use and as a hunting house pet, but I have a friend that hunts everything form upland birds to the Fed-Ex guy with a well trained and very smart German Shepard... I like DOGS... find one that YOU like and suits your specific needs and get it... The point is, there is no dog that does EVERYTHING better than ALL OTHER BREEDS! :roll: I really think that most of the time it's as much about the induvidual dog as it is anything else... When you find the dog you like... get it.

Draat or Pudelpointer. I've never owned one but from experience I know what they can and will do so if you are a serious hunter who spends many days afield, want a very high prey drive in your dog, Draathar is the way to go. They are easily the most dependable of all breeds when it comes to blood tracking, hunting wounded game with feather or fur. By dependable, I mean you are very likely to get a dog who performs as advertised and isn't junk. If you want a dog with similar capability but a generally more docile maybe not as intense, Pudelpointer.

People make all sorts of arguments about this breed and that. Mostly guided by emotional attachment. Always keep that in mind... I've read a couple suggestions in this thread that expeirenced dog handlers and hunters would find amusing.

I would say that any of the german registered versatile pointers should fit the bill.....
That would include the Drahthaar(gwp), Kurzhaar(gsp), Large and Small Munsterlander and long haired pointer off the top of my head for breeds you could find here in the US.
I have a Drahthaar personally and she is a nice dog, but i would be equally confident in a kurzhaar,munsterlander or longhaired pointer of equal breeding...

tdhusker wrote:. They are easily the most dependable of all breeds when it comes to blood tracking, hunting wounded game with feather or fur. By dependable, I mean you are very likely to get a dog who performs as advertised and isn't junk.
People make all sorts of arguments about this breed and that. Mostly guided by emotional attachment. Always keep that in mind... I've read a couple suggestions in this thread that expeirenced dog handlers and hunters would find amusing.

Must be related to GB somehow.....or atleast drinking the same Kool-Aid!
I would have to say that since I blood track with mine, upland hunt and waterfowl. I am not speaking from emotion. My emotion lies in that I am absolutely tired of the BS "My breed is better then yours"
There is purpose for them all. Munsters are VERY strong blood tracking dogs and that my friend is fact. Look it up, go watch one, educate yourself. SInce I train with a DD group and a DK group I can also say that I have seen nothing that is any "Better" or more "Dependable" in a DD then a KM or a DK or a GSP or a Wirehair. There are haxks with every breed stop selling the others short.

OP just do some research. I can get you in contact with some DD, DK, DL and SM breeders that are trust worthy and will not feed you a line of bull. I can also put you in contact with some great GSP breeders and maybe even a French Brit guy I trust. Just talk to some people and get facts.

People make all sorts of arguments about this breed and that. Mostly guided by emotional attachment. Always keep that in mind... I've read a couple suggestions in this thread that expeirenced dog handlers and hunters would find amusing.[/quote]

Yeah... hardly anyone with any experience on THIS forum... :roll: :roll: :roll:

I say make your own breed... cross a jack russle with a pit bull and a munster drather pointer or somethin like that... and my dad is tougher than your dad too...

[/quote]

Ya, ok. :roll: Here we go. No other breed of dog can come close to a DD and my grandma is the only one that make chocolate cookies.

Do your research, there are all kinds of breeds that can do what you want.[/quote]


The DD is by far the most widely used breed of dog for the type of versatile work the OP described, unless your idea of furred game is bunny rabbits Are there other breeds of dog that may be capable of doing the work? Yes, but they are not very popular in the USA at this time and anything else would be a crap shoot at best.
Munster, get your panties out of a wad :roll: Any time you want to come hunt some Boar, Coyote, Bobcat, Badger, Fox, or Coon along with the birds and ducks you are more than welcome to tag along but would probably leave your dog in the box. :roll: [/quote]
.

And the same might be said whenever you want to run your dog in a trial or out in the big country for birds. There is more than one breed but they are all differnt, not one better than the rest.

Ezzy

I would argue your point because if someone was asking for a breed to run in AA trials I would suggest a pointer from trial lines, if you just want to shoot birds most any pointing breed will do. Maybe a small dog to point birds and I would suggest a Brittany. If they were asking for strictly a water fowl dog I would suggest a chessie or lab, for big game a hound or cur, small furred game a Jagdterrier. If you desire a dog that may be capable of hunting all types of game I would say your best chance would be the DD. I am not breed biased, I have owned and hunted all types of dogs over the years and had a kennel full of specialists, then along came a family and other responsibilities. At that time I had to decide do I want to keep hunting year round on all types of game or keep 2 dogs and just hunt birds and waterfowl. I decided to go from 12 dogs down to just 2-3 dogs, the versatile route and keep hunting. To each their own and I would be glad to show anyone what my dogs can do. Some here have seen them including Snips if you would like to inquire about them.

wems2371 wrote:

Georgia Boy wrote:The DD is by far the most widely used breed of dog for the type of versatile work the OP described, unless your idea of furred game is bunny rabbits Are there other breeds of dog that may be capable of doing the work? Yes, but they are not very popular in the USA at this time and anything else would be a crap shoot at best.
Munster, get your panties out of a wad :roll: Any time you want to come hunt some Boar, Coyote, Bobcat, Badger, Fox, or Coon along with the birds and ducks you are more than welcome to tag along but would probably leave your dog in the box. :roll:

VDD testing includes Boar, Coyote, Bobcat, or Badger? Not sure how I missed seeing that at the tests I've watched. The Fox is dead in the test, and the hardness test can be done on a cat or a coon, and I've seen some small coon used. My own AKC shorthairs could pass a hardness test. While you may be hunting boar, coyote, and badger--how many others do you really think are? The DD owners I know don't, and I imagine that has a lot to do with the nuisance animals in an owners region. Munster's dog has tested VGP and a hardness test, proven himself not any different than any of the Drahthaars I've seen tested, so why would her dog stay in the box? Either the testing means something or it doesn't. :roll:

I really don't think anyone need you to come to their defence but since you did I will answer you questions.
There is a test specifically for Boar, for a dog that has completed this you will see the SJ designation. I have seen some DD that would not pass the HN, most down here from a particular kennel or lines. Go back and read my post, I said very few people in USA are hunting their dogs on anything other than birds, I was referring to DD's. I was one of the first to congratulate Munster on her dogs VGP, any passing score is a great accomplishment and they did well. As far as the testing goes, I too have tested dogs to the highest level so I know what it takes. It is a good indication of the dogs natural ability and in the VGP, train ability of the dog and training ability of the handler. Real hunting experience and ability of a dog is what matters to me. I have seen and hunted with dogs that didn't do real well in the tests that were some of the best hunting dogs I have seen. On the flip side I have seen prize 1 VGP dogs that I wouldn't feed for my own personal use. I cant tell you the number of people that want to come hunt with us talking about their dogs and how good they think they will be on boar or predators, only to have the dogs want nothing at all to do with the hunt. Even funnier are the ones that decide they will just hunt with our dogs and leave theirs in the truck after their first encounter.

.

The DD is by far the most widely used breed of dog for the type of versatile work the OP described, unless your idea of furred game is bunny rabbits Are there other breeds of dog that may be capable of doing the work? Yes, but they are not very popular in the USA at this time and anything else would be a crap shoot at best.
Munster, get your panties out of a wad :roll: Any time you want to come hunt some Boar, Coyote, Bobcat, Badger, Fox, or Coon along with the birds and ducks you are more than welcome to tag along but would probably leave your dog in the box. :roll:

.

Just because a DD is a dime a dozen doesnt mean that it is the most capable dog. Just had my newest imported pups breeder depart from our home back to Germany. What does he use all his FEMALE Munsterlanders for? Hmmmmmmm, Wild Boar and Fox. Not the little piglet boar of the US either.

But, I am not going to have a pissing match with the arrogance of the majority of the DD world because 1. I dont have the right plumbing and 2. it isnt worth it to me.and 3. your post smelled more of a non paid advertiser post then anything informative.

There are several of the V-Dog breeds that will suit the OP posters needs.

This is a bit of a re-hash but you were the one that took offence, go back an re read my post and if you can honestly argue anything I said feel free. I have been to Germany and many countries in Europe and saw how the majority of the big game hunting with dogs is done. In manicured open forests with dogs flushing game for waiting hunters to shoot. Its a little bit different in our thick and not managed forests here, we need dogs to stop game until the hunters can arrive.

Georgia Boy,
The OP asked about versatile breeds, responders all gave hom a list that he could research, till some one with a litter coming post that his DD's were better then all of the others and don't believe what every one is saying.

I just might agree with you if i had to pick, but I would like to hear from you what your dogs can do and I don't want to hear about what my dogs can't do since you have absolutely no knowledge about anyone else's dogs. Since you were the first and only one to take that tact I believe it is you that started the contraversity for no good reason and the rest of us have every right to be upset with your post. So don't try to place blame on the other posters. You made the mistale, so be man enough to apoligize and let it go and hopefully everyone else will too.

There is more than one versatile breed that people use anyway they want and if we give the poster the list that we are all familar with, we have done all he asked for without running anyones dogs down or try to make them all out as inferior.

Ezzy

I will drop it. I have no issues with GB and I am sure he has good dogs. I just get tired of the same old arrogant drum beating. When new people are looking for a V-dog we should just supply them with the tools they need to investigate for themselves.
I have actually found that when some one was looking for a SM and I sold them on the breed, I had ended up wishing that I hadnt. I find out they arent the right people for the breed or visa versa.
So, now, I will give them info and let them investigate for themselves.Just seems to work out better that way.

Georgia Boy wrote: I really don't think anyone need you to come to their defence but since you did I will answer you questions.
There is a test specifically for Boar, for a dog that has completed this you will see the SJ designation. I have seen some DD that would not pass the HN, most down here from a particular kennel or lines. Go back and read my post, I said very few people in USA are hunting their dogs on anything other than birds, I was referring to DD's. I was one of the first to congratulate Munster on her dogs VGP, any passing score is a great accomplishment and they did well. As far as the testing goes, I too have tested dogs to the highest level so I know what it takes. It is a good indication of the dogs natural ability and in the VGP, train ability of the dog and training ability of the handler. Real hunting experience and ability of a dog is what matters to me. I have seen and hunted with dogs that didn't do real well in the tests that were some of the best hunting dogs I have seen. On the flip side I have seen prize 1 VGP dogs that I wouldn't feed for my own personal use. I cant tell you the number of people that want to come hunt with us talking about their dogs and how good they think they will be on boar or predators, only to have the dogs want nothing at all to do with the hunt. Even funnier are the ones that decide they will just hunt with our dogs and leave theirs in the truck after their first encounter.

Nope, Munster is capable of defending herself. She is however a good friend, and I fully get why she responded to the "no other breed comes close." Them there is fighting words and you had to know that when you posted.

No, I did not catch that you were referring to DD's. When you originally posted "What you describe is exactly what the Deutsch - Drahthaar was developed for, no other breed comes close.", it was hard to then see that you were referring to DD's in "very few people in the USA are hunting their dogs on anything other than birds." Those two sentences seem to contradict each other as a breed purchase point since most aren't going to import. At any rate, I can agree with a lot of what you just said above, and respect your honesty about what you've seen. We might get along better than you think.

Here is another way to look at it. What do you plan on hunting the most? You never said what type of fur your going to hunt.

There are dogs bred to be jack of all trades, however there is no breed that excels at all venues. I primarily pheasant hunt with maybe 10 days of duck/goose hunting during the season and on occasion chase some fur, I am unwilling to except the tradeoff of going with an all around dog breed. So when you choose ask yourself where your priorities are, do you need a dog that is great at tracking boars and coyotes and mediocre on ducks or one that is excellent at ducks and mediocre on fur?

ezzy333 wrote:Georgia Boy,
The OP asked about versatile breeds, responders all gave hom a list that he could research, till some one with a litter coming post that his DD's were better then all of the others and don't believe what every one is saying.

I just might agree with you if i had to pick, but I would like to hear from you what your dogs can do and I don't want to hear about what my dogs can't do since you have absolutely no knowledge about anyone else's dogs. Since you were the first and only one to take that tact I believe it is you that started the contraversity for no good reason and the rest of us have every right to be upset with your post. So don't try to place blame on the other posters. You made the mistale, so be man enough to apoligize and let it go and hopefully everyone else will too.

There is more than one versatile breed that people use anyway they want and if we give the poster the list that we are all familar with, we have done all he asked for without running anyones dogs down or try to make them all out as inferior.

Ezzy

Is that really what you took from my post? My God this "bleep" Internet I didn't comment on any other breed or a particular persons dog either. The OP mentioned hunting with hounds, which where I come from means boar, bear, cats, coon, coyote or fox. My point was if you read on wikipedia, or the AKC site about a breed that may have been used for this purpose upon its inception 100 years ago, before being brought to this country and turned into a 'bird dog', or worse yet a show or companion animal you might want to look at dogs that are actually being used for the type of hunting you want to participate in, whatever the breed, DD or otherwise. I can only think of a few people in this country that use their dogs in this manner, myself being one of them. I hope this clears things up and if anyone has any questions please ask

Munsters have not been in the US for 100 years, nor are they AKC registered. They have only been here for a few decades. Most of our dogs are only a generation or so removed from Europe and many are straight up imports. Personally I wish they were turned into bird dogs that would retrieve ducks. I don't know how many use them overseas on big game. I only speak English and was only able to find one video of a munster on boar. It wasn't a catch dog. Mine would run coyotes, bear, bobcat etc when he was young, but I broke him of that, sort of. I have no clue if he would be a good fur and big game dog, furthermore I don't know what a good fur and big game dog is.

I know its hard to determine the context of someone’s post on the internet, but, I did not state that SM have been in USA for 100 years if that’s what you are implying. I am well aware of the breeds history in this country as well as that of its orgin, along with that of many others. I have been fascinated and intrigued, almost obsessed by dogs since early childhood. I have been actively involved with training and hunting with all breeds of dogs for 30+ years. For the last 10 or so years my own personal dogs have been continental or versatile breeds, mainly the DD. Many breeds have been here near that amount of time and are a mere shell of their former selves, about as far removed as you can get. Anyone that says otherwise is either ignorant or just wants to argue.

Georgia Boy wrote:I know its hard to determine the context of someone’s post on the internet, but, I did not state that SM have been in USA for 100 years if that’s what you are implying. I am well aware of the breeds history in this country as well as that of its orgin, along with that of many others. I have been fascinated and intrigued, almost obsessed by dogs since early childhood. I have been actively involved with training and hunting with all breeds of dogs for 30+ years. For the last 10 or so years my own personal dogs have been continental or versatile breeds, mainly the DD. Many breeds have been here near that amount of time and are a mere shell of their former selves, about as far removed as you can get. Anyone that says otherwise is either ignorant or just wants to argue.

Thank you for setting us all straight... :roll: I'm suprised that you could find the time, even in 30 years, to train and hunt ALL breeds of dogs... Please... do us all a favor and write a book or two so we may all be able to reference the resourse of complete and total knowledge of all dogs... :roll: :roll:

All German vdog breeds will fit the bill. I have a DD and GWP (same dogs), 1 PP, a Chessie, and my first ever EP. Out of my dogs no question about it for fur (rabbits, squirrel, coon) the DD/GWP's and PP are great. If i were into boar the Chessie is hands down tougher than the other two and more agressive. If i were doing upland the pointer goes all day and gets results.
My main hunting partner breeds DK's. They are also excellent and i can recommend them in a heartbeat. I find in general they do have a thicker coat, especially under belly.
I know im comparing only my dogs here so take it for what it is. My advice, concentrate on the type of hunting you do 90% of the time and base your breed of that.

SHORTFAT wrote:People make all sorts of arguments about this breed and that. Mostly guided by emotional attachment. Always keep that in mind... I've read a couple suggestions in this thread that expeirenced dog handlers and hunters would find amusing.

Yeah... hardly anyone with any experience on THIS forum... :roll: :roll: :roll:

I say make your own breed... cross a jack russle with a pit bull and a munster drather pointer or somethin like that... and my dad is tougher than your dad too... [/quote]


Well, the next weim I see that will blood track, hunt dead and retrieve like a Draat or even a lab will be the first. And would I want to send a V after a wounded boar?... probably not. But you can draw your own conclusions.

When I am in a circle of "experts" I have noticed that many of them live in urban areas and hunt a few weekends a year. Nothing personal, but I hunt with those same experts for wild birds and game quite a bit. I see many, many dog experts who come hunting with us and some of them actually are. About 1 in 20 I would say. The only ones I've found that actually know what they are talking about are guys who grew up hunting with dogs, usually are farmers, outfitters or have careers that allow for generous amounts of time afield. You can call that some redneck arrogance, I guess. Most guys get very emotionally attached to a specific breed of dog. I've seen guys absolutely swear by a dog breed and how great it is... guys that have owed the breed for 30 years... guys with absolute junk for hunting dogs. In fact, I've seen more of those type hunters than the opposite.

Usually guys who are deep into the dog trial or competition game have some great dogs, need some education on hunting wild phez. I have a great deal of respect for good dog trainers, spend money with them too. But is every dog guy an expert where the rubber meets the road? ... not even close.

DonF wrote:I think if you get a jack of all trades it's gonna be somewhat deficient in several of them. But you might disagree with that depending on how much value you place on dog work. I know of a guy in eastern Colorado that does his bird hunting with his cow dog and is happy as a clam. Climate in the area you hunt will possibly dictate to some degree what will work. Short hair European dogs don't have the undercoat to handle a lot of freezing water. Retriever's are short haired but have a good undercoat. Freezing probably won't bother them in the least. But, hunting hot weather for upland in the fall might. You'll probably hear from people that hunt their versatile on everything and their retriever on everything. For them it works just as the guys cow dog in Colorado. Were i you, I'd decide what I'll do the most in what kind of weather and get a breed that thrives in it and make do in the rest.

good advice don. i love small labs for all around dog and good in home and less hair etc BUT they just cant take heat in fall hunting.
this is why i went with SMALL MUNSTERLANDER this time.

Munster wrote:

Georgia Boy wrote:What you describe is exactly what the Deutsch - Drahthaar was developed for, no other breed comes close.

Ya, ok. :roll: Here we go. No other breed of dog can come close to a DD and my grandma is the only one that make chocolate cookies.

Do your research, there are all kinds of breeds that can do what you want.

hum by ya

quanah labs wrote:LAB is the definition of an all around dog.

they are very close if we were ever to have AAD?but they have areas like cant take HEAT or warm falls we are now seeing in places like pa.
yes, have lab conditioned does help but they just are not built for woods of pa on grouse etc.
they are flushers and some are pointing labs BUT they are still labs.
bred to retrieve and they do it very well.
they will hunt anything but i feel they dont have BIRDNESS that some of other dogs like setters/springers and vd dogs have .

its like i had toby my lab out in fields for pheasants. he could not go into thick stuff after birds. yes he knew they were in there.
along comes springer,small munsterlander, beagle and hunter gets pheasants out of thick stuff. they went home with 4 birds, i got none.

i have seen this for 46 yrs.
no dog is good at every type of hunting.
but lab is very good at it

orbirdhunter wrote:I would say that any of the german registered versatile pointers should fit the bill.....
That would include the Drahthaar(gwp), Kurzhaar(gsp), Large and Small Munsterlander and long haired pointer off the top of my head for breeds you could find here in the US.
I have a Drahthaar personally and she is a nice dog, but i would be equally confident in a kurzhaar,munsterlander or longhaired pointer of equal breeding...

remember, if dog CANNOT enter the thick stuff with briars etc,you are going to miss many birds TODAY on pressured publiclands.

SIZE of dog is problem.i seen more birds killed by springers/beagles/ than just about any breed because THEY go into thick stuff.

nikegundog wrote:There are dogs bred to be jack of all trades, however there is no breed that excels at all venues. I primarily pheasant hunt with maybe 10 days of duck/goose hunting during the season and on occasion chase some fur, I am unwilling to except the tradeoff of going with an all around dog breed. So when you choose ask yourself where your priorities are, do you need a dog that is great at tracking boars and coyotes and mediocre on ducks or one that is excellent at ducks and mediocre on fur?

you are right.
here in pa no.1 dogs for grouse/pheasants is setters/gsp.

now ,no.1 dog to get bird like PHEASANT is SPRINGER/BEAGLE. :roll:
DONT LAUGH. a medium size beagle or as we called them with dad, LONG LEGGED BEAGLE. is biggest secret hunting dog for pheasants that you will ever own. if trained to hunt PHEASANTS.
better than all other breeds, I CAN MAKE THAT STATEMENT as dad used to raise these type of beagles that hunted pheasants.

folks, THEY WERE BAR NONE BEST HUNTER ON PHEASANTS YOU COULD USE. they hunted close,went into thickest briars and would hunt for at least 5 hrs a hunt .hair was short and these beagles had superior noses to find pheasants.
they were no good for grouse.

i guess i should stay on topic,ALL AROUND DOG :roll:

SHORTFAT wrote:

Georgia Boy wrote:I know its hard to determine the context of someone’s post on the internet, but, I did not state that SM have been in USA for 100 years if that’s what you are implying. I am well aware of the breeds history in this country as well as that of its orgin, along with that of many others. I have been fascinated and intrigued, almost obsessed by dogs since early childhood. I have been actively involved with training and hunting with all breeds of dogs for 30+ years. For the last 10 or so years my own personal dogs have been continental or versatile breeds, mainly the DD. Many breeds have been here near that amount of time and are a mere shell of their former selves, about as far removed as you can get. Anyone that says otherwise is either ignorant or just wants to argue.

Thank you for setting us all straight... :roll: I'm suprised that you could find the time, even in 30 years, to train and hunt ALL breeds of dogs... Please... do us all a favor and write a book or two so we may all be able to reference the resourse of complete and total knowledge of all dogs... :roll: :roll:

Are you really that stupid or just an arguementative A hole? I think everyone knows I didnt mean I have hunted or trained with every breed in existence, but rather many different breeds. If there is any other relevant discussion on this thread I will gladly participate but I am done with the foolishness. Also, I have written a couple books which I hope to someday have published. They do not directly pertain to dogs, but rather life experiences, which dogs just happened to be a big part of.

Georgia Boy wrote:

SHORTFAT wrote:

Georgia Boy wrote:I know its hard to determine the context of someone’s post on the internet, but, I did not state that SM have been in USA for 100 years if that’s what you are implying. I am well aware of the breeds history in this country as well as that of its orgin, along with that of many others. I have been fascinated and intrigued, almost obsessed by dogs since early childhood. I have been actively involved with training and hunting with all breeds of dogs for 30+ years. For the last 10 or so years my own personal dogs have been continental or versatile breeds, mainly the DD. Many breeds have been here near that amount of time and are a mere shell of their former selves, about as far removed as you can get. Anyone that says otherwise is either ignorant or just wants to argue.

Thank you for setting us all straight... :roll: I'm suprised that you could find the time, even in 30 years, to train and hunt ALL breeds of dogs... Please... do us all a favor and write a book or two so we may all be able to reference the resourse of complete and total knowledge of all dogs... :roll: :roll:

Are you really that stupid or just an arguementative A hole? I think everyone knows I didnt mean I have hunted or trained with every breed in existence, but rather many different breeds. If there is any other relevant discussion on this thread I will gladly participate but I am done with the foolishness. Also, I have written a couple books which I hope to someday have published. They do not directly pertain to dogs, but rather life experiences, which dogs just happened to be a big part of.

i guess i make statements too not seeing every dog over 46 yrs . :roll: i guess i should say to,OF ALL DOGS I SEEN OVER 46 YRS YEARS ,HERE IS MY OPINION .
lot of dogs VD i never saw until recently.

Georgia Boy wrote:

SHORTFAT wrote:

Georgia Boy wrote:I know its hard to determine the context of someone’s post on the internet, but, I did not state that SM have been in USA for 100 years if that’s what you are implying. I am well aware of the breeds history in this country as well as that of its orgin, along with that of many others. I have been fascinated and intrigued, almost obsessed by dogs since early childhood. I have been actively involved with training and hunting with all breeds of dogs for 30+ years. For the last 10 or so years my own personal dogs have been continental or versatile breeds, mainly the DD. Many breeds have been here near that amount of time and are a mere shell of their former selves, about as far removed as you can get. Anyone that says otherwise is either ignorant or just wants to argue.

Thank you for setting us all straight... :roll: I'm suprised that you could find the time, even in 30 years, to train and hunt ALL breeds of dogs... Please... do us all a favor and write a book or two so we may all be able to reference the resourse of complete and total knowledge of all dogs... :roll: :roll:

Are you really that stupid or just an arguementative A hole? I think everyone knows I didnt mean I have hunted or trained with every breed in existence, but rather many different breeds. If there is any other relevant discussion on this thread I will gladly participate but I am done with the foolishness. Also, I have written a couple books which I hope to someday have published. They do not directly pertain to dogs, but rather life experiences, which dogs just happened to be a big part of.

Is this the same guy telling someone to get their panties out of a wad? Seems like someone woke up with a little PMS.

Cohunter79 wrote:I'm new to waterfowl hunting. I've hunted with hounds before and love seeing a hunting dog work. Are there any breed of bird dogs that are bred for all around hunting. Like waterfowl, upland, and fur? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Do a bit of math and determine %s of waterfowl, upland and fur.
Then choose considering conditions under which you hunt secondly.

Mostly Wildfowl...lab
Mostly Upland...Springer/cocker

Pretty equal mix...DD

Dogs are marketed to sell and that can lead to some mighty interesting claims and assumptions....the previous three tho carry few negatives, work well based upon the work put into them and none will fail to please their owner.
If they do, consider the owner's issues.
If heavier duty models for each use are required then they are available as well.
Choose only after you have hutned behind each...not after Internet research.
Enjoy the search.

Georgia Boy wrote:Are you really that stupid or just an arguementative A hole? I think everyone knows I didnt mean I have hunted or trained with every breed in existence, but rather many different breeds. If there is any other relevant discussion on this thread I will gladly participate but I am done with the foolishness. Also, I have written a couple books which I hope to someday have published. They do not directly pertain to dogs, but rather life experiences, which dogs just happened to be a big part of.

No, I'm not stupid, or argumentative, some may say I'm an a hole, but... I do get sick and tired of know it alls that come on here and make stupid claims and then get offensive when they get the BS flag thrown... :roll: I think most people on this board would agree. If you don't like it when someone disagrees, then don't make outlandish claims...

Georgia Boy wrote: I have been actively involved with training and hunting with all breeds of dogs for 30+ years.

Looks pretty straight forward to me... Let me know when you write your book. (seriously) I will buy a copy.

Yeah OK. I don't make BS claims, anyone is welcome to hunt with my dogs or invite me to hunt with them. I am not the guy that sits behind the keyboard and types BS but only hunts 2 weeks a year. I also train a few client dogs but am more involved with teaching people how to train their dogs by hosting or participating in training days and seminars several times a year.